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#1 2008-08-22 20:07:58

Frankenflute
Member
Registered: 2007-06-07
Posts: 23

How long for Ro Buki?

Hi People

I have heard various recommendations for practicing Ro Buki, including Katsuya Yokoyama recommending 30 minutes non stop, so I wanted to ask how long do players here think is effective for playing long tones? Does it depend on one's level of ability, or should it be longer for a beginner etc.? Would also like to hear what players get out of Ro Buki in every respect...

Cheers

Francis

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#2 2008-08-22 20:55:44

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Teachers suggesting long tones is another instance where silver flute and shakuhachi are similar. Since I'm not learning traditional music on shakuhachi, about all I practice are long tones. Not all on Ro, but since Ro has the juiciest, thickest, satisfying sound, I'd have to say it's my favorite note and gets played the most.  Silver flute teachers tend to suggest giving about equal time to each note when it comes to long tones, but with an emphasis on problem areas, and with the goal being to devote an hour or so per day to running through tone exercises similar to the way you way you'd approach running through scales, ie., you run through them all. So it seems the biggest difference is that shakuhachi concentrates more on Ro when it comes to long tones. However, the one lesson I did take, and since it was to be only one lesson and my goal was to improve my tone, the teacher, Tairaku, showed me a bunch of tone exercises. Those were very similar to Moyse's silver flute tone exercises where the entire range of the instrument was run through. On neither instrument are they all straight long tones, but long tones with various permutations of loudness, vibrato, and in the case of shakuhachi, meri. With all the emphasis placed on long tones in less formal written material, like this forum, it's often overlooked that the idea isn't necessarily to keep blowing a straight long tone, that would be boring and maybe counter-productive. Even sticking to just Ro, there are all kinds of variations that can be played with like attack, vibrato (the head-shaking kind), dynamics, and decay.

Most silver flute teachers I had would say to play at least 1/2 hour of long tones a day, but if I was limited in practice time, to just make sure that most of the practice was long tones. I think that the idea was that you can get your fingers moving again in a short amount of time with some heavy wood-shedding if called in to get something ready to perform, but tone was something that needed work every day to keep up to par. What I found most productive was that when time wasn't an issue to just practice long tones for long enough to feel like I was sounding good (for me that was an hour or so), and then practice the scales and pieces for the remainder of the practice time, which was often just another hour because they sort of just fell into place when I was warmed up well enough tonally.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#3 2008-08-22 21:35:48

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Hi Charles,

Nice to see the word "woodshedding". People here in Oz do not have the vaguest idea what that means and when I suggest it to them give a puzzled expression.

When you say "one hour" on long tone exercises for silver, that's in context of how much playing a day?


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#4 2008-08-22 21:57:27

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Frankenflute wrote:

Hi People

I have heard various recommendations for practicing Ro Buki, including Katsuya Yokoyama recommending 30 minutes non stop, so I wanted to ask how long do players here think is effective for playing long tones? Does it depend on one's level of ability, or should it be longer for a beginner etc.? Would also like to hear what players get out of Ro Buki in every respect...

Francis

Long tones are like going to the gym. For them to be effective, it's important to do long tones EVery day, or you will not progress in terms of developing your 'sound'. Long tones are what help you build your embouchure, breathing efficiency, and doing them will also give you lots of info about the limits of your flute as you progress. ALL wind players benefit by playing 'em.

The thing about long tones is that you are not paying attention to any 'music', but you're attending to what you're doing to the flute, and what it's doing back to you, nothing else. It's a sort of bio-feedback loop between you and the flute: you can work out the best position(s) and pressures for the placement of the 'mouthpiece' against your lips. Very important to get this to be automatic.

Start with Ro-buki, and do that plenty, blowing different dynamic patterns and see how much (or how little) air the flute can take. Also work your way up the flute, but I'd recommend staying in the first octave for quite a while before going into the second and third octaves. Not that you shouldn't go up there, but the foundation for those will come from the first two octaves. Listen, listen, listen to what is happening.

Long tones are simply the most important single thing you can do on the shakuhachi, and it's amazing how much your sound can change after a few weeks of dedicated 'shedding, and how fast you can lose it when you slack off. smile


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#5 2008-08-22 22:07:36

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Yes and it's important to do it at a reasonable strength and volume. As loud as you can without the note breaking up.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#6 2008-08-22 22:22:18

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Tairaku wrote:

Hi Charles,

Nice to see the word "woodshedding". People here in Oz do not have the vaguest idea what that means and when I suggest it to them give a puzzled expression.

That sounds like a mild example of culture shock. I never realized that the term was a regional thing. I guess Aussies are just obnoxious and never took to the woodshed to practice smile

Tairaku wrote:

When you say "one hour" on long tone exercises for silver, that's in context of how much playing a day?

That was when I had the time to fit in 2 hours or more practice a day, usually on days when I didn't spend time with any ensemble rehearsals. The 1/2 hour of tone exercises my teachers suggested was based on either the 1 and 1/2 hour I told them I typically practiced or even if I couldn't get that much in to make sure I got in 1/2 hour on tone exercises. I'm not sure if it was just a late-'70's/early-'80's thing or not, but all teachers I came across then stressed tone in a big way, it almost seemed like it was a new concept. It could have been because that was about the time when Galway took the reins away from Rampal for being the flute player everyone payed attention to. Maybe because Galway has a much bigger tone than Rampal did.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#7 2008-08-22 22:23:35

jdanza
Moderator
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2008-06-19
Posts: 85
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

I would say, in general, play only for as long as you feel like it. Listen to your body signals. You are training muscles and you don't want to overdo it, but barring that, the more the better. I don't really believe in doing it "because you have to" or "because X says so". I do find that Ro Buki is the most fundamental practice and the closest to the Zen essence of the instrument. Once you understand it and internalize it, it becomes as important and fundamental as the morning coffee or tea, or the yoga session.
I often combine it with walking meditation, and it feels very much like I'm cleansing and charging the different rooms in the house. Standing also feels like it allows me to deepen the breath even further than any sitting position. My average is about fifteen to twenty minutes. Eventually your tone will get so strong that it will vibrate the flute and into your hands. Through meditation techniques you can extend that sensation to your whole body/self and further. Tibetan teachers strongly believe that positive thoughts and prayers have a tangible and physical effect on material reality. I have incorporated these ideas into both my drumming and Shakuhachi practice, combining sound production with positive thought or prayers. I believe the sound carries the "vibration", just as the First Nations peoples believed the smoke of sage or sweetgrass did. This type of meditative process , I feel, works best with just one note, even though in playing pieces such as Tamuke, it helps to understand the general intention of it and align yourself with it.
In other words, personally I like to bring together the physical, spiritual and technical aspects of playing all to bear when practicing, and then it naturally extends to my playing and performing in general.
Even though in the practice of silver flute long tones are recommended, I doubt that the spiritual potential of it is emphasized or even conceived of. Shakuhachi is quite a unique and a priceless opportunity for that kind of experience, and, since I do play and love many other types of flutes, I can say with some degree of authority that it's the most powerful (maybe because it is so demanding and therefore requires so much focus).
I hope this helps... Best wishes

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#8 2008-08-22 22:52:04

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

jdanza wrote:

Even though in the practice of silver flute long tones are recommended, I doubt that the spiritual potential of it is emphasized or even conceived of.

It depends on the teacher. Robert Dick has written a few books on tone exercises and although I'm not sure he wrote anything about a spiritual aspect, he would occasionally mention it in person. However, his perspective of this may have came from shakuhachi which he also studied some.

jdanza wrote:

Shakuhachi is quite a unique and a priceless opportunity for that kind of experience, and, since I do play and love many other types of flutes, I can say with some degree of authority that it's the most powerful (maybe because it is so demanding and therefore requires so much focus).

Do you play Turkish ney? That's the instrument that gets my vote for being the most powerful flute. Maybe not to listen to, but for the elusive nature of a fat tone (or any tone at all for a beginner) for the player. It hardly ever happens for me at my level, but when I do get a fat tone on Turkish ney, it feels like everything is right with the universe for that moment. I don't know, but I wonder what the master players who are always in the realm of a fat tone feel. It could have something to do with why the instrument is so closely associated with the Sufi religion. It's commonly explained that it has something to do with separation, which I'd translate to meaning birth and consequently our conscious level of existance.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#9 2008-08-22 23:15:14

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

I love long tones with shakuhachi.
My advice is "The more the better". They will develop your sound A LOT. Somedays I play long notes the whole day, and I can feel the difference.
There are different ways to practice them.

1) just blow by your self.

2)blow with a tuner..try to keep the intonation steady..thats hard in the begining.

3) blow with drone sound.  a)the some pitch. b)different intervals. right now I am doing 5ths.

Another advice, I learned this from my experince , the best thing is just to be blow and keep air stream the some.The some volume F (forte). When you get that down, then work with different volumes.

Happy practice,let us now how it goes.

geni

Last edited by geni (2008-08-22 23:18:30)

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#10 2008-08-23 01:47:35

Frankenflute
Member
Registered: 2007-06-07
Posts: 23

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Wow, tremendous stuff, I'm definitely going to play long tones for as long as I can, which at the moment is not very long Ha! I have picked up from a shakuhachi tips website some variations to practice, such as "bamboo leaf" i.e. starting pianissimo then merging to forte and back to pianissimo again, but it seems to me that I can make a choice whether to focus on a continous, unified tone or not. No doubt there are pieces and styles that require a unified tone character, but it seems like a consensus that the birth of an individual player's particular sound and shakuhachi personality is in Ro Buki.
Is it the trademark of the Kinko school that they focus on a strongly unified, bright tone? That's what I seem to hear when I listen to Goro Sensei...

Many Thanks

Francis

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#11 2008-08-23 09:34:59

Nyogetsu
Kyu Dan Dai Shihan
From: NYC
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 259
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

No one else ever sounded like, or will ever sound like Yamaguchi Goro Sensei.
He was a Shakuhachi player that only comes around once per century!

His sweet sound reflected the sweetness of his heart and spirit.


The magic's in the music and the music's in me...
"Do you believe in Magic"- The Lovin' Spoonful

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#12 2008-08-23 09:43:43

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Frankenflute wrote:

Wow, tremendous stuff, I'm definitely going to play long tones for as long as I can, which at the moment is not very long Ha! I have picked up from a shakuhachi tips website some variations to practice, such as "bamboo leaf" i.e. starting pianissimo then merging to forte and back to pianissimo again, but it seems to me that I can make a choice whether to focus on a continous, unified tone or not. No doubt there are pieces and styles that require a unified tone character, but it seems like a consensus that the birth of an individual player's particular sound and shakuhachi personality is in Ro Buki.
Is it the trademark of the Kinko school that they focus on a strongly unified, bright tone? That's what I seem to hear when I listen to Goro Sensei...

Many Thanks

Francis

The use of Ro-buki has little to do with learning/developing a technique to apply to a particular way of playing, say in Kinko or any other school, IMO. It's more in the service of calisthenics, to develop the muscles and the 'balance' if you will, to play ANYthing. Forget about how it might be used in playing this, or that, at least for the present, just do it, every day at least, for some period of time, and you will see results.

Remember Tairaku's admonition about blowing as forcefully as you can withOUT breaking up the note (lots of repeated pushups...); you will find things you never knew were in you/the flute. One of my teachers, David Wheeler always likes to say, 'Blow from your heels!' Don't do only this forceful blowing (also try the other patterns you saw, as well as soft blowing), but do LOTS of it. As you persist in this you'll often find that the flute will take more and more air (there are limits, of course, and these are what you are trying to find).


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#13 2008-08-23 14:57:26

jdanza
Moderator
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2008-06-19
Posts: 85
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

radi0gnome wrote:

It depends on the teacher. Robert Dick has written a few books on tone exercises and although I'm not sure he wrote anything about a spiritual aspect, he would occasionally mention it in person. However, his perspective of this may have came from shakuhachi which he also studied some.

Hey Charles... I do love Robert Dick's work and I highly recommend it to everybody!.


radi0gnome wrote:

Do you play Turkish ney? That's the instrument that gets my vote for being the most powerful flute. Maybe not to listen to, but for the elusive nature of a fat tone (or any tone at all for a beginner) for the player. It hardly ever happens for me at my level, but when I do get a fat tone on Turkish ney, it feels like everything is right with the universe for that moment. I don't know, but I wonder what the master players who are always in the realm of a fat tone feel. It could have something to do with why the instrument is so closely associated with the Sufi religion. It's commonly explained that it has something to do with separation, which I'd translate to meaning birth and consequently our conscious level of existance.

I do play the Ney and I agree with you... It definitely rivals the Shakuhachi in depth and beauty (and I found it even harder to play!... at least at the beginning), and hearing the masters is a profound experience. Personally, however, I much favor the Shakuhachi... nothing can honk like it ( I love to honk... yoku) smile

Another element that I feel about Ro Buki is... it makes my flutes happy!. It feels like it makes the instrument vibrate deeply and it is well known that the instrument improves with the vibration of extended playing over time. I relate to my flutes as living beings and a good Ro Buki is like a good lovemaking session with your lover smile

Last edited by jdanza (2008-08-23 15:02:57)

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#14 2008-08-23 15:52:14

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Hey Jdanza,

I too am curious about the Ney.  I find myself attracted to that mystical sound it seems to have.  The same is what drew, and continues to draw me to the shakuhachi. 

What type of Ney do you play? the one where you chew on the end (the interdental playing style), or the one with the baspare?  I personally like the look of the one with the baspare.

Do you find that playing one makes you better on the other.  ie. playing ney gives you extra perspective on the shakuhachi, and vice versa?

Last edited by Lorka (2008-08-23 15:53:16)


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#15 2008-08-23 17:22:11

Musgo da Pedra
Member
From: South of Brazil
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 332
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

It's valid to say that is a good idea always play ro buki in the same flute (to achieve certain knowledge of the flute, it's possibilities and how to make these possibilities sound always when we want, under our command)?      I think that play one day in a flute and other day in another (for those who have more than one good flute) can not improve your intimacy with the instrument, only with your body at certain level...   
 
It's just one thought....


Omnia mea mecum porto

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#16 2008-08-23 18:23:14

jdanza
Moderator
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2008-06-19
Posts: 85
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Lorka wrote:

Hey Jdanza,

I too am curious about the Ney.  I find myself attracted to that mystical sound it seems to have.  The same is what drew, and continues to draw me to the shakuhachi. 

What type of Ney do you play? the one where you chew on the end (the interdental playing style), or the one with the baspare?  I personally like the look of the one with the baspare.

Do you find that playing one makes you better on the other.  ie. playing ney gives you extra perspective on the shakuhachi, and vice versa?

Hello Lorka
  I play neither of those. I had a set made for me by a master maker in Iran. The mouthpiece is just plain, like the Egyptian (I would add a photo but I don't know how to do it sad). I believe the "interdental" ones are from Iraq, while the ones with the black mouthpiece (baspare) are Turkish. I do own a bass Turkish style that I love also.
I do not find any connection between Shakuhachi and Ney in the sense that playing one helps with the other, they are totally different beasts... What I do find is a danger, when you play different flutes, of transferring one style to another (like I have heard some Andean Quena players pick up the Shakuhachi, and make sound just like an Andean flute).

Musgo da Pedra wrote:

It's valid to say that is a good idea always play ro buki in the same flute (to achieve certain knowledge of the flute, it's possibilities and how to make these possibilities sound always when we want, under our command)?      I think that play one day in a flute and other day in another (for those who have more than one good flute) can not improve your intimacy with the instrument, only with your body at certain level...   
 
It's just one thought....

If you have more than one kid (I have four), you can still get intimate with all of them!. It just requires more time and commitment. A very zen personality could and would be content with just one flute, but most of us are more "human". I would recommend playing Ro Buki on just one flute a day, but practice pieces on different flutes. That practice is very useful for getting used to adapting your embochure to different mouthpieces quickly.
I own, literally, over three hundred instruments (strings, winds and percussion from around the world), and I'm intimate with every little stone and rattle in my studio. Keep in mind that the girlfriend may not stick around for long, though smile

If you visit my web site you'll see a link for Online Gallery. There's about sixty short video clips of me playing all kinds of instruments, and you can get a small peek at my studio too.

Last edited by jdanza (2008-08-23 18:26:27)

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#17 2008-08-23 18:46:08

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Jdanza,

Just checked out your website.  Loved the gallery of different instruments.  I had never heard of half of them.  Very cool.  Oh, and that's a nice looking Jinashi (2.9?)

Last edited by Lorka (2008-08-23 18:46:46)


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#18 2008-08-23 19:59:56

jdanza
Moderator
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2008-06-19
Posts: 85
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Thanks Lorka
  Yes, it's a 2.9 in F lovingly and masterfully made for me by Perry Yung during his apprenticeship in Japan. The man rocks...
I'm not too happy with the playing in the Shakuhachi clips. I had barely a couple of hours availability of the camera guy to do all of them, so they're a bit rushed. Hopefully I'll upgrade soon and you will not only see the instruments but also hear some decent playing...

Last edited by jdanza (2008-08-23 20:07:28)

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#19 2008-08-23 20:04:22

Musgo da Pedra
Member
From: South of Brazil
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 332
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

Hi Pepe!

Maybe my brain didn't describe what I was feeling when I wrote "intimacy" (and my english is too bad also)...

I have a lot of instruments around the house  and I have a friendship with all of them...but although I can play them and feel really absorbed by the sound I'm playing, in some of these instruments I can not play what comes into my head or what my spirit which to...in this cases I don't feel intimate enough of them... it's like those persons that sometimes we call friends when in reality their are only people that we knew (and sometimes still superficially)... I talk about intimacy on this line of thinking... here in Brasil there is a saying to the thing that we do superficially, without enough knowledge to achive all the potential of something (I really, really know that we can play simple things, without explore the instrument in it's capacity and still have the feel of plenty of life in our spirit, but  I'm talking specifically in a musical thinking [music/spirit/music....ok]) and this saying is something like "half mouth" (+ or -)... I'm not sure if it make sense or if it exist around other countries but it's used like this: "how do you play piano? - half mouth"... 
 
Hey Pepe! You really have some wonderful instrument there... really cool! It must be nice take a breath of culture on your room...

A big hug and peace

Last edited by Musgo da Pedra (2008-08-23 20:07:59)


Omnia mea mecum porto

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#20 2008-08-23 20:16:36

jdanza
Moderator
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2008-06-19
Posts: 85
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

alo irmao Henrique
  I am form Uruguay originally and speak fluent Portuguese, so I understand your "accent" smile
I find the same thing. There are different degrees of "intimacy", and yes, you will end up playing some of them "half-assed". I do lots of studio and film or TV soundtrack work, so often I use the instruments more as pure sound rather than for "parts".
I am, however, pretty serious about understanding the tradition and technique and culture of the instruments I own, and when I fall in love (as with the Shakuhachi, Sitar or Guitar), I'll travel to the country and learn even the language, eat the food, understand the people, etc. (I lived three years in India, three in Japan and many in Europe). I'm a bit of an obsesisve freak, though... as I grow older I have more roots, more reponsibilities and less leisure time, so my traveling is shorter and focused, even tough I still tour a lot.
  Anyway, to get back to the thread, I believe it is beneficial to do Ro Buki on all your flutes. They will present you with different challenges... and they won't have to get jealous smile
I look forward one day to doing Ro Buki together in your marvelous country!. Where are you in Brazil?.

Last edited by jdanza (2008-08-23 20:18:20)

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#21 2008-08-23 22:41:54

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

jdanza wrote:

Lorka wrote:

Hey Jdanza,

I too am curious about the Ney.  I find myself attracted to that mystical sound it seems to have.  The same is what drew, and continues to draw me to the shakuhachi. 

What type of Ney do you play? the one where you chew on the end (the interdental playing style), or the one with the baspare?  I personally like the look of the one with the baspare.

Do you find that playing one makes you better on the other.  ie. playing ney gives you extra perspective on the shakuhachi, and vice versa?

... I believe the "interdental" ones are from Iraq, while the ones with the black mouthpiece (baspare) are Turkish. I do own a bass Turkish style that I love also.
I do not find any connection between Shakuhachi and Ney in the sense that playing one helps with the other, they are totally different beasts...

I'm pretty sure there are Iranian ney with metal mouthpieces that are played interdental-style. Interdental style isn't all that difficult. Once you find someone to show you how, you can be getting fairly consistent sounds within a couple of hours. They'll be far from as refined as they can eventually get, but at least you can have a sound to work with fairly quickly. OTOH, the labial style of playing, how Turkish or Egyptian ney are typically played, you can spend hours on end without getting any hint of a sound. It's so finicky that sometimes when I get bored I try playing out of the left side of my mouth (I usually play right-handed) and even though I already know how to blow I can spend full hours not being able to even get a peep left-handed. Some people say that the mouthpiece (baspare) on the Turkish ney give the ney a different, more pleasant, sound while others say that the baspare is really only for comfort and to be easier on your lips. I prefer Turkish over Egyptian ney for the comfort, and prefer the labial style of playing in general for the sound, but own and fool around with a Persian ney that I play interdental style fairly regularly. I agree with Jdanza that there's not much connection between Shakuhachi and ney for cross-training purposes, or for that matter labial style ney and interdental style ney, but unlike reed instruments working on one won't hurt the other unless you forego practicing one for the other too much. Of course, since they're all flutes requiring a lot of wind there will be some transference in breath technique.

I think that if anyone would want to try out these different flutes it might depend on how much you want to devote to learning the music from the cultures that they come from. Even though all of them, particularly labial style ney, are very difficult to blow, learning the music that is supposed to be played on them is the real challenge and for most it will be impossible to learn them all. It might be a bit of musical masterbation in that there are few who'd like the music I'm making, but personally I opted to forego learning the music of any of the cultures (I tried and gave up on Turkish music, no teacher) and just went for learning to blow and find it very satisfying.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#22 2008-08-24 05:18:03

Frankenflute
Member
Registered: 2007-06-07
Posts: 23

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

I read in a book about a rogue shakuhachi player who used to play it backwards...probably turkish ney technique, I have tried this and it works, although you end up with a funny scale. You can also play shakuhachi like a didjeridu, especially longer ones, even changing finger holes, it's a bit like a freaky clarinet sound. Although the rogue player I was reading about ended up getting his head cut off, so it may not be karmically beneficial if that's the result!

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#23 2008-08-25 19:11:52

Musgo da Pedra
Member
From: South of Brazil
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 332
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

jdanza wrote:

I look forward one day to doing Ro Buki together in your marvelous country!. Where are you in Brazil?.

Olá Pepe!

I was born and I live in Rio Grande do Sul, in the south of Brasil... my state is neighbor of Uruguay and Argentina as you should know...   
 
If one day you come to this side of our beautiful world, let me know and maybe we can really play some notes together! It will be a big pleasure!   
 
A big hug and peace, 
 
Henrique


Omnia mea mecum porto

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#24 2008-08-26 09:33:48

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

I typically try to cycle through several notes/tones 21 times each for about an hour to an hour and a half total.  After several weeks with little improvement, I found that my ability increased a great deal, which is not to say that I have much ability (I had to improve a great deal just to play poorly), after this kind of daily exercise.

Coming at it from an anatomical perspective, if this is to improve the musculature of the embochure, repitions/breaths in excess of fifteen generally tend to improve endurance, as opposed to power/explosion and strength/force.  This would seem to correspond with being able to maintain a steady tone over a certain length of time.  Other techniques may correspond with other types of muscle reactions and may be better served by practicing different repitition patterns.  I've noticed that after a while my lips, face, and chin begin to tremor.  This is a sign that the muscles have been pushed to temporary failure, which is the goal in most physical training.  The good thing is that, relatively speaking, these are very small muscle groups, so their recovery time is very short.  Taking a break to sip some water, tea, or coffee seems to be enough to facilitate recovery and then return to practicing.  The diaphram is quite a bit larger and when it starts to tremor I take a break for a bit longer.  Practicing in the morning and then again in the evening seems to be very good for training the diaphram.

One thing that I read that has also been helpful is to remove the fingers from the holes after each breath and then replace them before the next.  This seems to have helped me "find" the holes more easily as time went on.  This may be quite an elementary concern for many of you, but I am in quite an elementary stage of learning to play.  Again, just speaking from personal experience on this and not intending it as a recomendation.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#25 2008-08-26 09:50:24

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: How long for Ro Buki?

lowonthetotem wrote:

Taking a break to sip some water, tea, or coffee seems to be enough to facilitate recovery and then return to practicing.  The diaphram is quite a bit larger and when it starts to tremor I take a break for a bit longer.  Practicing in the morning and then again in the evening seems to be very good for training the diaphram.

The ingestion of boilermakers is also quite beneficial...


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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