Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Hello Samantha, welcome to the forum and to the world of shakuhachi. Here are my recommendations for extremely good starter flutes. If I had to start all over again these are the people I would contact. Ken LaCosse of Mujitsu Shakuhachi www.mujitsu.com has wonderful chinese madake flutes that are a steal for their quality and sound. Another option that many teachers recommend is the shakuhachi yuu sold by Neal at www.shakuhachiyuu.com This type of flute is recommended for its price, accurate tuning, and relative ease of playing for the beginner; plus the instrument is made of high grade plastic and you don't have to worry about cracking. I would also contact Monty Levenson for his student flutes, www.shakuhachi.com. Monty is a wonderful person and has flutes for every budget. Hope this helps.  All the best in your future playing. Jeff

There are budget flutes, with limitations, made by some good makers, and available on-line. Naturally in bamboo, the best flutes are likely going to be expensive. However both Mujitsu and Perry Yung make good starter flutes in less expensive bamboo, and Tai Hei has some good student flutes, at a step up in price.

The Yuu is an excellent starter flute, espcially if you have trouble with embouchure, initially, as you can get an accessory student mouthpiece, that allows the Yuu to play like a Native American flute, with ease. Then you can at least play with the accessory mouthpiece, while developing your own embouchure.

Mejiro offers Zen-On maple shakuhachi, that are also a step up in price, but are good student flutes, and unlikely to crack.

The price ranges on these items runs from about $100. up to around $400. "Better" flutes begin at around $1000. in bamboo, and go up from there. (Way up!)

My most expensive flute, at this time, was about $380. in a root-end bamboo. It was a good buy, and would normally cost more. I have a couple of other flutes that would normally range between $300. and $400., one in straight bamboo and one in maple wood. I have an Yuu, currently at about $110., and a shakuhachi tuned, "oriental" flute, that plays quite well, that sells for about $80. The mouthpiece is a cross between a xiao (Chinese), and a Quena (South American). Otherwise it plays like a shakuhachi, in tuning. That is available from Erik the Flutemaker. (It is an embouchure flute, just different from a regular shakuhachi.)

There are also some less expensive PVC shakuhachi flutes available from various sources, including Tai Hei, that have some limitations, but play decently as a student flute. Those tend to play a little more like an Anasazi flute, in sound, than a true shakuhachi.

Just depends on what your budget will tolerate, and how traditional you want to be, in formal study.

Rick

You mis-read the post, I think, eb, as I said the accessory mouthpiece would allow for easy playing, during the period of developing an embouchure, not that the mouthpiece would develop the embouchure.

It is, after all, relatively frustrating, when you first begin to play, not to be able to actually play anything, because you don't have a good enough embouchure. The mouthpiece allows you to play easily, when you want to actually play, and then removes just as easily, when you want to work on your embouchure. It was actually developed for school children, to make playing more accessible, while learning.

Rick

This is an interesting dilemma. I tend to look at both sides of this argument with a certain reverence being that both have legitimate concerns. I have played Shakuhachi for a couple years now and the Native American flute for a bit longer, perhaps 3 or 4.

Each person has their own individual needs. Every soul is guided by their own music. So in the end, it is Alice (Samantha) who will need to decide this for herself.

In my own case, I have internal drives to create tremendously strong rhythm. So I play the didgeridoo. A purist would tell me it is folly to play more than one embouchure. Again, that is an individual decision.

I practice the Shakuhachi as often as I can. Many days I simply run up and down the scale to practice the embouchure. I am still building my breath and I still have problems with my lips drying out. So it is rare that I am warmed up enough on the Shakuhachi with still working lips to begin the music I want to play, which in my case is written in my own heart. On certain days the Shakuhachi explodes with music that shocks me. On others, it simply does not work. Coming from a terribly musical family, no matter what instrument you play, this is absolutely normal.

My drive for music is as strong as my drive for rhythm. So I have the Native American flutes with me at all times so when the soul bursts through with a sudden flash of music, I can let it sing with ease without stumbling over my dry lips.

Taking that single moment to let the music command without hindrance is sacred stuff to me. I refuse to allow it to stumble and stop when that need not happen.

One of you would say that I am wrong. One would say that I am right. The reality is, that I do best when I let the creative juices create when the time for creation exists. For me personally, that is VERY correct.

There is no right answer. There is no wrong answer. There is no absolute right or absolute wrong in music, as long as you follow the place that invented music in the first place.

Alice (Samantha), follow your heart.

D.J.

Last edited by D.J. (2007-01-30 21:51:55)

using a recorder mouthpiece with shakuhachi fingering seems a bit silly.
The beauty in the shakuhachi is the variety of tone color and dynamics that is available. Yes, it is very hard to play but there is no real way around that.  The D F G A C "scale" that is easily played on shakuhachi is not particularly interesting. The fascinating aspect of this unique flute is in the meri/kari techniques that involved changing of chin position, breath capactiy and sometimes partial fingerings.

So called "shakuhachi tuned" flutes are basically a gimmick made by people who do not understand what the shakuhachi is at all.

If one wants to play shakuhachi, well, to put it simply, one must have a real shakuhachi. Maple, plastic and sometimes bamboo flutes are inexpensive to get started with. But also, to put it simply, be prepared to not play very well at first.

be very careful buying flutes online! Many makers and dealers take great advantage of buyers who are not familiar with the instrument.

Most wonderful things in life do not come particularly easy. Playing shakuhachi certainly is not easy but like anything else, if you put consistent time into it, and hopefully have a good teacher, you will be playing beautiful music in time.

gambatte ne!

phil

philipgelb wrote:

If one wants to play shakuhachi, well, to put it simply, one must have a real shakuhachi.

Hi Phil,
   I understand and basically agree with the statement that it's kind of silly to make a pentatonic flute with anything else than a shakuhachi mouthpiece and then relate it to a shakuhachi when selling it. However, the statement about having a "real" shakuhachi is a bit confusing. The shakuhachi-yuu from what I understand is made from a casting of a "real" shakuhachi. I guess you could always point to the fact it's not bamboo, but I know there are some flute makers (and physicists too, but I'd tend to believe the makers first) out there who say that the material a flute is made of is close to insignificant. And even when you get to the bamboo instruments, I see that one teacher on this forum says it has to have a particular number of nodes to be a "real" shakuhachi, I'm not sure if he said it had to be root end, but I don't think you could get that many nodes if it wasn't. Also, does it matter if it's jiari or jinashi? That should make a difference in the sound. And of course size would make a difference too. I'd also throw in whether it's one or two pieces, has a natural or some other material utaguchi (is plastic OK there?), and maybe, is it made in Japan? And if so, I'm sure it can't be just any maker to recieve the stamp of approval that it's a "real" shakuhachi. But all that stuff aside, and it almost sounds like a Zen sort of thing, but if you do manage to get a "real" shakuhachi, what if you don't know "real" shakuhachi music and just plan to improvise? Is it "real" shakuhachi sound in that case? Are the less-than-real shakuhachi's OK in that situation?

  Whatever your answers would be to those questions, and they are real questions even if they sound somewhat rhetorical, I think all of these instruments have a place, particularly the inexpensive shakuhachi's, whether they are non-root end bamboo, plastic, or even if they don't look like shakuhachi's.

  About the only place where I'd be inclined to draw the line is replacing the mouthpiece with some other kind, and then selling it as the original instrument, particularly when the change is advertised as being an improvement. The only reason I mention this is I saw an "Egyptian Ney" on Ebay that the maker used the tuning, and made it as a transverse flute with Egyptian decorations that you wouldn't find on the real thing. I find that almost offensive, however, it was cheap and maybe whoever purchased one would be inspired to explore getting and playing the real thing, which should still be relatively inexspensive.

Ok, I see that the "purist" attitude is prevalent in this forum. That is for those who find it useful. There are many other ways to play a flute, rather than in a traditional way, in spite of the Japanese traditional schooling approach to the instrument.

This attitude does cause me to re-think whether I really want to visit Japan or not (at least with a shakuhachi group), as while I certainly don't have any problem with it for those who choose it, I do not wish it imposed upon me, and the reasons I choose to play, just because it is "traditional".

Nor would I follow that process with any other instrument.

(It is interesting to note, that the shakuhachi is actually derived from the xiao, and that it was "modified" in Japan, in the first place.)

I had hoped this would be a nice forum, but I shall have to wait and see.

Rick

the shakuhachi was modified from the xiao, that is correct. It was modified so as to be able to play Japanese music! The xiao is designed to play chinese music. The 6 hole flute with that type of mouthpiece, simply cannot play the colors needed in Japanese music. Thus the shakuhachi was modified from the xiao to emulate the way other Japanese musical instruments sound. I do not have time for an indepth explanation but in general, color and dynamics are an essential part of Japanese music.  Obviously these modifications were not done to simplify playing the xiao but were done out of a musical need to fit the culture.

I am not a purist in any sense of the word and find it rather amusing to be labelled as such. Noone that knows my music would refer to me as such.

But innovations come out of knowledge of a tradition, not from trying to create shortcuts out of ignorance or laziness. The so called sideblown shakuhachi and 5 holed flutes with recorder mouthpieces are a total misnomer. These are designed for people who do not want to put the time into learning how to play a real shakuhachi.  They are created out of, at the most, a surface level understanding of what the shakuhachi is about and how it is constructed.  It may appear that the shakuhachi is designed to play D F G A C. That is only the surface of the instrument. If you listen to honkyoku (the original music for shakuhachi), you will rarely hear that "scale" employed. 

Most of the time, when i hear people play shakuhachi who never studied the traditional music, all they do is play the D F G A C pentatonic mode and they play it with one color and one dynamic. I often wonder why play the instrument if that is all you do. If that is the approach you desire, you are better off playing a recorder type instrument which has little variation in color or dynamics possible.

Of course the shakuhachi can play any kind of music, once you develop technique. But if you are going to play an instrument with such a long history (and some amazing music created during that history!), it only makes sense to get a grasp on the tradition of the instrument as a basis to play your own music. At the same time, as 21st century americans, if we only only play traditional Japanese music, perhaps we are not being honest with ourselves.
But if we pick up an instrument that we do not understand and start "innovating" the mouthpiece, making side blown versions, etc. it is hard to see this as being anything but a lazy and dishonest gimmick.

The shakuhachi is a notoriously difficult instrument to play, let alone play well. We all have to accept that. And if we want to learn how to play it, we have to spend a great deal of time studying.  The study should be an enjoyable process!  Learning music is great fun and of course, one is not going to sound all that good in the beginning.

phil

Bamboo, plastic, metal,
  fippled, unfippled,
      0, 5, 7 holes,
         tuned, untuned:
all are different, but when blown
    they become the same sound
as the universe.

Apologies to Ikkyu.

-Darren.

My goodness, I never imagined my post would end up sparking such impassioned debate!

Thanks for the advice on flutes for beginners.  I now have a Yuu and I love it.  It's kind of strange, but I'll be sitting in class or doing something else and get a hunger-like longing to go pick it up and play it.  I am very happy to say that I can get a sound out of it every time I pick it up, and am looking forward to getting to the point where I can do something with that sound!  I have a ways to go. 
Any suggestions for learning materials?

Samantha

philipgelb wrote:

I am not a purist in any sense of the word and find it rather amusing to be labelled as such. Noone that knows my music would refer to me as such.

phil

Philip Gelb--hide-bound traditionalist?

Perhaps the best example we could have that the forum might be informative and it might be entertaining, but not necessarily both at the same time.

Tairaku wrote:

radi0gnome wrote:

I guess you could always point to the fact it's not bamboo, but I know there are some flute makers (and physicists too, but I'd tend to believe the makers first) out there who say that the material a flute is made of is close to insignificant.

Yeah they say that, but they are wrong.

Do you think so? It might depend some on the instrument. I haven't heard a plastic didjeridoo that sounds like a eucalyptus yet, but I'm perfectly satisfied with my plastic baroque and Irish flutes even though I thought I noticed a difference in sound between the types of wood for the same model flute by a particular Irish flute maker. That was the flutemaker who argued with me that the type of wood didn't make a difference in the sound. I'm not sure if it was my imagination or not. The sample of Gould playing the shakuhachi-yuu on the yuu website doesn't sound bad at all, my ears can't hear that it's plastic. As far as silver concert flutes, teachers typically say that if you want to pay less, sacrifice the silver for the body but make sure to get a silver head joint. I personally don't hear or feel much of a difference without the silver headjoint there either.

For Shakuhachi's, I'd think that if there is any validity to the the material closer to the edge being more important, that plastic utaguchi's would be something to avoid. I know that for Turkish ney the plastic baspar (that mushroom-shaped mouthpiece) is considered to be way inferior and water buffalo horn is the only way to go.         

Some of it might depend on the player too, I can't hear that Charlie Parker is playing one of those WWII plastic altos on the historic Massey hall album, but the only time I ever tried one of those instruments it was awful, you could feel it buzz in your hands.