Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

If it works, don't fix it.

eB

I just ordered my first shakuhachi - an old Tozan Jinashi from Perry Yung. There was some talk about the fact that this is a 1.7 size, 20 " length X 1 1/4" diameter and its keyed to Eb. He said its fine for solo work but for ensemble and playing with others I might want to look into a the 1.8 which is keyed to more of a western standard.  That part is fine with me because I would take a year or so of solo playing anyway in order to develop a technique then possibly move on up to a more refined instrument. This piece came at a very good price for a beginning player.
    I was reading the posts on placement of the lips and the position of the embouchure and was wondering about the embouchure that I have developed over the years playing silver flutes. Will it serve me well on the shakuhachi or must I learn to develop it in other ways more suitable to bamboo and the rather larger opening? The same for breathing. I am supposing that I may use a very similar technique that has worked so well for me over the years. Any comments are appreciated - and if someone could address the pros and cons of the 1.7 vs. the 1.8 please do so. ...............Gracie ragazzi..........PD

Last edited by de_Genova (2007-01-09 11:12:48)

JF Lagrost     "Both embouchure and breathing techniques you've developped on silver flute will be very useful on shakuhachi. But only for technique : it doesn't mean that you should play in the same style of sound, and there are nevertheless some differences between the two embouchures?

Thanks for the comments.  Its good to know that these techniques are able to be carried over to the Shakuhachi. Actually I have been developing a rather interesting shakuhachi tone on one of my flutes. It so happens that its the beginner Yamaha that I have always kept because I like it so much, and not one of the more so-called 'sophisticated' (and quite expensive) models that I own. The Yamaha has a very 'forgiving' embouchure and is given to some interesting tonal variations, especially in the lower register. Its the horn I use when playing Jazz and standards and it has a nice 'rough edge' to it. So in a certain sense I have a sort of a head start on the Bamboo.  But I do realize the difference in style and approach from that of silver to bamboo. PD

Last edited by de_Genova (2007-01-10 11:05:46)

de_Genova wrote:

I was reading the posts on placement of the lips and the position of the embouchure and was wondering about the embouchure that I have developed over the years playing silver flutes. Will it serve me well on the shakuhachi or must I learn to develop it in other ways more suitable to bamboo and the rather larger opening? The same for breathing. I am supposing that I may use a very similar technique that has worked so well for me over the years.

Considering the difficulty most beginners say they experience I figure that my background on silver flute must have helped with shakuhachi because I didn't find it all that difficult. The embouchure of course is different, but it's still centered and the lip opening is a small oval just like silver flute. I also think you'll find that playing shakuhachi will help your silver flute playing, I know I did. As far as breathing, I don't know about traditional Japanese music, but for just blowing, the techniques used for silver flute work fine. Be aware that even with silver flute different teachers teach breathing differently, but I think that as long as they aren't  just plain wrong the different techniques should all work. You might want to talk to Geni, he's on this forum, and when I went to his website I found that he is an extremely good flute player.

Alas, I've never eaten, nor seen (as far as I know), millet. Is it a grain or rice-like?

-E

Thanks for the helpful posts regarding lips and air. As for the image of the millet seed - while reading the post I couldn't help but to recall the first thing my first teacher said to me about getting  a good sound out. In my early confusion I thought he said to imagine firing a grape out of your mouth, which to me seemed rather strange. But what he actually meant was for me to -- " .  .  .Imagine myself standing at a fence and that there is a grape perched on top. Now imagine knocking the grape off of the fence using only your mouth and a stream of air. You know that hollering with a wide open mouth probably won't do it, right? So purse the lips in such a way as to direct a narrow stream of air then place your tongue on the back of your top teeth and 'shoot' the stream of air through your lips; firing the air-stream towards the center of the grape like a bullet. The smaller and rounder the opening between the lips the surer the shot will be. In some way or another, with slight variations, this will apply to every note you play." .  .  .   end quote. . .  I guess I learned something from it all but I never did acquire the 'round' opening he spoke of -- always an oval. ..............PD

Last edited by de_Genova (2007-01-11 09:42:31)

Chris Moran wrote:

This photo should be 1:1 scale (actual size).

That did it.  I've finally found a way to make my hopelessly-large embouchure opening the size of a millet grain...  I am viewing your millet photo on a 32" monitor.  Finally!  The size of my embouchure opening is correct! 

Just kidding.  My teacher, Alcvin Ramos, also uses the millet analogy.  Spitting (well, visualizing spitting) little millet seeds from the -wet- part of the lips is something he suggests.  Exposing the wet, inner part of relaxed lips without forcefully jutting them out might be something to practice.  We also do lip/mouth/face stretches and limbering before a lesson.

I'm just a beginner but I think any kind of unusual lip awareness/movement practices (or other wind/brass backgrounds) are probably beneficial.  We have so many muscles and nerve endings in that area that  the potential for great fitness and control is there.  But the movements and expressions of "normal" life don't demand much positional/muscular/relaxation awareness in that area, so it takes a while to build the muscles and then the brain signals and memory for them.

-Darren.

Chris Moran wrote:

Millet is bird seed. Rather, I should say, millet is used as bird seed.

The bird seed I used to buy was primarily hemp seeds. Never sprouted, though.

Could someone here please impart a little information regarding the recent selection of my first shakuhachi, an old Tozan Jinashi 1.7. Perry Yung, the seller, advises a 1.8 sometime down the road, and some more recent advice along those lines from Ray Brooks indicates that I may not have made the correct choice, (quote.  .  .  "if you wish to follow music on CD's or take lessons you will need a 1.8." end quote  .  .  .   although I still think my choice was fine since I am pretty much a solitary player at the moment. Does anyone have an opinion on this? Will this choice have a negative impact on future technique in terms of tone quality etc., as regards future ensemble playing? One of my primary interests here it find out about the advantages and or disadvantages of the 1.7 vs the 1.8.  Thank you PD

Last edited by de_Genova (2007-01-12 03:13:14)

radi0gnome wrote:

He wrote a book around 1980 on  flute extended techniques and multiphonics, I highly recommend the book if you can still find it anywhere.

I just looked and found that it's available on Amazon. It says 1986, but I'm 100% sure it was around 1980 when it was first written. It might be a bit of overkill for shakuhachi because some of the thing are specific to silver flute, but the whistle tones (he calls them whisper tones) are covered, and so are harmonics which I forgot about but are one of the first things I try when I pick up a new flute.

http://www.amazon.com/Development-Throu … mp;s=books

de_Genova wrote:

Could someone here please impart a little information regarding the recent selection of my first shakuhachi, an old Tozan Jinashi 1.7. Perry Yung, the seller, advises a 1.8 sometime down the road, and some more recent advice along those lines from Ray Brooks indicates that I may not have made the correct choice, (quote.  .  .  "if you wish to follow music on CD's or take lessons you will need a 1.8." end quote  .  .  .   although I still think my choice was fine since I am pretty much a solitary player at the moment. Does anyone have an opinion on this? Will this choice have a negative impact on future technique in terms of tone quality etc., as regards future ensemble playing? One of my primary interests here it find out about the advantages and or disadvantages of the 1.7 vs the 1.8.  Thank you PD

There are no inherent disadvantages in having a 1.7 vs. a 1.8 flute; the playing techniques are the same in either case,
although every shakuhachi has its own 'personality': strengths and/or weaknesses that one must accomodate.

The issue that Ray Brooks was referring to is that almost all the teaching materials and instruction for traditional
shakuhachi music is done with a 1.8, so you're likely to have difficulties playing along with a teacher--your 1.7,
if it's in proper tune, is 1/2 step above a 1.8.

There is also software available which enables you to change the pitch of recorded music to match your flute.
It will also change the speed, or both pitch and speed at the same time, and also allows looping of any size segment
of the piece you're working on.

Available at www.ronimusic.com. It's called Amazing Slow Downer. I've used it for years, and it's a fine piece of software, regularly updated.

eB