Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

greenbamboo wrote:

I would like to learn flutter tonguing, what advice you think is appropriate for me?

Rgs
greenbamboo

Thanks for inaugurating the "Ask the pro" section with this excellent question. In shakuhachi playing this technique is called "tamane".

There are two ways to produce the effect. One is by flutter tongueing. Everybody has a different mouth, so I can only tell you how I do it. I place my tongue against the roof of my mouth and then strongly expel air from my diaphragm while making a "hhhhrrrrr" sound. I don't know if that's helpful.

The other method is by vibrating the glottis (I think that's what it's called, any doctors in here?) which is the thing that vibrates when you gargle for example. I can't help you further with this technique, because I can't do it.

Some people say every shakuhachi player can only do one or the other of these techniques. However one teacher I spoke to said good shakuhachi players can produce both techniques at will.  I must not be good!

Hopefully some of our other pro moderators will have their own comments to add.

Hi,

I think Ive found a nice instruction video for tamane(correct me!).

http://www.humanbeatbox.com/oscillation … icleid/117

There are shown other nice techniques that might be interesting for a rather wild shakuhachi experiments.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

radi0gnome wrote:

Does anyone else have a problem with this technique loosening up a lot of phlegm?

Hey radi0gnome... on the topic of phlegm...  (*there's* a weird segue...)   Try a sinus cavity flush if you never have before.  Many swear by the regime, for cure and prevention.  Both the scientific and yogic types recognize the benefits of this type of cleansing, even daily. 

An MD or ENT will call this an isotonic sinus rinse.  (You can buy or make your apparatus for pennies.)

Yoga folks call it jala neti.  (With the associated ceramic neti pots.)

Mmmm.  Salty.  Actually NaCl + NaHCO3.

Feels great.  Easier breathing, cleans things up, removes allergens, bacteria, excess crud, etc.  DISCLAIMER...  I'm not a doctor.  This is not medical advice.  If your head >explodes<, it wasn't my fault.

-Darren.

In Australia we have a great product called "Frequent Flyer" which is a nasal spray. I use it all the time.

http://www.fess.com.au/products.6

dstone wrote:

radi0gnome wrote:

Does anyone else have a problem with this technique loosening up a lot of phlegm?

Hey radi0gnome... on the topic of phlegm...  (*there's* a weird segue...)   Try a sinus cavity flush if you never have before...

Hmmm... Does this mean I'm the only one who ends up loosening phlegm with this shakuhachi technique? I'm not sure the phlegm is really being loosened. What's more likely to be going on is that my body is creating the phlegm when practicing this technique in an effort to protect my throat from the abuse I'm giving it. I'm sure the uvula wasn't ever intended to bounce against/rub the back of the tongue. If that's the case, the nasal flush won't help. BTW, I've tried this technique before with the same results, I've never practiced it to get good at it because of the phlegm/abuse problem.

Also, almost every singer knows that a good way to avoid phlegm is to avoid milk and shouting. Maybe this shakuhachi technique should be added to the list.

I'm not too familiar with the instrument yet, but if you're trying to achieve any matter of tongue technique or overtone buzz (I've terrorised fellow musicians back in concert band on the tuba with this, which creates a double tone or "singing" quality into the instrument to create a really weird buzzy vibrato effect) try the following:

Perry Yung forwarded me to the "Wisdom of Puh".

I suppose this would be the "Wisdom of "H-u-r" or "H-b-r".

To flutter your tongue, relax your lips; make sure they're not fully closed but not pursed too tight. Basically, if you're thinking about it, you're too tense. From your chest, force air through your throat and into your mouth. Your tongue should be slightly raised in your mouth but not touching the roof. The "Hhhhh" will force a steady stream of air. As you pronounce an R with your tongue, it will begin to oscillate quickly. This is fluttering your tongue (to my understanding). Note that when forcing the "H" stream of air, the closest vowel you should be concerned with is "u", not "a". Do not try this technique with "H-a-r" because your tongue will not modulate properly and the resonance of your tongue will be delayed.

(I don't think i've ever described anything in such detail; bear with me )

To create a resonant two tone buzz with your mouth (Playing the instrument with the regular stream of air and adding harmonic and tonal qualities through "singing" into the instrument that is being played all at once) would be the same as "H-u-r" tongue technique, but when the H stream of air comes up your throat into your mouth, pronounce a slight B which should begin to oscillate your lips, following through with a steady R to sustain the note. Because your lips are larger and can modulate more than your tongue, start using other vowels and consonants… aside from A.

I envision the pronunciation of A as playing with an elastic band. It kind of rends your embouchure vulnerable (in my case at least)… it takes a bit more control.

Hope this helps! (Or doesn't confuse anyone immensely

Scott,

I originally figured out tamane with whistling, after I'd heard it used to rather creepy effect in a song. I think the slight back pressure from the lips when whistling will help in finding the sweet spot, and it's certainly easiest to work on it without a flute in your mouth. I do need a bit of moisture in my throat to do it to any degree of reliability.

On the other hand I'm physically incapable of tabane. 


That resonant tone thing reminds me - having experimented with overtone singing I know that the mouth cavity can be tuned to different frequencies. Would this ability have any bearing on shakuhachi playing? Is it perhaps an ingredient in the ultimate B-52 ro? Humming one tone while blowing another is one thing, but suppose you adjusted the mouth to resonate with the same tone you blow?

Last edited by Windom (2008-01-03 12:24:31)

radi0gnome wrote:

Vevolis wrote:

...pronounce a slight B which should begin to oscillate your lips, following through with a steady R to sustain the note. Because your lips are larger and can modulate more than your tongue, start using other vowels and consonants… aside from A.

I envision the pronunciation of A as playing with an elastic band. It kind of rends your embouchure vulnerable (in my case at least)… it takes a bit more control.


Scott,

I think I followed you up to this point, even though I'm unsure about whether the lip buzz is possible on shakuhachi (I can't do it, but that doesn't mean it's not possible). But there's one thing that's inherently unclear about this. The "B" part is fairly clear, because you touch your lips together, let them separate and pronounce an "EEEEE" vowel to pronounce a "B". I think it's the touching the lips together part that you're getting at here. The "A" is the part that's unclear because to pronounce an "A" what is actually done is pronouncing an "eh" and then ending it with an "EEEEE". Something similar happens with "I" in that it is pronounced "ah" then "EEEEE". "U" is also somewhat similar but backwards, starting with "EEEEEE" and ending with an "oooo" sound (as in "moon").

Now when I get all this spit wiped of my monitor I read some more

I suspect I was thinking of "A" as "Aye" as opposed to "eh" which in your case... actually works. Thanks! The mouth is a peculiar instrument.

A sort of a backwards snoring, yes.