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#1 2007-03-30 12:22:16

Bogert
Member
From: Amagasaki-shi, Hyogo-ken
Registered: 2005-12-05
Posts: 203

san no u, and ha problem.

Hello All,
   I'm making a 2.1 slightly wide-bore jinashi.  All the fingerings and alternate fingerings work fine except the various kan ha notes don't work right.  Also i doesn't work at all.  I'm sure I can figure it out sooner or later, but if anyone has some tips for that I would be appreciative.  Besides that the flute plays beautifully, but those are some major problems.

Chris

Last edited by Bogert (2007-03-30 16:25:02)


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#2 2007-03-30 18:53:25

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: san no u, and ha problem.

Bogert wrote:

Hello All,
   I'm making a 2.1 slightly wide-bore jinashi.  All the fingerings and alternate fingerings work fine except the various kan ha notes don't work right.  Also i doesn't work at all.  I'm sure I can figure it out sooner or later, but if anyone has some tips for that I would be appreciative.  Besides that the flute plays beautifully, but those are some major problems.

Chris

Chris,

There are often upper second register issues with wider bore flutes. It's hard to know exactly without seeing and playing the flute, but here are the first things I would check:

Are the holes big enough and undercut enough? Wider bores often require larger, undercut holes to play the higher notes well.

Are the two tonic fingerings the same pitch? (All holes covered first and second register) If not, it suggests that the bore halves are unbalanced which requires major filling or subtraction. If they are in pitch, I would check all the quarter point critical areas for the problem notes. (Do you have diagrams of these areas? John Neptune has one somewhere on the net. Navaching and my shakuhachi making PDF have them as well.)  These areas often need adjustments on wider bore shakuhachi.

It could be a number of things, but these are the first things I would look for.

Good luck!

Ken

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#3 2007-03-30 20:36:00

Bogert
Member
From: Amagasaki-shi, Hyogo-ken
Registered: 2005-12-05
Posts: 203

Re: san no u, and ha problem.

Got it.  I'll make a check list and see what is what.  I have a couple ideas for what would work.  Guess I'll find out.
Thanks again.

Chris

**update: got them all to play.  Still doing more fine-tuning.  U in kan squeaks something fierce if I shade the first hole though; otherwise it plays fine.  Also kan i plays but is kinda picky sometimes. 

While I'm at it, how big are the finger holes generally for fairly wide-bore flutes?  Not Taimu wide, but getting towards that size bore.  I'm working on a flute with a fellow who is also on this forum.  I'm gonna do the basics and let him take over (I think that's the plan). Thanks for all the help.

Last edited by Bogert (2007-03-30 22:41:49)


理趣経百字の偈
菩薩勝慧者 乃至尽生死 恒作衆生利 而不趣涅槃 般若及方便 智度悉加持 諸法及諸有    一切皆清浄 欲等調世間 令得浄除故 
有頂及悪趣 調伏尽諸有 如蓮体本染 不為垢所染    諸欲性亦然 不染利群生 大欲得清浄 大安楽富饒 三界得自在 能作堅固利

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#4 2007-03-31 13:14:11

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: san no u, and ha problem.

Bogert wrote:

While I'm at it, how big are the finger holes generally for fairly wide-bore flutes?  Not Taimu wide, but getting towards that size bore.  I'm working on a flute with a fellow who is also on this forum.  I'm gonna do the basics and let him take over (I think that's the plan). Thanks for all the help.

For me, the hole size depends on what voice the flute has. I base this on the personality of the tonic before the holes are drilled. If it has an introverted, inward or sweet tone, I might make the holes relatively smaller than usual. That is, if it doesn't mess up the upper second octave. For my tastes, wider bore flutes often favor a larger hole size choice. The smallest holes I use are usually around 10 to 11 mm. The biggest (for Taimu) around 15 or 16 mm. So, I suppose somewhere in the middle for semi-wide shakuhachi.

Keep in mind that these hole size decisions are based on my tastes and my response to what the bamboo offers. There is certainly a window of relativity within these specs.

Best of luck,

Ken

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#5 2007-04-02 21:20:17

Bogert
Member
From: Amagasaki-shi, Hyogo-ken
Registered: 2005-12-05
Posts: 203

Re: san no u, and ha problem.

Thanks Ken,
    Any ideas on how to stengthen U in kan?  San no U works fine, but U works not so good.  ???? 

Chris


理趣経百字の偈
菩薩勝慧者 乃至尽生死 恒作衆生利 而不趣涅槃 般若及方便 智度悉加持 諸法及諸有    一切皆清浄 欲等調世間 令得浄除故 
有頂及悪趣 調伏尽諸有 如蓮体本染 不為垢所染    諸欲性亦然 不染利群生 大欲得清浄 大安楽富饒 三界得自在 能作堅固利

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#6 2007-04-10 14:27:59

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: san no u, and ha problem.

Bogert wrote:

Any ideas on how to stengthen U in kan?  San no U works fine, but U works not so good.  ???? 

Chris

Chris,

Sorry for the delay. I missed your last post.

One thing you could do would be to compare these fingerings played in the second register:

#1  Holes 5 and 4 closed, hole 3 half closed. Played meri.
#2  Holes 5 and 4 closed, hole 1 half closed. Played meri.
#3  Holes 5, 4 and 2 closed. Played meri.

Theoretically, these fingerings play the same note. However, on wider bore shakuhachi
there can be a slight difference in pitch and strength. If there is a big difference, or if none
of these fingerings play with strength, then some adjustment will be needed. Again, we're
probably talking about 1/4 points in the bore.

Before making any permanent changes in the bore it's always a good idea to make as
full an assessment as possible of all problems. Then, you can try to solve multiple problems
with little intrusion. Not always easy, but very satisfying when it works!

I hope this helps.

Ken

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#7 2007-04-10 15:13:52

Bogert
Member
From: Amagasaki-shi, Hyogo-ken
Registered: 2005-12-05
Posts: 203

Re: san no u, and ha problem.

Thanks, I'll do that. 

Chris


理趣経百字の偈
菩薩勝慧者 乃至尽生死 恒作衆生利 而不趣涅槃 般若及方便 智度悉加持 諸法及諸有    一切皆清浄 欲等調世間 令得浄除故 
有頂及悪趣 調伏尽諸有 如蓮体本染 不為垢所染    諸欲性亦然 不染利群生 大欲得清浄 大安楽富饒 三界得自在 能作堅固利

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