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#1 2007-05-10 19:05:16

pagacks
Troll
From: Oxnard, California
Registered: 2007-04-24
Posts: 28

Dark Tone

I do not know how easily this can be answered. It's about dark tone which is very desirable in a shakuhachi, for me at least. A dark tone to my ears  is one that sounds like it's coming from a cave, vibrates more internally and that has a unique character.

1. What factors cause the production of a dark tone?
2. What flutemaking tips can be shared to come out more with a dark tone?

For example in another post I seem to have stumbled on discovering (I may be wrong) the jutting bit of membrane below the utaguchi as contributing to a dark tone.

Thanks

WARNING!! THIS TROLL IS AN UNETHICAL SELF-PROMOTER OF A POOR SHAKUHACHI PRODUCT!!

Last edited by pagacks (2007-05-10 19:15:30)

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#2 2007-05-10 19:15:14

Moran from Planet X
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From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
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Re: Dark Tone

pagacks wrote:

It's about dark tone which is very desirable in a shakuhachi, for me at least.

I am still unclear as to what constitutes a 'dark' tone in shakuhachi. (Besides being the opposite of 'bright' which is another term interpreted several different ways.)

Recorded examples?


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#3 2007-05-10 19:21:20

pagacks
Troll
From: Oxnard, California
Registered: 2007-04-24
Posts: 28

Re: Dark Tone

Hi Chris,

    Thanks for your quick reply. I included a definition in my subsequent edit and came upon your reply just now.
    On second thought is the dark tone produceable by a specific player? Or is it caused more by the flute? or both?
I myself would like to become a player that can produce at will this kind of tone. And be a maker that can produce at will this kind of a shakuhachi. In fact this is my predominating objective in my flutemaking. To make shakuhachi that have a dark tone.
    This question thus can be posted both in flutemaking as well as in techniques.

WARNING!! THIS TROLL IS AN UNETHICAL SELF-PROMOTER OF A POOR SHAKUHACHI PRODUCT!!

Last edited by pagacks (2007-05-10 20:17:11)

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#4 2007-05-10 20:24:04

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Dark Tone

Chris Moran wrote:

pagacks wrote:

It's about dark tone which is very desirable in a shakuhachi, for me at least.

I am still unclear as to what constitutes a 'dark' tone in shakuhachi. (Besides being the opposite of 'bright' which is another term interpreted several different ways.)

Of course "bright" and "dark" are fuzzy measurements of something quite fuzzy already (psychoacoustics) but I think quantifying them a bit is important.

I think if you look at a spectral plot of a tone and see lot of lower harmonics (e.g. perhaps lots of 2nd harmonic), it's likely to be described as "dark", versus a plot of a tone that shows lots of sound energy still in the 4th and higher harmonics which is more likely to be described as "bright".  This is my theory, nothing else.

I'm sure messy partials factor in a lot too, but I have no theory for that.

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#5 2007-05-10 23:07:48

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
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Re: Dark Tone

Hi,

pagacks wrote:

I do not know how easily this can be answered. It's about dark tone which is very desirable in a shakuhachi, for me at least. A dark tone to my ears  is one that sounds like it's coming from a cave, vibrates more internally and that has a unique character.

One of the most difficult things I do involves talking about sound. I have conversations with players about what they like and don't like and we are always searching for the right words.  Words are not adequate in describing sound. I think great dancers describe sound better with their bodies.

1. What factors cause the production of a dark tone?

A dark player and a friendly flute.


2. What flutemaking tips can be shared to come out more with a dark tone?

I agree with Darren in thinking that a dark note is one with less harmonics. I add to that, less volume.  Meri notes are often described as having dark colors. Some things you can do to a shakuhachi to make it less dynamic: leave the bore natural (no lacquer), wider utaguchi with a more perpendicular angle (smaller dip), and rounded finger hole edges.

For example in another post I seem to have stumbled on discovering (I may be wrong) the jutting bit of membrane below the utaguchi as contributing to a dark tone.

Thanks

To me, that makes the flute less responsive. Perhaps that equates dark to some cool

Peace, Perry


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

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#6 2007-05-11 08:20:19

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: Dark Tone

Yungflutes wrote:

I add to that, less volume.  Meri notes are often described as having dark colors.

Although I entirely agree with that meri notes are what I think could be described as "dark", I don't necessarily think that volume has to be low. For example, U  is typically rather dark in tone even though it doesn't necessarily lose much in volume to most kari notes.

I've also wondered if tuning affects the feeling of darkness/brightness. Although I have tried only a limited number of flutes I always found that flutes tuned closer to a flat note tend to sound darker than the others. I'm not sure if this applies to all lengths and base notes. Still, if one wants to make a flute that sounds dark and specialize in that, personally I would make a whole bunch of flutes from plastic at different lengths and find the length that produces the best results. Tuning them slightly flat overally might be a good bet as well.

One thing that I efel contributes to the darkness of the sound is what most makers tend to call "hollow sound". You know, the kind of sound that makes you think that the pipe is actually much larger than it really is. This kind of sound feels more dark to me, although this is naturally different for each listener.

For a really good example of what I consider to be dark sound, listen to Kojo no Tsuki by Tairaku. It's either on Ryoanji or Taimu. I know the piece well and play it often on different flutes. Although the piece has that sad and mysterious sound typical to japanese pieces, his version is not only sad but actually very dark and moody. There are some very interesting techniques used, such as stretching the Tsu Meri no Kan in the Ri->Ro->Tsu Meri part to make it feel like the sound tries to desperately pull itself up. I really love that part and I just can't get it sound that way myself. It sounds like the sound - not the player - is struggling to get just a bit higher only to fall down again a moment later. This piece is what I always play to people when the topic of darkness comes up. It just sums things up perfectly.

Anyway, this is a very interesting topic that I also think about often. I have a feeling that the original poster is after a similar sound that I'm also trying to find. I'd love to hear what others have to say.

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#7 2007-05-11 10:28:31

mrosenlof
Member
From: Louisville Colorado USA
Registered: 2006-03-01
Posts: 82

Re: Dark Tone

Perry said: ((A dark player and a friendly flute.))

I think this is key here.  I recently finished up 6 weeks of flute searching and in the course of this, my teacher (David Wheeler) and I played a lot of flutes.  I commented several times that whatever David played, he sounded like David Wheeler. 

-mike


Mike Rosenlof

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#8 2007-05-11 12:42:55

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: Dark Tone

pagacks wrote:

I do not know how easily this can be answered. It's about dark tone which is very desirable in a shakuhachi, for me at least. A dark tone to my ears  is one that sounds like it's coming from a cave, vibrates more internally and that has a unique character.

I'm no expert, but it sounds to me that if it's "coming from a cave [and] vibrates more internally" then it might be better described as 'visceral'. Perhaps I'm getting your description wrong, but I sometimes hit harmonics between octaves which resonate fiercely like a demon trying to pop out of the ground.

Zakarius


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

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#9 2007-05-11 16:26:11

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Dark Tone

My experience is kind of limited, but that "hollow" sound comes easily with the jiari flute I have while none of jinashi shakuhachi get it very well. It sounds a lot like what you can get from a silver transverse flute if your embouchure is in good shape. That goes along well with the theory of it being a lack of harmonics because a smooth surface won't provide a lot of interesting harmonics like a jinashi will.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#10 2007-05-11 16:45:27

radi0gnome
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From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
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Re: Dark Tone

Zakarius wrote:

Perhaps I'm getting your description wrong, but I sometimes hit harmonics between octaves which resonate fiercely like a demon trying to pop out of the ground.

Zakarius

I might be misunderstanding his description too, but those harmonics you get in between octaves are more of multiphonic sort of thing being two or more note sounding simultaneously. The harmonics that I think most posters are talking about in this thread is what gives a particular tone its color. A pure sine wave lacks harmonics and sounds very "flute"-like. I put flute is in quotes because it's most similar to silver transverse flutes, there are plenty of different kinds of flutes that don't sound like that. By adding harmonics or partials to the wave you can get other wave-forms that give an instrument its characteristic sound. The caveat is that a lot of the characteristic sound of any particular kind of instrument isn't just the shape of the sound-wave, but is in how the notes start and end. I've been tricked by brass instruments, particularly fluegalhorns, as sounding like flutes. The wave form is way different, but some players can get the attack, decay and vibrato to sound very similar.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#11 2007-05-11 19:12:30

pagacks
Troll
From: Oxnard, California
Registered: 2007-04-24
Posts: 28

Re: Dark Tone

I'm elated by the reactions to this subject. Please consider me just one reactor since really am no expert or professional musician. I even have to ask for a layman's explanation of what 2nd or 4th harmonics are. In other words, my definition of dark tone need not tie up how others would like to define it. Yours may even be better or a more correct and complete one. Do continue to define it since interesting.

May I illustrate further how I view or rather hear a dark tone.
The latters I consider as producing more of dark tone: Violin vs. cello; flute vs. clarinet; Whiteman's voice vs. African's voice. But the former ones can certainly also produce dark tones with the proper technique.

It may not even be low vs. high notes. An oboe (my favorite) has dark tones from low to high notes. Stevie Wonder sings dark tones even in high notes.

The common denominator seems to be the predominance of internal vibration ( thus my description as coming from a cave) and the production  of a tone which has a unique character.

As Amokrun said, flat notes are also dark. That's the reason classical composers choose to write certain pieces in key of multiple flats , to my difficulty in playing these pieces on the piano.

Aside from definitions, may I also solicit the original request for tips in  making and playing the shakuhachi in producing more this dark tone (to get us out of the dark, ouch...or rather into the dark).


WARNING!! THIS TROLL IS AN UNETHICAL SELF-PROMOTER OF A POOR SHAKUHACHI PRODUCT!!

Last edited by pagacks (2007-05-12 04:11:41)

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#12 2007-05-11 20:39:19

dstone
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From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
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Re: Dark Tone

Yes, good discussion.  Messy though.  smile

I've seen a couple of remarks that flat notes tend to be darker or that flutes tuned to a flat note tend to be darker.  I find this surprising, because that would seem to tie darkness to how a flute is tuned in an arbitrary western 12-tone chromatic scale at an arbitrary tuning (e.g. A4=440Hz?)

This is perfectly reasonable, of course... who am I to question your taste or perception?  But are you sure you're not mixing up pitch or relative pitch (e.g. dissonance) with timbre?  e.g. If I play a C and then an Eb on a piano, the Eb sounds slightly dissonant, minor, or whatever adjective you want to use.  This is a slightly western cultural thing, but there's physical basis for that dissonance, so we can probably agree that it is minor or dissonant sounding relative to the C.  Now is that Eb darker?  No, I don't think so; it has the same timbre (in this case, by virtue of being on a piano).  If I started out by playing the Eb then there's nothing dissonant or minor about it.

Question:  Can the darkness of a tone be determined by playing the tone alone, without knowing what its place might be in a scale or relative to a tonic?  I think it can be.

-Darren.

Last edited by dstone (2007-05-11 20:57:20)


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#13 2007-05-11 22:16:44

radi0gnome
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From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
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Re: Dark Tone

pagacks wrote:

I even have to ask for a layman's explanation of what 2nd or 4th harmonics are.

With a simple google search I found this web page that should answer a lot of the physics questions:
http://mtsu.edu/~jakins/4200/4200physics.html

pagacks wrote:

In other words, my definition of dark tone is my own and need not tie up how others would like to define it. Yours may even be better or a more correct and complete one. Do continue to define it since interesting.

As soon as you start describing tones with colors you've entered the world of synethesia, or the mixing up of the senses. Some people have a naturally high degree of some type of synethesia, some drugs can enhance it, but almost everyone from every culture will associate lower notes with darker shades of grey and higher notes with lighter shades of grey. There have been studies that show this, googling might find something here too, I remember articles in Omni and Psychology Today magazines back in the '80's about it.

pagacks wrote:

May I illustrate further how I view or rather hear a dark tone.
The latters I consider as producing more of dark tone: Violin vs. cello; flute vs. clarinet; Whiteman's voice vs. African's voice. But the former ones can certainly also produce dark tones with the proper technique.

Violin vs. cello sounds more like a higher/lower tone kind of thing. You'd expect cello to be described as darker.

Flute vs. clarinet with clarinet being darker? That sort of blows away the theory that the more complex waveforms are brighter because a clarinet waveform is more complex than a flutes, which is close to a pure sine wave. I think I'd describe flute as being brighter too.

Whiteman vs. African? Do you you mean African-American? R&B singers love to blend the vocal registers, introducing a lot of partials to make an even more complex waveform out of the already complex vocal waveform when it's grounded in either register. I'd be hesitant to say which technique is darker or brighter. However, African singers, even though depending where and what style of music in Africa you're refering too can be a lot of different techniques, stereotypically (thanks to Paul Simon and Ladysmith Black Mambazo) consist of a lead singer pushing a chest voice to be somewhat distorted in a call to be answered by a chorus of  calm chest voice responses. Personally, I'd describe the lead singer as a brighter voice than the chorus.

           

pagacks wrote:

It may not even be low vs. high notes. An oboe (my favorite) has dark tones from low to high notes. Stevie Wonder sings dark tones even in high notes.

Again, it's just me, but I'd describe Stevie Wonder's voice as bright. That's an incredible range he's got, with a lot of power all the way through it and every note right on pitch. Singing is easy, singing that good is not only very hard, but very few will be capable of it. Throw that in with his other musical talents and you can understand why he is a celebrity.   

pagacks wrote:

As Amokrun said, flat notes are also dark. That's the reason classical composers choose to write certain pieces in key of multiple flats , to my difficulty in playing these pieces on the piano.

You'll find some contemporary composers who will say a particular key fits a piano compostion better because of the mood, but often the choice of key is something else. If it's an orchestral piece the range of the individual orchestra instruments was most likely taken into account and sometimes for solo piano there is no real reason for the choice in keys. The compostion started with an idea that happened to be in that key and the composer stuck with it.  There's a bit of controversy about keys reflecting moods. Keep in mind that some orchestral instruments are transposing instruments, so if the oboe is playing in the "dark" key of Db, the clarinet will be playing in the "brighter" key of Eb. With piano, that's not quite equal temperment because there's a bit of fudging going on in the tuning, different keys will sound a bit different. You'll have to ask the composer why he or she chose the key.     

pagacks wrote:

Aside from definitions, may I also solicit the original request for tips in  making and playing the shakuhachi in producing more this dark tone (to get us out of the dark, ouch...or rather into the dark).

On the playing side, my contribution on tips for acheiving any particular tone is to mentally focus on it and experiment. There's a lot to be said for practice.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#14 2007-05-11 22:28:27

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Dark Tone

In addition:

Since none of us here have been able to arrive at a consensual description of what 'dark' is,

how can we tell you how to make a flute that will sound like 'it'?

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#15 2007-05-11 22:29:37

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Dark Tone

dstone wrote:

I've seen a couple of remarks that flat notes tend to be darker or that flutes tuned to a flat note tend to be darker.  I find this surprising, because that would seem to tie darkness to how a flute is tuned in an arbitrary western 12-tone chromatic scale at an arbitrary tuning (e.g. A4=440Hz?)

I was going to say that the reason why A was moved to 440 from 415 was to make it brighter. But I found this web page that says A 415 is gentler. http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1305.htm

So, maybe the lower notes aren't darker, but gentler smile


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#16 2007-05-12 04:31:18

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: Dark Tone

edosan wrote:

Since none of us here have been able to arrive at a consensual description of what 'dark' is,

how can we tell you how to make a flute that will sound like 'it'?

I've always thought that music is very easily accessible thing because even though it's often very hard to explain why something happens or sounds the way it does, even a complete amateur will be able to hear these things and say "this is what I call X" when presented with an example. It is quite easy to say if you like the way someone plays or not but it's by far harder to actually play like that. At least in my case that's how I've always viewed this. I don't really know what causes a sound to be to my liking but by the time I hear it there is little room for doubt left. I suppose that in a sense I'm even hoping that nobody comes up with a technical answer for this one. Having a technical explanation to everything that makes music as mysterious as it is would to me be like telling that there really is no Santa.

Either way, it's an interesting discussion. Just goes to show how hard it is to talk about things like sounds using words. Not only are there no words to describe most anything but people don't even necessarily connect the same words to the same things. It might be a good idea to start including a short sound clip along with every abstract term that describes the characteristics of a sound.

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#17 2007-05-12 06:33:37

pagacks
Troll
From: Oxnard, California
Registered: 2007-04-24
Posts: 28

Re: Dark Tone

There need not be a consensus. Perry has given me invaluable flutemaking tips. All of you guys have opened up links knowledge and viewpoints which will help understand what I'm or many of us are searching for.
      Adventurers and explorers did not find a consensus on where they wanted to go but still set out anyway. We might yet discover new techniques or just merely highlight ones previously known, sort of enlighten  the dark... and keep them dark. 
      I'll share a method I found which perhaps for the pros is common knowledge or on the contrary violative of what teachers prescribe. I could produce a dark tone simply by arching my upper lip a little over the lower lip (forming a small "o" rather that an "eee") and blowing downward. Of course blowing softly and gently has been known for long to also contribute to dark tones. You can try and let us know if the method is correct or wrong.
     Please also share other methods.
     Thanks.

WARNING!! THIS TROLL IS AN UNETHICAL SELF-PROMOTER OF A POOR SHAKUHACHI PRODUCT!!

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#18 2007-05-12 11:44:56

shaman141
Member
From: Montreal, QC.
Registered: 2006-02-02
Posts: 154
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Re: Dark Tone

In my opinion, some examples of dark sounding players would be Kiku Day and Okuda Atsuya. I think the suggestion to find a teacher who has this dark sound that you are seeking and take lessons with him will be the right way to really find and develop the sound you're looking for.


Find your voice and express yourself, that's the point.

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#19 2007-05-12 13:39:16

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Dark Tone

amokrun wrote:

I suppose that in a sense I'm even hoping that nobody comes up with a technical answer for this one. Having a technical explanation to everything that makes music as mysterious as it is would to me be like telling that there really is no Santa.

Our parents lied to us.  And the flutemaking forum should be removing mysteries of flutemaking, wherever possible, in my opinion.

I've learned much here, thanks to basic science, about flutemaking.  Mysterious 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 points in the bore (high school science), why romantic root ends magically sound so much better, especially supporting the kan register (tapered bore, slightly more advanced science), etc.

So if someone can articulate what "dark" is and how to make a flute sound "dark", then I say remove the mystery!  Of course if we can't even agree what "dark" means then we're screwed. neutral

Embracing the remaining mysteries and going back to my zafu now to blow some noise...

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#20 2007-05-13 11:03:39

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Dark Tone

I don't think it's so complicated. Your embouchure is an EQ, similar to the tone knobs on an amp. In adjusting your embouchure you can emphasize different overtones -- highs, lows, middle. Emphasize the highs and you get a "bright" sound, much like turning an old-fashioned tone knob toward treble. De-emphasize the highs and you get a "dark" sound. If you have an amp with a graphic EQ, play a shakuhachi CD through it and adjust it -- you'll hear  bright when you boost the sound in the area of 2000 to 3000 Hz, dark when you reduce that area.

Of course different shakuhachi may be brighter or darker, but the player has a great deal of control.

In terms of playing, a kari position helps to make the tone bright (in this sense a meri note is darker), but it is also affected by the exact shape of your embouchure.

RO buki is a great way to practice your embouchure EQing. RO is a note that you can't make loud just by blowing harder -- it jumps very easily to the second octave if you simply blast it with breath. So you make it sound louder by adjusting the overtones with your embouchure -- going for that "honking" or "trumpet" tone by emphasizing overtones in the 500 - 1000 Hz range. Once you have the feeling of making this adjustment to RO, going back and forth easily between "simple" tone and "trumpet" tone, you can apply the same sort of adjustments to other notes, making them brighter or darker.

In contemporary acoustical and engineering usage, "dark" and "bright" refer to the emphasis or de-emphasis of particular overtones, not to any absolute fundamental pitch. In this sense of the terms, the abstract key of D-flat is no darker than the key of D. However, particular instruments may have inconsistent timbre across their range, so that a particular pitch or set of pitches may be darker or brighter. This is also the whole idea of alternate and cross fingerings. If you want a bright second octave G, play a RE. If you want a dark second octave G, play an ichi san no U. If you want a bright low octave F, play a TSU. If you want a dark one, play a RE full meri. Much of shakuhachi music is about exploiting these differences and the play of bright and dark. If you can do it very flexibly with your embouchure as well as your fingerings, you're really playing the music. (Remember not to let it affect pitch correctness!)

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#21 2007-05-13 12:25:27

pagacks
Troll
From: Oxnard, California
Registered: 2007-04-24
Posts: 28

Re: Dark Tone

Thanks very much Nyokai. That's an invaluable lesson session in itself we got. It's also like you brought your well appreciated tips series specifically to this question.


WARNING!! THIS TROLL IS AN UNETHICAL SELF-PROMOTER OF A POOR SHAKUHACHI PRODUCT!!

Last edited by pagacks (2007-05-13 12:30:37)

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#22 2007-05-13 12:38:06

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: Dark Tone

Yes, thanks Phil.

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#23 2007-05-22 05:35:58

costademaria
Member
From: spain, denia
Registered: 2006-12-11
Posts: 110
Website

Re: Dark Tone

my more practical answer is to find a piece that looks like it would play dark, more dense,the better cause it would eat some middle frequences,after oiling it i would even cook it with the propane burner to make the coulor darker and the bamboo densier,make the most possibly deeper utaguchi,definetely wider bore, small choke point,making a bit oval the blowing end to the left and the right,oval fingerholes and search for the tone and the psychodelic effect when making, not for the volume. when the sound starts to make you a brain massage you are on the right way :-) but apart from this for me the darker sound comes from stretching the limits. the lower lowest as possible the higher clean as possible and eating the middle

Last edited by costademaria (2007-05-22 06:02:43)


"how dear sir did you cross the flood?" "by not halting,friend,and by not straining i crossed the flood."
"but how is it,dear sir,that by not halting and by not straining you crossed the flood?"
"when i came to a standstill,friend,then i sank,but when i struggled,then i got swept away.it is in this way by not halting and by not straining i crossed the flood"

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#24 2007-05-22 09:31:33

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: Dark Tone

nyokai wrote:

RO buki is a great way to practice your embouchure EQing. RO is a note that you can't make loud just by blowing harder -- it jumps very easily to the second octave if you simply blast it with breath. So you make it sound louder by adjusting the overtones with your embouchure -- going for that "honking" or "trumpet" tone by emphasizing overtones in the 500 - 1000 Hz range. Once you have the feeling of making this adjustment to RO, going back and forth easily between "simple" tone and "trumpet" tone, you can apply the same sort of adjustments to other notes, making them brighter or darker.

Thanks for the above comment.
<dumbfounded & off to practice>

Zakarius


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

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#25 2007-05-26 12:26:27

Horst Xenmeister
Shiham
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-05-26
Posts: 69
Website

Re: Dark Tone

pagacks wrote:

I do not know how easily this can be answered. It's about dark tone which is very desirable in a shakuhachi, for me at least. A dark tone to my ears  is one that sounds like it's coming from a cave, vibrates more internally and that has a unique character.

1. What factors cause the production of a dark tone?
2. What flutemaking tips can be shared to come out more with a dark tone?

For example in another post I seem to have stumbled on discovering (I may be wrong) the jutting bit of membrane below the utaguchi as contributing to a dark tone.

Thanks

I maked an dark Shakuhachi. Was paint with Shoe polish und rubbed with old shirt until dark. Brown beter than black with this. Bamboo turn dark instead light. Dark tone.


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