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> bellowing winds >
> hissing through these pine bowers - >
> Watazumido! >
C'mon, give it a go.
Last edited by Harry (2007-05-13 10:11:17)
Lets see now ...
That's about the best I can do at work. Yes, I know, it breaks the rules of haiku in several ways. Please do let me know of any errors in my grammar as I'm very much still learning this.
Which rules would they be? The ones the old masters all broke?
Someone once told me that after you learn to follow the rules perfectly you are free to break all of them if you want to. I have relied on that idea in many things including playing shakuhachi. Once you know that something you do isn't the right way to do it you can choose to just go ahead because hopefully you have some kind of reason for it.
Regardless of that, I always loved haiku and other types of poetry where you must say something using a minimal amount of words. It makes you consider the importance of everything you write down. In a sense it's much like playing shakuhachi. You must consider if what you are doing adds to the sound and act accordingly. You don't just end every sound in a muraiki just because you can or fill the piece with vibrato to a point where it starts sounding funny.
I've seen some western haiku which conform to the 5:7:5 'rule' that have obviously been 'elaborated' to fit that scheme.
This is a pity, I think minimalism is closer to the spirit of haiku than set form. Some examples of this 5:7:5 'inhibitive formalism' can be seen in Richard Wright's English haiku for example (although others of his are just superb!)
I'm not sure where the 5:7:5 thing got its currency, but I know that some respected Western haiku poets consider it a latter day suggestion of convention, others consider it just a complete fallacy.
Last edited by Harry (2007-05-14 11:12:57)
I'm not sure where the 5:7:5 thing got its currency, but I know that some respected Western haiku poets consider it a latter day suggestion of convention, or just a complete fallacy.
I also find that it makes much more sense in a language like japanese where many terms have a very low syllable count when combined together. Sometimes the actual haiku can have quite a few words even though most of them have only one syllable. If you try to make 5:7:5 haiku in finnish for example you almost certainly end up with something very confusing because most words have at least a couple of syllables and many words that in english would be just one consist of 2-3 in finnish.
I feel that 5:7:5 is fine when using japanese but if you are working with another language it's better to aim for something else that works for that particular language. I think that attempts at taking something out of one culture and dropping it as-is into another often leads to a failure. The right way to do this would be to consider what the true purpose of the rules is and figure out how to get that in the new context. Despite knowing very little about haiku I would assume that they aren't 5:7:5 just because those numbers are somehow magical.
"Japanese haiku have been traditionally composed in 5-7-5 syllables. When poets started writing English haiku in the 1950's, they adopted this 5-7-5 form, thinking it created a similar condition for English-language haiku. This style is what is generally considered "traditional" English haiku.
Over the years, however, most haiku poets in North America have become aware that 17 English syllables convey a great deal more information than 17 Japanese syllables, and have come to write haiku in fewer syllables, most often in three segments that follow a short-long-short pattern without a rigid structure. This style is called by some "free-form" haiku. In this essay, I will discuss the linguistic circumstances that necessitate shorter English haiku to be more loosely structured than Japanese haiku."
Come to think of it, shakuhachi haiku could be interesting. Take something like 3-phrase limit and try to play something that manages to convey a feeling within that limited amount of time. There could be other limitations such as - in the tradition of haiku - keeping the middle phrase longer than the first and the last phrases or perhaps playing the middle phrase in Kan while rest of it is in Otsu. Many honkyoku are quite long and contain tons of details. This kind of thing could be interesting because suddenly you don't have a whole lot of room to include everything.
I'll have to give this a try when I get home. Too bad my mic setup is still very much a work in progress and I can't record a whole lot of anything. If anyone feels up to the challenge, do post your sound clips here. I'd love to hear some of the results.
I'd say that's pretty great for the first entry. I presume that was a Taimu? Closer to 3 shaku or so? The decay especially sounds lovely. Ergh, I suppose that now that someone took this thing seriously I have to make one as well. I'll do my best to get something together in the next few days. In the meantime, I'm hoping for more entries. Would be nifty to get a tradition going here where everyone would post one or more of these.
I was afraid that the first entry would be someone doing circular breathing on Ro for an hour and then calling that one phrase.
I presume that was a Taimu? Closer to 3 shaku or so?
Great idea Matti! Yes, that was a fat 2.6.
Almost blowing tsu-meri
jumping up and down
— January 2008
Oh-oh, that is not sound of shakuhachi
Echoes though mist-veiled mountains
Last edited by TOTO (2008-01-28 21:38:20)