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#1 2005-12-16 15:27:02

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Vibrato: how do YOU do it?

While I'm still relatively new to flutes, I'm wondering something.

Do all of you make Vibrato by shaking your head up and down (or side to side) when playing, or do some of you still make the vibrato in your breath, like a singer?

I'm fighting myself, trying to train my lungs to NOT do anything but blow, and let my head do all the vibrato. It's really hard to relax your breath like that, though. It's also hard to not "slip off" the note sometimes.

Sometimes, I also kind of "shake" the flute with my right hand; this gives me good vibrato at times, but sometimes cuts the note off if I'm not careful.

It seems like the best vibrato I can get, the most controlled, the most passionate, is from my lungs, but I'm not sure I'm getting my full amount of air that way, you know? I know that doing it that way isn't "tradtional", as well, but I"m not sure what a no-no it is.

Any tips, advice, suggestions?

-Eddie
Kyorei Flutes


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

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#2 2005-12-16 23:21:15

steven
Member
From: Seattle
Registered: 2005-11-15
Posts: 13

Re: Vibrato: how do YOU do it?

Great question, Eddie's not the only one interested in this. My vibrato is really not refined at all and consequently I rarely employ it - which is a big gap in my playing.

Steven

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#3 2005-12-17 00:16:34

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Vibrato: how do YOU do it?

Regarding vibrato:

In traditional shakuhachi music, vibrato of the type you are referring to is only done with head movement. The best advice in achieving a decent vibrato this way is to not rush it, in fact, for the time being, I'd counsel you to stay away from it altogether for quite a while; you already have more than enough to do....

The classic aphorism is 'no vibrato for three years'...that is, in the 'old school' approach to things. Of course, it's up to you. Also, vibrato is rarely used in honkyoku (although many players can't help themselves, and do it anyway), the exception being a rather exaggerated vibrato at specific places in a piece. It's a bad habit to develop a vibrato and use it everywhere--it's better to develop a strong technique with no vibrato, and then work on the head movements required to get a subtle vibrato, used as an occasional seasoning, for effect.

There is no more sure-fire way to sound like a bush-league shakuhachi player than to develop a crummy vibrato.

Of course, it's up to you...

eB

Last edited by edosan (2005-12-17 00:17:25)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#4 2005-12-17 15:00:02

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Vibrato: how do YOU do it?

What happened to Brian's post from last night?

-E


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

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#5 2005-12-18 08:26:41

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Vibrato: how do YOU do it?

kyoreiflutes wrote:

Do all of you make Vibrato by shaking your head up and down (or side to side) when playing, or do some of you still make the vibrato in your breath, like a singer?

Especially if you're working without a teacher, I would recommend no vibrato at all. Just pure simple tone, long unmanipulated breath. That's the essence of shakuhachi playing.

The only "breath vibrato" in traditional shakuhachi playing is komi-buki, used in the Nezasaha honkyoku, and that is a specialized technique that is not used in the rest of the honkyoku.

If you're interested, I have put together some downloadable videos on beginning technique that includes how to breathe etc.

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#6 2005-12-18 10:00:30

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Vibrato: how do YOU do it?

As Nyokai mentioned, breath vibrato and diaphragm vibrato are not part of the regular shakuhachi repertoire. In most cases neither is tongueing.

Shakuhachi is about breath control. People who have ANY kind of vibrato that is not under their control are losing the plot. Many people who started out on a western wind instrument are actually at a deficit compared to absolute beginners because they have to unlearn the vibrato they learned on flute or sax or whatever.

Thus the best thing to do is to practice as a beginner to make a pure tone with no vibrato. Especially in the beginning you will be learning simple songs that need not be interpreted with "passion" or "expression". Then learn the specific vibrato requested in the notation or associated with the school (such as Oshu, Nezasaha, etc).

To answer the question about how do you make vibrato, it is better to do it from side to side than up and down, because when you play up and down it's easy to cut off the note. Up and down vibrato sounds like a drunken sailor. None of the good players use it. Side to side vibrato gives more control. But it's not strictly side to side like shaking your head to say "no". It's an oval shape with the horizontal sides of the oval being longer. Sometimes you can use a figure eight pattern.

If you are using head vibrato a general rule is to start out a regular kari note straight and then introduce the vibrato midstream, starting out slow and speeding up a bit as the note goes on. With meri notes play the vibrato from the beginning of the note and keep it at a steady rate.

It goes without saying that there is almost an infinite range of vibrato available to the player. The ability to waver the pitch at any depth and speed at all times is one of the things that makes the shakuhachi such an expressive instrument. In addition the vibrato used by Kinko players, for example, is different than that used by Myoan players. There are a lot of regional variants. Even within the same school people use different vibratos. Yamaguchi Goro was known for his vibrato which went to the limit of what is acceptable. Actually some people criticised him for using too much. There is an interview with Yokoyama Katsuya where he says he has spent a lot of time thinking about vibrato and decided that it's best to play honkyoku without it. However when you listen to him he actually uses a lot.

Minyo music uses a very wide vibrato, especially on the slower tunes. Gaikyoku (sankyoku) has vibrato going most of the time. Honkyoku should be interpreted piece to piece. Some of the best pieces have no vibrato whatsoever. Others request specific vibrato, of which there are many. Some pieces start out with no vibrato and add it later.

If you are not playing traditional (Japanese) music, do whatever you want. A lot of the people who use it in new age or Native American music use western vibrato. Likewise shinkyoku uses the traditional vibratos (vibrati?) and other ones of western origin or adapted from the modern woodwind repertoire.

Vibrato is one of the most important things in playing the shakuhachi. Until you are sure of what kind of vibrato you want, it's best to proceed slowly in developing it. It's better to err on the side of caution. Not using vibrato may not be the best way to play a song, but it's a lot better than using the wrong vibrato.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

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#7 2005-12-18 15:22:12

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Vibrato: how do YOU do it?

Phil, I think we would ALL LOVE to see those videos. Can you point us in the right direction? Thanks!

-Eddie
Kyorei Flutes


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

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