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#1 2005-12-22 05:53:15

Alex
Member
From: Barcelona - Spain
Registered: 2005-10-17
Posts: 138

Traditional learning

Hello everybody,

I started learning Shakuhachi a few months ago and I have been reading all sorts of things about what you should do when you start and what you shouldn't do. I've heard for example that in the traditional way of learning you shouldn't play Honkyoku for so many years, you shouldn't use vibrato for another amount and so on.

I took Shakuhachi as a life long experience and I'm not much in a hurry to learn new pieces, challenging techniques and so on, I just play one sankyoku piece and I think is much more than I can handle. My question is, can anybody tell me which are the steps to learn in a traditional way? I mean, what should I focus first, getting a big sound? a small sound? different tone colours? finger dexterity? good meris and karis? And what should I avoid, vibrato?, alternative fingerings?, other techniques? And, what should I accomplish first to move to a different phase in my learning? The thing is I don't have so much time to practice so I don't want to be doing too many things at the same time and not been able to do anything properly.

It's not that I just want to play traditional music but in my opinion if they have taught like that for many years it must have a reason. On the other hand I also thing it's important to approach any instrument with your own understanding but for that I reckon no teacher can help.

Well, hope someone can help me out a bit. I guess it's difficult to give concrete answers; anyway, a reflection on what I mention above from a experienced player would be of a lot of help.   

Thanks a lot and happy days for all

Alex


"An artist has got to be careful never really to arrive at a place where he thinks he's "at" somewhere. You always have to realise that you are constantly in the state of becoming. And as long as you can stay in that realm, you'll sort of be all right"
Bob Dylan

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#2 2005-12-22 16:58:57

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Traditional learning

Hi Alex,

There are numerous different ways to approach the shakuhachi. In the strict Kinko tradition, they study gaikyoku for about 5 years before approaching their honkyoku. In the Myoan tradition they start with honkyoku immediately. The Jin Nyodo style, which is my training, teaches both alongside  one another.

If you have a teacher the best thing to do is just follow his/her recommendations until you have enough knowledge to branch out on your own. If you don't have access to a teacher I would recommend getting one of the basic honkyoku instruction CD/Book methods and trying to learn that way. I like Takashi Tokuyama's method and Yoshinobu Taniguchi's. Tokuyama's has the simplest techniques. They are both available from shakuhachi.com. Many people say that honkyoku is more difficult than gaikyoku, but I don't personally agree with that. In any case I don't know of any teach yourself gaikyoku methods. Then I would get James Schlefer's workbook of practice excercises (long tones, scales, etc.) and its play along CD. It's lonely practicing on your own without a teacher but not impossible. Stan Richardson, who is an excellent player, taught himself.

Or you could try video lessons with our own Nyokai. http://shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=125

Hope this is helpful.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#3 2005-12-22 18:42:48

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Traditional learning

Brian...

For those of us that are new and don't know that much, do you think you or one of the other pros could explain the difference in style between Gaikyoku and Honkyoku, or provide a good link? Is Gaikyoku more of a formalized, tempo-based style, or is it closer to Honkyoku? I'm still in the dark about the different types of Shakuhachi music.

I'd love to hear more about this.

-Eddie
Kyorei Flutes


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

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#4 2005-12-22 20:28:38

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Traditional learning

kyoreiflutes wrote:

Brian...

For those of us that are new and don't know that much, do you think you or one of the other pros could explain the difference in style between Gaikyoku and Honkyoku, or provide a good link? Is Gaikyoku more of a formalized, tempo-based style, or is it closer to Honkyoku? I'm still in the dark about the different types of Shakuhachi music.

I'd love to hear more about this.

-Eddie
Kyorei Flutes

Basically gaikyoku (outside music) also called sankyoku (trio music) is classical music performed by shakuhachi and koto (13 stringed harp) and/or shamisen (Japanese 3 stringed fretless banjo). Shakuhachi is always in a supportive role, the music is written for the stringed instruments and sometimes vocal.

Honkyoku is the Zen music developed and transmitted in the temples.

It is not difficult to find recorded examples of both styles.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#5 2005-12-22 21:45:59

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Traditional learning

Great - that's about what I thought the difference between the styles is...thanks for clearing that up.

Is there a good source for any gaikyoku and sankyoku music, or is it written differently than the Honkyoku I'm used to seeing? There's a hasband and wife team here in Seattle that do Shakuhachi accompanying Koto. I've played the Koto a bit, and really like it, although I'm not too super with it. They certainly do sound nice together.

Thanks, Brian.

-E


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

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#6 2005-12-23 05:05:45

Alex
Member
From: Barcelona - Spain
Registered: 2005-10-17
Posts: 138

Re: Traditional learning

Hi Brian,

Thanks so much for your answer. So I guess, as it often happens with Shakuhachi, there's no "correct" way of approaching it.

I thought it was better to focus on Sankyoku for a while, as the main difficulties appear to be to move smoothly from one note to the other, and to get a good pitch. I find that Honkyoku has much more things to it, but I guess both have their own difficulties.

I suppose it also depends on how much time you have available to practice. In my case is quite limited so I suppose it’s better to focus on a single thing. In this sense, that practice book you recomend looks really interesting.

Again, thanks a lot for your answer, your encouragement and your recommendations.

Happy days

Alex


"An artist has got to be careful never really to arrive at a place where he thinks he's "at" somewhere. You always have to realise that you are constantly in the state of becoming. And as long as you can stay in that realm, you'll sort of be all right"
Bob Dylan

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#7 2005-12-23 05:16:33

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Traditional learning

OK Alex,

One thing I forgot to mention is that most players start with minyo (folk music) and children's songs. These are good ways to learn the fingerings and notes, phrasing and basic musicality. Usually for about 6 months to a year before graduating to gaikyoku or honkyoku. Most of the beginners books have at least some minyo, so try to get that under your belt before trying the more difficult sankyoku and honkyoku. I don't know how advanced you are, maybe you have already done this, but for the information of others reading this, that's the best place to start, because it is possible for beginners to play some of that music fairly well and have fun.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#8 2005-12-28 13:01:30

Alex
Member
From: Barcelona - Spain
Registered: 2005-10-17
Posts: 138

Re: Traditional learning

Hi Brian!

Thanks for the tip. I did start with some folk tunes but I moved on to sankyoku after a while. Anyway, I think it's a good idea in order to do some very basic practice.

Thanks a lot

Alex


"An artist has got to be careful never really to arrive at a place where he thinks he's "at" somewhere. You always have to realise that you are constantly in the state of becoming. And as long as you can stay in that realm, you'll sort of be all right"
Bob Dylan

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