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#1 2007-08-07 19:42:28

pinewind
Member
From: Polson MT
Registered: 2006-01-02
Posts: 5

ra and ha: significant difference?

Ancient worthies:

I am without a convenient teacher and live in a relatively remote area: Thus, this query:

My fingering/notation guide (which I got off the WWW from the B.C. Shakuhachi group) lists Ra and Ha exactly as ethe same fingering. There's a little sideways  'caret' in Ra, but no other difference, and no explanatin.

Obviously, there is something I'm missing. Is  Ra a transition to Ha or a transition between  A and Ha, with some subtllty I've neglected to see through. Or what? This came up as I am plodding through  Honshriabe, which introduces the Ha-Ro entity.

Thanks in advance,
John in Polson


Both the flute and the breath are moving.

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#2 2007-08-08 10:59:30

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: ra and ha: significant difference?

I haven't seen that fingering chart, but I suspect it's a Dokyoku chart, which would mean the ha is a ri pitch (C on a 1.8) and the ra is a ro chu meri pitch (C# on a 1.8). The mark by the second hole on the ra is probably there to indicate that's the hole used to repeat it, and the attack hole at the start of the note, as in Azuma Jishi.

This can be a bit confusing, though, because although this kind of standalone ra is C#, in a ha-a-ra-ro figure most people play the ra as a C, not C#.

In other lineages these symbols are used somewhat differently, and the fingerings are different as well. And of course a kan or dai kan ha is a different thing, too, or several different things.

Honkyoku is an oral tradition, and the scores and charts are meant as mnemonic aids for the structure of the piece, not as exact descriptions of what you learn from a teacher. Even in a piece as seemingly simple as Honshirabe most of the real music is not available simply by working through the notation in reference to a chart.

Last edited by nyokai (2007-08-08 12:53:12)

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#3 2007-08-13 22:14:25

pinewind
Member
From: Polson MT
Registered: 2006-01-02
Posts: 5

Re: ra and ha: significant difference?

Thank you for your courteous and prompt reply. The whole puzzle of a-ra-ha will probably solve itself as I muddle along.
John


Both the flute and the breath are moving.

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#4 2007-09-25 16:09:51

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
Website

Re: ra and ha: significant difference?

The ha is a Ri pitch made with the #2,#4 &#5 holes shaded and the chin down a bit. #1 & #3 are closed. The back hole will control the pitch greatly. "A" is made by raising the chin and opening the #2,#4 & #5 fingers completley with #1 & #3 still closed. It's a D pitch. Ra is funny. After playing "A", you lower the chin again  but this time closing the #4 hole; you'll have to lower the chin till you get the Ri pitch. While in this position you bounce the finger on the #2 hole. The sound when you bounce it is really the "Ra". It's actually a repeat of whatever you want to call that note you're playing when you bounce the finger. Immediately go up into the Kan no Ro sound. So, pitch wise, Ha-A-Ra-Ro is Ri-Ro-Ri-Ro.

  I usually can't bring myself to answer these kinds of questions online here as I have a bunch of students who are actually paying their money for this information. However, I realize you are by yourself with no teacher and don't wish you to create a bunch of bad habits for a few years. Some of us do teach online and you're welcome to try that out as an option to doing it yourself! Good luck.

Last edited by chikuzen (2007-09-25 16:11:14)


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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