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#1 2007-09-04 10:40:31

Fred Merch
Member
Registered: 2007-09-04
Posts: 4

Which moisture level for bamboo flutes = 45% or 58% ?

Hello smile

I live in a region of France where humidity level in the air changes enormously during a day, and even more along a week. My bamboo flutes are stored in an airtight container, but it is not enough to prevent the fluctuating moisture changing too fast inside it. Humidity fluctuations are exceptionally extremes in the valley I live in.

I have decided to use moisture regulator salts (humidipak, little bags you put in the case), which alternatively release or absorb moisture to keep a precise RH level in the instrument case. This product comes in two level values suitable for music instruments: 45% RH (originally intended for guitars) and 58% RH (originally intended for reeds).

I am tempted to steady the humidity to 45%, though it is usually advised to keep bamboo flutes over 50%. But I am afraid 58% RH would be too damp for my precious flutes.

I would value your opinion and experience on the matter. Thanks

Last edited by Fred Merch (2007-09-04 10:42:47)

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#2 2007-09-04 21:11:48

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Which moisture level for bamboo flutes = 45% or 58% ?

Hi Fred,
Here in southern Japan, the humidity level is typically 60% or more throughout the months of April to October.  Humidity drops a small amount in the winter months but not much.  Bamboo grows here and thrives in this humidity.  Of course, gross fluctuation of humidity and heat is not good.  It's not uncommon in the summer, when the temperature sores in midday to hear a loud crack in a bamboo grove.  This is the standing bamboo reacting to sudden temperature fluctuation.   Therefore, if you are regulating, I would suggest that the storage humidity and temperature be as close to that of the average humidity and temperature in the area and time that the flute will be played.  Hope this helps.
Jeff


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#3 2007-09-05 04:06:44

Fred Merch
Member
Registered: 2007-09-04
Posts: 4

Re: Which moisture level for bamboo flutes = 45% or 58% ?

Thanks Jeff
Typically, in the fertile countryside I live in, almost every night of the year humidity nears 100% until the first hours of daylight. Then it will fall drastically, losing around 10% per half-hour until it can reach between 50% and 60% RH. In the afternoon it will stabilize for a few hours. Then as soon as the sun begins to sink behind the trees, vapour rises again from the grass and humidity level rises as fast as it lowered in the morning. (Note that during winter those values are modified in my house by the electric heating.)

This daily stress worries me, because the RH fluctuation is so repetitively important on the bamboo. This is the reason why I intend to apply some moisture regulation. If I was considering lowering the RH to 45% into the case, this is because I assumed that the ambient moisture was too high for the health of the bamboo, risking mold and losing "vibration" quality (I am always under the impression that a dry fiber conducts vibrations better). But indeed priority is to lower the moisture difference endured by the instrument, so I will regulate the moisture to 58%... Unless someone experienced warns me that it is a too high average RH level for the health of bamboo.

Last edited by Fred Merch (2007-09-05 04:13:32)

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#4 2007-09-05 04:16:51

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Which moisture level for bamboo flutes = 45% or 58% ?

Fred, I think about 70% humidity is good for the shakuhachi. Therefore fluctuations of between 50-100% is probably safe because the bamboo doesn't respond instantly to the changes. I wouldn't worry about it too much if I were you.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#5 2007-09-05 04:21:23

Fred Merch
Member
Registered: 2007-09-04
Posts: 4

Re: Which moisture level for bamboo flutes = 45% or 58% ?

Thank you very much Tairaku.

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#6 2007-09-05 04:25:48

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Which moisture level for bamboo flutes = 45% or 58% ?

Fred Merch wrote:

Thank you very much Tairaku.

You're welcome. In my experience extreme dryness is the biggest problem a shakuhachi can face. Temperature is not a big problem. And fluctuations between humid and extremely humid are also OK. You don't want it going between extremely humid and extremely dry. That's when it cracks.

Suppose you are walking in the woods and it starts raining. Or you are in a dense fog. That is good for the shakuhachi. They love moisture.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#7 2007-09-05 09:28:50

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Which moisture level for bamboo flutes = 45% or 58% ?

Here is my input on humidity and flute cracking.

I live in Montreal Quebec and humidity throughout spring summer and fall is usually around 45% to 50% and on rainy days it can go higher. Where it gets ugly is actually in the winter when in house humidity can drop between 20% to 30% because  #1 its winter #2 in Quebec most people use electric heating and this will really lower the humidity level dramatically.

Now most Japanese people that brought in lacquer works and wood furniture from Japan had problems with them. Same thing happened at my place when I imported a bunch of Tansu when I renovated the house. In some of them the wood cracked and drawers became loose or too tight depending on time of the year.

When it comes to Shakuhachi our first teacher in Montreal had at least from what I know one of his flutes crack and 3 of the other guys that learned with him had problems of cracking or utaguchi or joint being loose etc and to some of them it was a ongoing issue that was never totally resolved. Now those Shakuhachi all came from the same maker in Japan and 1 of them was even smoked. Now is the maker partly to blame??? I have no idea.

Now here is my story with the flutes I own.

Here is the way I have kept my house since I first got into Shakuhachi. Because so many player had issues with their flutes and when I started Shakuhachi I was a bit freaked out about paying between 800$ to 3000$ for a piece of bamboo than can crack anytime. So here is what I do to keep my flutes and a list of them with their story since they came to Canada.

I make sure to keep the house at minimum of 50% humidity at all times. So in the winter I have 2 humidifiers in the house to keep the level to at least 50%. Sometimes when we use the electric heating a lot we can see it drop to 40% for a while.

For storage I put the flutes in a plastic bag then one of the wool bags made by Monty and them in the hard plastic tube they go. The Tansu I use to store them also has a plastic container that has a sponge with water in it all the time as well. I have made sure to keep the same routine since I started playing and so far I have been pretty successful. Now the only 2 flutes that I had issue with were 1.8 from Japan. This leads me to think that 2 things were involved here fast change of humidity for the 1.8 that cracked badly and usage of old school glues for the 1.8 that got loose since when humidity was at play the glues would have shifted more easily. BUT my own conclusion from the flutes I own is if you are careful with your flutes and make sure to keep good humidity even if a flute crack it just tells you that she had to crack in the end anyway. This kind of stuff does happen in Japan also anyway

1-    Monty Levenson 1.8 pro level 25 years old bamboo fully bonded with rattan = No signs of cracking losing etc. from day 1. Flute was owned for 10 years now
2-    Monty Levenson 2.4 Torachiku fully bonded. No sign since day 1. Flute was owned for 2 years now
3-    1.1 Chikuyu no sign from day 1 owned for 3 years.
4-    1.2 Chikuyu no sign from day 1 owned for 3 years.
5-    Hoshi Bonchiku 1.8 no cracking but joint came loose and rattan wrapping undid itself in first winter and urushi inside bore flaking. Reglued rattan at joint and tightened it with a bit of duck tape no other sings after flute has been owned for 4 years now.
6-    Yozan 1.8 now here is the story got the flute from Japan in September and no signs until December. Then left for Japan for 3 weeks and left the flute in Canada. When I cam back the upper part was cracked badly from joint level all the way up to utaguchi all the way trough the bore. Got the flute repaired and fully rattan bounded by Monty and since then no more signs. Flute has been owned for 4 years now.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#8 2007-09-05 10:51:48

Fred Merch
Member
Registered: 2007-09-04
Posts: 4

Re: Which moisture level for bamboo flutes = 45% or 58% ?

This is very interesting and instructive Gishin, thanks.

Last edited by Fred Merch (2007-09-06 09:29:22)

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