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#1 2007-09-23 13:17:35

jeff jones
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Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 113
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watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

I'm putting this in this section so as not to cover up Jeff Cairns recent post in the recordings section. The website Improvised music from Japan has a recent cd of Watazumidoso - Sokuin Rancho/Ryohbo for sale. Hopefully that same company will continue to remaster the rest of Watzaumido's library.

Last edited by jeff jones (2007-09-23 13:18:47)


Beauty is ugly at rest

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#2 2007-09-23 13:25:33

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Hey Jeff,

I couldn't find it there. Which label has released it. The music store there is grouped by label.

Ciao,

BR


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#3 2007-09-23 13:39:32

jeff jones
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Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 113
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Hi Brian   I found it under the new releases section at Universal Music,  dct-1882 Watazumidoso - Sokuin Rancho/Ryohbo (Universal Music, DCT-1882) (CD) 3,000


Beauty is ugly at rest

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#4 2007-09-23 16:29:56

Kabato
Member
From: New York City
Registered: 2007-02-26
Posts: 28

Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

I just ordered a copy. I'm really psyched to finally be getting this album since the last time I saw it on eBay it sold for $100+, more than I can rationalize spending on a single record (even one this rare and awesome).


If you say that you do not need to fan yourself because the nature of wind is permanent and you can have wind without fanning, you will understand neither permanence nor the nature of wind. The nature of wind is permanent; because of that, the wind of the buddha's house brings for the gold of the earth and makes fragrant the cream of the long river.

-Eihei Dogen, Genjokoan

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#5 2007-09-23 17:07:21

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Nope still don't see it. Can you post the exact link?


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#6 2007-09-23 17:48:57

dust
Member
From: Albion
Registered: 2007-09-08
Posts: 91

Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Greetings Tairaku..

i think this is the link you need..

http://www.japanimprov.com/indies/unive … ancho.html






john


imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete.

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#7 2007-09-23 19:26:56

Christopher Yohmei
Shihan/Kinko-Chikumeisha
From: Tokyo
Registered: 2007-06-16
Posts: 13
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this, but since the topic of Watazumi has come up, I thought I'd share the story of my encounter with him, about 20 years ago. This encounter provided me with invaluable insight into the  personalities of everyone invovled, including myself. I wrote this in my journals.

********************************

The attitude of the shakuhachi-player-as-spiritual-adept can probably be traced, in large part, to the late Watazumi Dô, who insisted that he was, above all, a zen roshi rather than a shakuhachi player. In his case, however, he was a superb technician on the instrument and opened the ears of a generation shakuhachi players, including Yokoyama Katsuya, to the sonic possibilities in the old honkyoku. Yet, he, too, was full of hype, and though most people took him quite seriously, he was not above playing the trickster and pulling to wool over everyone’s eyes. An experience I had with him bore this out.

The shakuhachi collector Dan Mayers once asked me to come with him as translator on one of his perennial visits to Watazumi. Mayers paid Watazumi several hundred dollars to write out the notation to various honkyoku, knowing that eventually these manuscripts, written in the master’s hand, would increase in value. For his part, Watazumi was glad to oblige, for he could scribble out a few pages of eccentric notation and be paid a handsome amount for a minimum amount of work. Theirs was a match made in heaven. As for me, I was eager to finally meet this much talked about master.

Watazumi put on a rich performance for Mayers, and Mayers loved it. Watazumi insisted, every few sentences, that he was the undisputed master of the shakuhachi, everyone else who played was “sick,” and that he and only he was the pure shakuhachi roshi adept. Mayers agreed with every utterance, knowing that such eccentricity would only increase the value of his investments in the Watazumi original notation.

As translator, I was caught in the middle. It was my first time to visit this legendary shakuhachi player, but after a time of translating his ravings I became disillusioned and slightly disgusted with his egocentric attitude. On the other side, it was also obvious that Mayers was using Watazumi for his own ends, and I struggled to make Mayer’s overtly predatory attitude palatable to Watazumi through my interpretation.

The coup de grace came at the end of the session, when Mayers invited us all out to lunch. Watazumi could not decide where he might like to eat, so in the end he declined the invitation and just asked Mayers for the money that he would otherwise have spent on the meal.

As we took our leave, Watazumi maintained his “holier than thou” attitude and I, thinking I had absolutely nothing to loose, decided to be blunt with him. I faced him squarely and told him quite frankly that I thought he was a big buffoon, full of himself and nothing but a fake.

For a moment there was silence as he took this in. Then, slowly, a huge grin spread across his face as he said “You! You are absolutely right! You have attained satori!” He was ecstatic that someone had called his bluff, and, for the first time during the visit, he actually smiled and looked relaxed. I felt as if a fog had suddenly lifted and that indeed, I was in the presence of a special being.

In the meantime, Mayers stood by waiting impatiently, totally unaware of what had just transpired between us.

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#8 2007-09-23 21:53:06

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Goes along the same line as what my Iaido teacher said about him. But overall my iaido teacher was saying that even if his stuff and attitude did relate to the Rinzai way of doing stuff he was still a reall ass.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#9 2007-09-23 22:12:14

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

I heard that he took a bunch of flutes from a great maker, sold them, and kept all the money for himself. The maker died bitter and in poverty. I suggested something similar to Ken but he didn't go for it, don't know why. wink


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#10 2007-09-23 22:32:28

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Tairaku wrote:

I heard that he took a bunch of flutes from a great maker, sold them, and kept all the money for himself. The maker died bitter and in poverty. I suggested something similar to Ken but he didn't go for it, don't know why. wink

You heartbreaker you!!!!  I am sure lots of Watazumi romantics are now all heart broken about their image and fantasies being put down the drain. wink


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#11 2007-09-23 22:35:51

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

I suppose it MIGHT not be true but the source is reliable. Hey nobody says great musicians are nice people, ever watch "Amadeus"? Talent can find a repository anywhere. We are just the vessels. The problem is that in this particular case there is also a spiritual dimension attached to the great music.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#12 2007-09-24 14:50:57

Harazda
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Registered: 2007-06-07
Posts: 126

Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Of course, what we now know is that each of us is the one true adept, followed by the bonafide satori that we're self-deceived.

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#13 2007-09-24 22:33:27

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Wow, Yohmei. What a story! Nice ending though!
I hear so many of these kind of stories about Watazumi, but mostly (not all) from secondary sources. Nice to hear  from a person, who directly experienced him.
Thank you for sharing it!

Kiku


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#14 2007-09-25 10:54:12

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Sombody Must write a book about Watazumi. (or is there one ?)
I will buy it.

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#15 2007-09-25 15:33:29

Moran from Planet X
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From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Tairaku wrote:

The problem is that in this particular case there is also a spiritual dimension attached to the great music.

And the tantric people don't call it 'crazy wisdom' for nothing. Not to excuse unkind or bad behavior by anyone, but  many accounts of profound spiritual revelation are preceded by pretty graphic stories of mental and even physical abuse. Zen masters, tantrics, Don Juan. Taunting, slapping, setting up impossible tasks, lopping off digits.

Last edited by Chris Moran (2007-09-25 15:35:44)


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#16 2007-09-25 16:53:26

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
Website

Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Nobody has ever accused Watazumi of being a great shakuhachi TEACHER nor a great zen teacher, that I know of.  What you say Chris M. is well known and true: many people who have spiritual insight have very little ability and/or a rough time relating to others in the "accepted PC way". However, he did and does effect the shakuhachi world in his own way. His playing is not the kind one can imitate, we all know that. It's so personal/individual in style. But, undeniably, many people find his playing an inspiration. It also seems he's the fun easy target that everyone loves to dump on and amusing stories collect around him and his persona. I certainly am not "sticking up" for him as I have no vested interest, but I find it interesting that since it's shakuhachi, many people find it difficult to seperate the private lives and the shakuhachi lives of the teachers, and find these quirks surprising or shocking. I actually think many people like to identify with the "rogue" character who lives outside the lines. I certainly don't mean you , Chris B. It is true I think that when we "buy" something we are buying ourselves and so Dan Mayers certainly bought himself. He knew what he was getting into and loved it! And so, Watazumi "ate it up" as much as he could. Ha Ha. (I love bad puns.) I especially like the lunch money part. In this case, he certainly was the "teacher". I never would have gone that far. Watazumi, always the extremes. I do think Dan needed to open his eyes a bit. It's a big mistake if you expect all shakuhachi teachers to be "life/spiritual teachers".  Weird as it may seem, especially with shakuhachi. In many cases, it seems like shakuhachi is rather the life line that keeps a balance in the persons life with what's happening on the other side of the coin. The same goes with any other field. The shakuhachi world in Japan is abundant with stories, scandals, etc.  Watazumi doesn't have a monopoly on the amount of these stories, nor the degree of entertainment they present in the name of pure nosey inquisitiveness. But I too, with Chris B.,  will wait until the timing is right to speak. Maybe someday, all the long life non-native residents and x-residents of Japan can write a kiss-n-tell book. Maybe not too!

Last edited by chikuzen (2007-09-25 16:59:43)


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#17 2007-09-25 17:06:46

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

People seem to share both ridiculous and inspiring legends/stories about Watazumi just like they do about any public figure. When you turn yourself into a public figure (in this case by performing and making albums, etc.) you open up the doors for that kind of treatment. I have seen a lot of the behavior ascribed to Watazumi in musicians of all walks, call it crazy wisdom if you like or maybe it's called "knobism".

I listen to him more than any other shakuhachi player and I don't really care that much about what kind of person he was or if he was nice to the people around him. He's dead. So it's only the music that lasts. I also love Wagner and Charles Mingus although it's pretty well documented that they had some flaws as humans.

One interesting thing is that many people say, "I had the opportunity to study with Watazumi and I didn't, I can't remember why." or "He did several concerts I could have attended but I never did." And they always seem confused by that. Chikuzen, you have been playing a long time and you probably could have met, studied or seen him perform. Did you?


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#18 2007-09-25 18:42:06

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

Actually, I guess I could have but didn't seek out the opportunity. I had teachers (Yokoyama & Taniguchi) at the time. I was a beginner and didn't know anything about shakuhachi, except that I was drawn to do it. I figured these guys were awesome players, they could certainly teach me and destiny seemed to drag me to them so I followed it. I was also very cheap and didn't want to spend the train money to go to Tokyo from Kyoto. I did have a couple things involving him happen although he didn't know it. I got an introduction to a Tozan sect teacher in Kyoto at the JTB desk in front of Kyoto station. I had heard shakuhachi but knew absolutely nothing about it, so I ask there one day if they knew a good teacher. I went to this dojo for about 2 monthes. I would go in the backroom of the "mansion" where there were tons of LPs and go through them, listening to everything. I found a Watazumi LP, still knowing nothing of him, and liked the music. I took the LP in to the teacher and ask him if he could teach me a song (San'an) which I pointed to on the back of the LP. He looked at it, at the same time, all the students there gasped, and he said, "I'm can't. We don't do that song here". Very politely too. I said, "oh, ok". Good gaijin responce. I was, of course, totally unconscious to what I had done. Unconsious enough that I did it again with a Yokoyama Lp. I wasn't concerned with the person playing, since I didn't know anybody anyway, as much as the song. The second time he asked, "who is playing that anyways"? "oh, Yokoyama-san, sorry, we don't do that one here either". I always respected that teacher for the way he handled things. No funny attitude, no nothing. Just matter of factly.
   I did spend an afternoon with Steve Lacey in a "Jazz cave" basement in Kyoto once where he talked a lot about Watazumi. He had a lot of respect for the guy and said they were very good friends. So I think my initial 'intro' to Watazumi, of course, including all the funny stories, was balanced with Lacy's words.
   As for myself, I like many players and different styles for many reasons. Not just my teachers. And I'm studying other styles now for many reasons.


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#19 2007-09-25 19:08:08

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

I was carrying my shakuhachi around in a soprano sax case. Lacy asked me what kind of soprano it was and I said, actually shakuhachi. Then he started going on about Watazumi. Said he had all his LP's but in storage so he needed a CD. I gave him one. Lacy said Watazumi gave him 2 lessons. First one was, "Stop smoking". Second one was asking Lacy to sing a note. Lacy gave forth a fairly feeble tralala and Watazumi laughed. Watazumi called in his girlfriend and asked her to sing a note and she peeled the paint off the walls. Watazumi said they went down to the train tracks to practice singing and playing the flute against the noise of the trains. Watazumi also taught Lacy some breathing techniques. Supposedly they recorded something together but it hasn't come out, man I'd love to hear that, two of my favorite musicians.

Coincidentally Ken just posted a version of Lacy's "Blues for Aida" we recorded in L.A on his myspace page.

http://www.myspace.com/mujitsushakuhachi


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#20 2007-09-29 17:28:20

Kabato
Member
From: New York City
Registered: 2007-02-26
Posts: 28

Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

I just received my copy of the CD and am extremely satisfied. A really nice reproduction of the cover and liner notes and beautiful sound on the recordings. Almost no background noise, great depth to the sounds, a great CD. Now let's hope they release the rest of Watazumi's discography in this manner.


If you say that you do not need to fan yourself because the nature of wind is permanent and you can have wind without fanning, you will understand neither permanence nor the nature of wind. The nature of wind is permanent; because of that, the wind of the buddha's house brings for the gold of the earth and makes fragrant the cream of the long river.

-Eihei Dogen, Genjokoan

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#21 2007-10-14 13:49:20

Tono
Member
Registered: 2007-09-28
Posts: 43

Re: watzaumidoso Sokuin Rancho/Ryoho cd

A very good story, Yohmei. 

You also wrote a few years ago:

"The personality is actualized through precise mental concentration and training in technical skills, and betterment of the personality is a vital part of mastering the shakuhachi.  Realizing a profound, humble connection with humanity--through the music--is the ultimate goal.  An artist with an unbalanced personal life cannot create balanced music.
Performing is not without its contradictions, however.  The times we live in demand a personality behind the music, and a peformer in the public eye demands a strong personality and defined sense of one's duties.  Too much 'self-ishness', however, makes mockery of the shakuhachi's spiritual aspects.  The fine borderline between humility and hubris is easily crossed."

Did Watazumi find balance in his eccentric rebellion against Japanese and other social conventions?

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