Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

World Shakuhachi Discussion / Go to Live Shakuhachi Chat

You are not logged in.


Tube of delight!

#1 2005-12-27 05:00:10

jumbuk
Member
From: South-eastern Australia
Registered: 2005-12-15
Posts: 85

Different embouchures

I'm interested in others' experience at trying to play shakuhachi together with other wind instruments.  Basic question - is it possible or advisable to work on several at once?

Reason for this post - I am a year or so into sideblown flutes, mainly Irish.  I am originally a string player, and started on Native American flute a few years ago, then Quena, and eventually a variety of bamboo and wooden flutes.  Only recently started on Shakuhachi.

I find the embouchures quite different.  For Irish (sideblown flutes in general) I need a narrow focused embouchure.  I still find I need to exert the muscles around my mouth quite hard to get and maintain the necessary shape.  For Quena, I need even more focus, but slightly more relaxed (if that makes sense!) and a smaller opening to get the right sound.  For shakuhachi, I need completely relaxed lips (especially for Ro) and almost no perceptible embouchure form.

When I recently played Irish solidly for a few days (Christmas carols etc), I found I couldn't even make a sound with my 2.6 shakuhachi when I came back to it.  I have it back again now, but it worries me that perhaps I am trying to do too much learning and playing several instruments at once.  I really enjoy the shakuhachi, but I couldn't give up Irish to concentrate on shakuhachi only (it's my roots after all!). 

Any comments from multi-instrumentalists out there?  Is it possible to develop different embouchures simulataneously?


... as if nothing is happening.  And it is!

Paul Mitchell, Jumbuktu 2006

Offline

 

#2 2005-12-27 13:49:12

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Different embouchures

I'm not what I'd call a wind player, but, after playing Shakuhachi, I can more easily pick up other instruments and play them, although I find a lot of them far harder than Shakuhachi. Maybe I got lucky with the shakuhachi, though, and it happened to be "my instrument".

That probably didn't help.

-E


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

Offline

 

#3 2005-12-27 15:11:23

bluespiderweb
Member
From: Southeastern PA USA
Registered: 2005-10-31
Posts: 66

Re: Different embouchures

I think its very possible to divide your time between the Irish flute, etc and the shakuhachi.  Like anything else, if you concentrate on one instrument, you will do better with it, and more quickly too.  So, it depends on your goals.  And, if you play each with about equal time, you might have an easier time switching back and forth.  The one you play less will probably end up being harder to adjust to. 

I find the sideblown flute very similar in nature to the endblown flutes, but naturally one will be somewhat different from another, just as Irish flutes are-some require a very focused embouchure, as you said your does, Jumbuk, and others are easy players that don't require that "muscular" an embouchure.  People vary too-some find one thing easier to do than others, so your mileage may vary, as they say.

I imagine it is similar on the shakuhachi.  Some will require tighter embouchures than others.  I find my 2.4 can be played with either type embouchure, with different results to the tone and tuning.

Do I want to give up any instruments I like to play?  No!  Being able to make all these different tones from various instruments will keep me playing them all.  Then again, I'm not driven to become the best player I can be-I want to have fun and enjoy myself, for the tranquility it brings me when I play.


Be well,  Barry

Offline

 

#4 2005-12-27 20:19:34

jumbuk
Member
From: South-eastern Australia
Registered: 2005-12-15
Posts: 85

Re: Different embouchures

bluespiderweb wrote:

Do I want to give up any instruments I like to play?  No!  Being able to make all these different tones from various instruments will keep me playing them all.  Then again, I'm not driven to become the best player I can be-I want to have fun and enjoy myself, for the tranquility it brings me when I play.

Yes, it is a decision one has to make.  If I wanted to aspire to mastery of any instrument, I would probably have to make a choice, but I am happy to reach a "competent" standard on all of them.


... as if nothing is happening.  And it is!

Paul Mitchell, Jumbuktu 2006

Offline

 

#5 2005-12-28 00:11:57

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Different embouchures

Yeah, there are some that say Jack of All Trades, Master of None, but I never really believed that. I think you should play as many instruments as you want, as long as it makes you happy. If what you want is to concentrate on one just to attain a certain level, then you'll do that. I stink at guitar, but for some reason I own 4. If I have the money, and it's an instrument I'm even a little competant in, I'll buy it. You just never know, right? Heck, someone might need an instrument you have, and then you cna help them out. Plus, it makes you just a little more flexible as to whom you can play with, so why not?

-Eddie


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

Offline

 

#6 2005-12-28 00:40:09

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: Different embouchures

Hi Jimbuk,

jumbuk wrote:

I'm interested in others' experience at trying to play shakuhachi together with other wind instruments.  Basic question - is it possible or advisable to work on several at once?

I am part of a theater company in New York City that perform's Andrei Serban's Fragments of a Greek Trilogy every few years. I perform in the entire trilogy which runs a fast 4 hours counting set changes.
In one piece - Trojan Woman- I play The Soldier with a Flute. In this one hour spectacle, I run around playing the silver flute and shakuhachi amidst the audience. There are scenes with fire and water an even one where a circus bear rapes Helen of Troy. It's an amazing piece of theater beautiful and haunting. The actors and audience come out of the experience together in one piece.

One of the toughest things I do in the Trilogy (aside from moving the set between productions) is having to play a fast raga on a silver flute with a tabla player and then switching to the shakuhachi immediately after to accompany a lament. It's a very "clear" moment where the audience is seated, huddled around the performers. Everynight, I get heart palpatations right at that moment wondering if any sound will come out of the shakuhachi since I've just been playing with very tight lips. It's nerve wracking but possible. I found that I had to rehearse that moment, that shift in embroucher over and over again. Everynight, before the performances, I played the entire raga with the tabla player and then immediately went into the lament. I found a way to release the tension on my lips without making a funny face.


When I recently played Irish solidly for a few days (Christmas carols etc), I found I couldn't even make a sound with my 2.6 shakuhachi when I came back to it.  I have it back again now, but it worries me that perhaps I am trying to do too much learning and playing several instruments at once.  I really enjoy the shakuhachi, but I couldn't give up Irish to concentrate on shakuhachi only (it's my roots after all!).

Please don't give up the shakuhachi!
Great things will come.
Best, Perry

Last edited by Yungflutes (2005-12-28 00:47:03)


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

Offline

 

#7 2005-12-28 06:12:42

jumbuk
Member
From: South-eastern Australia
Registered: 2005-12-15
Posts: 85

Re: Different embouchures

Yungflutes wrote:

Hi Jimbuk,

[Please don't give up the shakuhachi!
Great things will come.
Best, Perry

Perry, there is no chance I will give up on the shakuhachi.  It is one of yours, and I love it!  I was just hoping I don't have to sacrifice the Irish flute to pursue shakuhachi in earnest.  from what you are saying, that is not necessary.


... as if nothing is happening.  And it is!

Paul Mitchell, Jumbuktu 2006

Offline

 

#8 2005-12-28 06:14:15

jumbuk
Member
From: South-eastern Australia
Registered: 2005-12-15
Posts: 85

Re: Different embouchures

geni wrote:

Hi.
I am have been playing Flute for 20 years , and now I learning Shakuhachi.
About the flute playing..
You have to play very relax on the flute. I use to have my embochure very tight...but that dasnt work long time.
Plus, you have been playing the flute for 1 year...somethings need time, I am still learning.
But, dont forget the embochure on the flute need to be relax, because playing relax will give you freedom to produce more tone colors,  and your embochure is not going to get tired.
You can play both shakuhachi and Flute and Sax and whatever wind instument,(there are a lot of people who do that) the key is to have a flexible emochure..and flexible come by bieng relex.
When you play first with a relax emboch , the tone dasnt sound good, but later will impruve.
Good luck men..
Geni..
P..S you dont have to give up any instrument, play them all if you have time. Just , take a long break when you swich them...(so you can relax the muscles)

Thanks Geni, that sounds like great advice.  I will try for a more relaxed embouchure on my sideblown flutes.  I guess that will happen anyway as my muscles get stronger.


... as if nothing is happening.  And it is!

Paul Mitchell, Jumbuktu 2006

Offline

 

#9 2005-12-29 10:40:33

philipgelb
Chef, musician, teacher
From: Oakland, California
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 135
Website

Re: Different embouchures

If you have not fully understood one flute and move to another one, you will probably severely limit your development on both. Emboucheres for flutes varies dramatically from one to the other. Even on different size shakuhachi, the emboucheres can vary quite a bit.
It all depends on what you are seeking. Do you want to dabble on many instruments but not really excel with any particular one, then a multi instrumental approach will work fine for you. If you want to really develop skills on one, stick to only one.
I recomend to my students to stick to one instrument for several years before picking up a different one.

There are exceptions, of course! Eric Dolphy comes immediately to mind who died in his 30's and was the most important flute and bass clarinet player of his time and a truly mind boggling alto sax player as well. Then again he probably practiced 10 hours a day to develop the level on those three instruments as he did.

phil


Philip Gelb
shakuhachi player, teacher & vegetarian chef
Oakland, CA
http://philipgelb.com  http://myspace.com/philipgelb, http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood

Offline

 

#10 2005-12-29 16:50:48

jumbuk
Member
From: South-eastern Australia
Registered: 2005-12-15
Posts: 85

Re: Different embouchures

philipgelb wrote:

It all depends on what you are seeking. Do you want to dabble on many instruments but not really excel with any particular one, then a multi instrumental approach will work fine for you. If you want to really develop skills on one, stick to only one.
I recomend to my students to stick to one instrument for several years before picking up a different one.
phil

I understand what you are saying, and I guess this was the point behind my question.  It is a difficult choice for me to make.  I am not a professional musician (although I have recorded and produced a CD in collaboration with another artist).  I want to do each instrument justice by studying the traditional repertoire and styles, but I don't expect to become a master of any.  With Irish music, I have a headstart by already knowing the music and styles etc on string instruments, plus I play weekly at sessions, which gives me a regular workout.  For shakuhachi, I expect to have to work harder at absorbing the culture and I plan to work with a teacher in the new year.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your contribution!


... as if nothing is happening.  And it is!

Paul Mitchell, Jumbuktu 2006

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson

Google