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#1 2005-12-27 21:16:18

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

Hi List,
i wish everybody Happy Holidays.

I will like to know how do you guys practise.
Everybody, I mean it.
I have been playing for a week now. I am happy with my progress (I sound  like I am playing bunsuri;-)

And what will be the ideal practise for you guys..(besides peforming of course)

Please, i dont undestand the japanise terminology..If you can put it in Western music terms will be very appriciated.

Thank you again
Geni..

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#2 2005-12-28 00:21:09

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

I generally have my flutes out all the time, and love to noodle around while I'm home. Of course, I'm unemplued at the moment, so I get a lot of noodling in. When I first started, I did scales and such, just made-up practice, but not so much anymore. It's my New Year's resolution to do at least a half-hour per day on serious learning, and I also do a lot of research and reading on the subject. Otherwise, I sit and play during shows sometimes, with some music (I find it helps to play with pop music to get my "folk" chops down), and walking around my apt. I've tried going to the park to play, but feel a bit self-conscious about doing it. I might feel better about it if I had some sheet music with me, some sort of focus so I don't worry so much. I'd love to find a cool, echoey space where I could play; if I knew at least a few pieces, there's a Chinese Tea House in Seattle that would let me practice, which kind of makes me want to learn even more. I envision the idea of playing outside a Japanese teahouse, like in the old days of Japan.

So there ya go.

-Eddie


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

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#3 2005-12-29 10:34:22

philipgelb
Chef, musician, teacher
From: Oakland, California
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 135
Website

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

i recomend to my students to start all practice sessions with long tones, one note, one breath. Use the natural shape of the breath to shape your notes at first, begin loud and as the breath weakens, let the sound get softer. The difficulty here is in keeping the pitch from going flat.
Long tones help develop the embouchere and the breath and get you and the bamboo warmed up.
Interval practice and scale practice is always recomended for daily work.  Particular techniques, as you approach them, will require specific practice ideas as you come to them.
And then work on repetoire and if you like,  improvising/composing.

Practice in and of itself, does not make you a better player! This is something i really stress to my students. Correct practice makes you a better player. At all times listen to yourself and analyze your sound.  If you blow arbitrary sounding notes in your practice every day, you will get very good at playing arbitrary sounds.

phil


Philip Gelb
shakuhachi player, teacher & vegetarian chef
Oakland, CA
http://philipgelb.com  http://myspace.com/philipgelb, http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood

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#4 2006-01-03 21:30:50

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

Regarding organizing one's practice:

Here are two links to a scan of an info sheet (front and back sides) produced by John Kaizan Neptune. The files should print well to a letter sized sheet. There is a lifetime of things to work on and think about on these two little pages; nothing mysterious--just the ideas of one who has put in much time in the woodshed:

http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/1467 … ge10zs.jpg


http://img439.imageshack.us/img439/2782 … ge23rl.jpg

Please bear in mind that this is copyrighted material.

Regards,
eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#5 2006-01-03 21:46:19

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

thank you men..
I am going to practise now..
happy new year
geni

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#6 2006-01-05 23:55:57

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

hi Guys,
I am practising a lot of long notes. and the sound is better.
i have a program called Band-in-a-box. Its really cool. Thats my band. i put the chords there, and I play along.
I find it very usefull for my intonation, to play with others.
I will recomand it to other people who don`t have musicians around them to jam. (its around 50$ ithink)

peace-Geni.

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#7 2006-10-16 13:26:16

TCB
Member
Registered: 2006-09-25
Posts: 34

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

philipgelb wrote:

i recomend to my students to start all practice sessions with long tones, one note, one breath. Use the natural shape of the breath to shape your notes at first, begin loud and as the breath weakens, let the sound get softer. The difficulty here is in keeping the pitch from going flat.

phil

I am a new beginner and finally can make my flute sound. However, it does not sound like any note of any kind. Any advice, please? Beside, can you define exactly what "long tones" are?

Thank you

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#8 2006-10-16 22:54:09

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

TCB wrote:

philipgelb wrote:

i recomend to my students to start all practice sessions with long tones, one note, one breath. Use the natural shape of the breath to shape your notes at first, begin loud and as the breath weakens, let the sound get softer. The difficulty here is in keeping the pitch from going flat.

phil

Beside, can you define exactly what "long tones" are?

Take a moment to re-read Phil Gelb's post (just above), and you will have a pretty precise definition of "long tones"...one note, one breath, repeat.

Do this for 3-5 minutes as a warm-up; listen, pay attention to what you hear: Does the pitch vary (do you want it to?)? Does the volume vary (do you want it to?)? How is your breath control? Is your inhalation relaxed, quick, quiet and efficient? Are you relaxed or tense? If so, where? I could go on....and on.

Generally, it's a good thing to play Ro (lowest note on the flute) as a long tone (it is called 'Ro-buki'), but long tones can be done with any note on the flute, and should be. It's a VERY good idea to blow long tones every day; it's what develops you embouchure, and it's what 'grows' your sound.

Working up to ten minutes of long tones from time to time is highly recommended. You will learn things you've never even considered...

eB

Last edited by edosan (2006-10-16 22:54:58)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#9 2006-10-18 11:31:24

TCB
Member
Registered: 2006-09-25
Posts: 34

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

Thank you Edosan.

So, let me understand this correctly. "Long tones" are to play the same note with one breath. But, what if it does not sound like any note? How long should a note be before repeating it? I am sorry if I ask silly questions, but I am kind of lost, not knowing what I am doing. Thanks again.

TCB

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#10 2006-10-18 14:16:29

PSTL
Member
From: Jacksonville, FL USA
Registered: 2006-08-02
Posts: 67

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

TCB

I started with an electronic tuner. The tuner helps you to distinguish the notes. It's a great tool when you're on your own. Sit down with a tuner and go long!

Take care.
Phil

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#11 2006-10-18 15:11:09

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

TCB wrote:

Thank you Edosan.

So, let me understand this correctly. "Long tones" are to play the same note with one breath. But, what if it does not sound like any note? How long should a note be before repeating it? I am sorry if I ask silly questions, but I am kind of lost, not knowing what I am doing. Thanks again.

TCB

Please explain a bit more about what you mean by 'does not sound like any note.' If it doesn't sound like any note, does it sound like an elephant? What?

The basic idea is that you take in a breath and blow into the flute until the breath is exhausted, take in another breath and do it again. You continue doing this for a set time every day. The tricky part is paying some attention to HOW you take in the breath, HOW you control the outflow in making the sound: controlling the pitch, volume and dynamics of the note.

Additionally, there are many variations in how you can do long tones: Ro only; repeated long tones with each pitch on the flute; start quietly--increase volume--end quietly, undsoweiter.

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#12 2006-10-19 14:13:57

TCB
Member
Registered: 2006-09-25
Posts: 34

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

Thanks again, Edosan. My problem is to try to make a musical sound. What I mean is any sounds come out of my flute don't resemble any notes that I am supposedly playing. On one breath, I hear variation of high and low pitches, little changes in volume. Sounds also vary after every inhale/exhale. I have been trying to play low octave, but the notes are not any where near tuned.

Well, if I am not clear on what I am trying to say, my aplogies. I am not much of a musician at all (evidently).

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#13 2006-10-19 23:02:08

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

No, that's very clear, and quite 'normal' for people starting out.

You must crawl around a bit before you can walk...

Keep on crawlin'...


One thing that may help at this point: For at least a good part of your long tone practice, don't try to stretch the notes out to a full breath; keep
them somewhat shorter, so you can concentrate a bit more on controlling your sound/pitch. As you go on down the road, increase the length until you get to a full breath.

Consider this: If you were to blow a long tone with the same embouchure throughout its length, when you get to the end of your breath and the
velocity tapers off, the pitch will drop toward the very end. In time, as you practice and listen, your embouchure will get stronger and will make subtle changes to keep the pitch constant, even at the end of the breath. This does not happen overnight...

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#14 2006-10-19 23:21:52

TCB
Member
Registered: 2006-09-25
Posts: 34

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

Thanks again, Edosan. So, are you suggesting that I should keep practicing on blowing on just one long tone, Ro, although I don't sound correct? When my embouchure gets stronger, the sounds will come together ?

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#15 2006-10-20 11:29:40

Sean
Member
From: Montreal.Qc.
Registered: 2006-10-12
Posts: 28

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

I have found that practice will always make the sound come together, no matter what.  Just focus on making the best sound you can make and you will evolve naturally.

Last edited by Sean (2006-10-20 11:31:33)

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#16 2006-10-20 11:31:15

TCB
Member
Registered: 2006-09-25
Posts: 34

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

What I meant is "Should I still practice the same way although it sounds incorrect?"

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#17 2006-10-20 12:19:54

JF Lagrost
Shihan/Tozan Ryu
From: Paris (France)
Registered: 2006-10-19
Posts: 73
Website

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

A student asked me exactly the same question just one hour ago.

No, of course, if your sound seems incorrect to you, it means that you have to change something : your ears work good, you know criticize yourself, so you can correct yourself.
But Sean and Edosan are right : you just have to practice, above all practice, and with the attentive ears you have, your sound will evolve naturally. Be humble, be patient, and accept that all is not perfect after one week (even after 10 years !)

From what you wrote yesterday at 20:13, I think the mouthpiece of your shakuhachi is too covered. Maybe you should raise the head and play more "kari", even if there's more "wind" in your sound at the beginning : be very attentive to tuning (you can use piano or electronic tuner). But I don't see you so I can be wrong.

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#18 2006-10-20 12:37:32

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

JF Lagrost wrote:

...accept that all is not perfect after one week (even after 10 years !)

So very true...

JF Lagrost wrote:

From what you wrote yesterday at 20:13, I think the mouthpiece of your shakuhachi is too covered. Maybe you should raise the head and play more "kari", even if there's more "wind" in your sound at the beginning : be very attentive to tuning (you can use piano or electronic tuner). But I don't see you so I can be wrong.

I think that Msr. Lagrost is likely correct in this assessment, since it is very common for beginners to be too close to the blowing edge of the mouthpiece--that's usually the only way to get some sound in the beginning.

You don't need to confine yourself to Ro when blowing long tones, but it's a good idea to put the majority of your long tone practice on Ro, at least
for the present; you'll get the greatest benefit.

If, after you do this sort of practice for a while (couple months), and you see no improvement, you should seek some real live help. My guess is that
things will improve...

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#19 2006-10-21 13:11:51

Teaman
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2006-03-16
Posts: 25

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

Thinking about my past (albeit short) experience with shakuhachi, I think I know what you're feeling. Keep this in mind; there is no one way to play shakuhachi. As was stated before, just keep practicing. Try new things regularly, new posture, new embouchures, new angles, pressure etc... 

Most adjustments to play shakuhachi well and control tone are so subtle, that even if a pro told you exactly what he/she is doing, you wouldn't be able to reproduce it anyways. Practice lots, and know that when you get it right, even for the first time, your body will retain a little bit of memory of the experience, gradually bringing you closer to consistency.

Don't underestimate just blowing, even without producing a sound. It is incredibly valuable. Good luck, don't let the frustration get to you; in about a year, look back on your posts, I'm sure it'll give you a chuckle. smile

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#20 2006-10-21 23:10:30

TCB
Member
Registered: 2006-09-25
Posts: 34

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

Thank you very much for all the advices from all of you. I am very grateful for all the help. I will keep practicing. I know that patience is a virtue, especially in learning.

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#21 2006-10-22 12:29:23

Alex
Member
From: Barcelona - Spain
Registered: 2005-10-17
Posts: 138

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

Teaman wrote:

Thinking about my past (albeit short) experience with shakuhachi, I think I know what you're feeling. Keep this in mind; there is no one way to play shakuhachi. As was stated before, just keep practicing. Try new things regularly, new posture, new embouchures, new angles, pressure etc... 

Most adjustments to play shakuhachi well and control tone are so subtle, that even if a pro told you exactly what he/she is doing, you wouldn't be able to reproduce it anyways. Practice lots, and know that when you get it right, even for the first time, your body will retain a little bit of memory of the experience, gradually bringing you closer to consistency.

Don't underestimate just blowing, even without producing a sound. It is incredibly valuable. Good luck, don't let the frustration get to you; in about a year, look back on your posts, I'm sure it'll give you a chuckle. smile

Hey Teaman!

Thinking about my past (also short) experience with Shakuhachi, I think it s one of the best advices I ve ever heard!

Salud!

Alex


"An artist has got to be careful never really to arrive at a place where he thinks he's "at" somewhere. You always have to realise that you are constantly in the state of becoming. And as long as you can stay in that realm, you'll sort of be all right"
Bob Dylan

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#22 2006-10-22 16:30:06

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: ideal practise for Shakuhachi.

...

I heartily agree.

...

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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