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#1 2007-12-12 09:18:15

KenC
Member
From: Western Massachusetts
Registered: 2006-01-05
Posts: 75

Flute to Flute...

I stopped at Perry's this past weekend to drop off my 1.8 for some Lacquer touch up on the bore.  While there, i was talking to Perry about possibly upgrading my 2.0.  We chatted for a few about it and he scurried upstairs and came down with a georgous 1.9 big bore, large hole flute Ji Nashi with just a touch of Ji i guess..  He handed it to me and said "play this one"!  Cool, i thought!  I donlt have much opportunity to play different flutes so this was really intersesting. 

So i hold it up to my chin, and blow and NOTHING!!!  Adjust a bit, closer but not much.  Again try to get the large bore settled in the right spot and i get this rather weak Ro!!  Shakuhachi certainly keeps you humble:-)

This leads me to a question....  It seems it takes me quite a while to get the hang of any flute that is  "new" to my lips.  Even going from my Tai Hei Root 1.8 to my Brown 1.8 took a while.  Same with my Yung 2.0.  I'm still a begiunner with about 1.5 years of play mostly Sankyoku and only recently got my first Honkyoku's. But does switching from flute to flute get easier with time and practice?

Best Wishes,

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#2 2007-12-12 10:24:44

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

Re: Flute to Flute...

KenC wrote:

This leads me to a question....  It seems it takes me quite a while to get the hang of any flute that is  "new" to my lips.  Even going from my Tai Hei Root 1.8 to my Brown 1.8 took a while.  Same with my Yung 2.0.  I'm still a begiunner with about 1.5 years of play mostly Sankyoku and only recently got my first Honkyoku's. But does switching from flute to flute get easier with time and practice?

Personally it takes me a while to get used to another flute. This happens even if I play one of my flutes more than the others and then switch to a less played one. I have been able to play all the flutes I've tried to some degree but it takes time to get to where you were with your last flute. My teacher told me about how he switched flutes at one point and it took him quite a few months to get used to the new one to a point where he started to use it in concerts. Just goes to show that it's not really a sign of a bad player at all.

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#3 2007-12-12 10:33:54

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Flute to Flute...

A big change in bore diameter is probably the most difficult variable to adjust oneself to.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#4 2007-12-12 13:17:24

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
Website

Re: Flute to Flute...

Naturally, if you get used to playing one flute and another is quite different, then it'll take a while to get used to it.
'Getting used to' implies the element of time passing. Time spent with the flute up to your lips means you and the flute will bond up better.
Some ideas:
1. If all your flutes are by the same maker, it'll be easier to go from one flute to the other even thought there are differences in flutes made by one person.
2. If the flute you play is "easy" to play you may have trouble when you meet up with one that is not easy to play.And vice versa. I've had both situations. I had a flute that most people thought was very difficult to play. During that time I found all other flutes to be easier to play then mine. Now it's the opposite: mine is easy to play and I don't want to play other people's (ha ha).
3. Like Eddy said, going from long to short, ji ari to ji nashi, concrete to glass, usually, the bigger the difference the longer it takes to get used to another. Think "naturally" is the key.
 
  This is very important when you are pressed to switch and play a different flute "on demand". In other words, in concert. Maybe two different flutes during the same song. Or 5 different flutes on one stgae. You have to practice switching and playing them back to back.


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#5 2007-12-12 14:08:30

Rayofwind
Member
From: DFW Texas
Registered: 2007-09-26
Posts: 21

Re: Flute to Flute...

Chikuzen's comment on "bond up better" made me reflect to my last flute purchased. I played my main flute each night, but always tried the new one before ending my meditation. Getting to the point I believed I would never be able to make a note on the new flute, I took the new one for meditation only. I tried relaxed breathing, holding the flute in different positions, then like a light turning on it just started playing. I can pick it up now and it will play like magic. Not that I am any good. The forum is my only teacher until I can find one.
Thank you KenC and Chikuzen for enlighting me to the fact it is not just me.

Wisdom comes by listening.

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#6 2007-12-12 17:21:12

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Flute to Flute...

I change flute all the time as I hardly play more than 2 honkyoku on one shakuhachi. And when I teach, I always change to the length of shakuhachi the student comes with. I also play contemporary pieces where I have to change quite quickly.
The most difficult thing for me when changing is, if there is a big difference in the depth of the utaguchi. If the utaguchi is cut very deeply - it can cause me some trouble to adjust to. That is because I am more used the the 'old style' shallow cut, which requires less tension in the lips and the jaws.
So there are many factors that can make it hard to change between flutes. However, you can practice it and it will be easier to change for you with time.

Good luck!
Kiku

Last edited by Kiku Day (2007-12-12 17:23:07)


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#7 2007-12-12 17:24:11

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Flute to Flute...

Some of the best shakuhachi players in the world have come over and failed to get a sound on some of my flutes, so don't feel bad about it. It just takes PRACTICE, which is a lot of fun so go for it!


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#8 2007-12-12 18:09:43

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
Website

Re: Flute to Flute...

It's also very common to NOT play the new flute as well as or be as consistant with as the old one , since you are more used to the old one.


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#9 2007-12-12 21:29:33

KenC
Member
From: Western Massachusetts
Registered: 2006-01-05
Posts: 75

Re: Flute to Flute...

Many thanks to everyone for all the responses and experiences here!  It is good to know that i'm stumbling on the same stones as others on this ever winding trail. Fall down 7 times get up 8 though!

One common word in most all of the responses, that word i guess we all really do enjoy, the word of "PRACTICE"!  Yea, Tairaku has it right , its fun!!!  Perhaps time to make sure i play the other flutes a bit more.  The 2.0 will definately see more blow time with the addition of the Honkyoku pieces.  As i've become a bit more proficient and less self consious i've been carrying the Brown Hardwood with me and playing outside and in the woods. Perry had some very intersting coments on "Exploring" the range of sound, timbre and color that i think bare some investigation between the flutes also.

Thank you ALL again for taking the time to respond.  Its always an inspiration when so much help and support is offered by everyone here.

Best Wishes,

Ken

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#10 2007-12-12 21:38:07

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Flute to Flute...

Some people are more adaptable than others in life and in shakuhachi. I love to jump around from one flute to another and different styles and eras of shakuhachi construction. I think of great flutes as teachers, when you play them a lot you figure out how they want to and need to be played to sound right and in the process you discover something about the music and yourself.

Other people are fanatically devoted to one flute and just blow that.

Some people only like to play the flutes of a particular maker and stick with that. This means that the maker and the new player probably blow in a similar manner.

You just have to find out which category you are in and follow that path. They are all valid.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#11 2007-12-12 23:11:33

jumbuk
Member
From: South-eastern Australia
Registered: 2005-12-15
Posts: 85

Re: Flute to Flute...

KenC wrote:

... I'm still a begiunner with about 1.5 years of play mostly Sankyoku and only recently got my first Honkyoku's. But does switching from flute to flute get easier with time and practice?

Best Wishes,

I am 2 years in and still a beginner - I don't feel up to Honkyoku yet.  I suspect that although it does get easier, you never really get to the point where you can just pick up a flute and be 100% confident you will get a sound.

Last edited by jumbuk (2007-12-13 19:31:13)


... as if nothing is happening.  And it is!

Paul Mitchell, Jumbuktu 2006

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#12 2007-12-13 11:19:42

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
Website

Re: Flute to Flute...

Yes you will. Don't worry.  Muscle memory is amazing. So is soul memory. It's good to stick to one flute at the begining to develope your playing abilities. You need to limit what you concentrate on for a while so your body and mind are not so confused.  But after you get to a point, maybe after a year or 18 mo., start trying other flutes. You'll be more prepared then and it should be a positive experience. I think after playing a long time some people forget how hard this aspect is for most of us. Like my very talented good friend and collegue Brian Tairaku Ritchie. Brian's way here is not the norm to be found in Japan but probably is the new norm outside of Japan. Of course, nobody ever accused Tairaku of being just normal(complement).  Brian has the advantage of having such a variety of different and wonderful flutes that he has learned to play many different flutes well. He also plays a lot of variety music and has..... many skills! The points he shared were right on too.

     However, my point in my previous post was not about just PLAYING different flutes. After playing many years, of course I can play many different flutes one after the other. But I still mainly have to stick to 3  flutes. Even though I'm very conscious in my practice of adapting to them. What  I was talking about is bringing out the differences inherent in the flutes in a very EXTREME sense. Having songs that demand something very different helps you bring this out and having extremely different flutes helps bring this out. One of my teachers was very very good at this. It was as much about the song and the flute as it was him. He knew how much we depend on the song and the flute to bring out the differences. My other teacher sounded like himself pretty much no matter what he played. Which was very wonderful! Actually though, like Tairaku said, just two different personalities. The first teacher was more difficult for me to learn from and the second one easier because of the consistancy. Personally, I haven't heard, in Japan, hardly anyone that can do this(bring out the extreme differences) well. But that's ok too. Traditionally the aesthetic is different. There are people, for example, like Aoki Reibo-san and previously Yamaguchi Goro-san, to name just two players, who play(ed) their 1.8 about 99% of the time. They use one flute for most of their lives and build their sound up to a very high level and present that to the public. That's the traditional way in Japan. And we are all happy they did or do. There are many players in Japan specializing in different types of music and play it at an amazingly high level. So there is still quite a variety.
 
   This may be too much of an answer for a beginner. I do hope that it's not too confusing and just gives you a peek into your shakuhachi future. If it is, bury it deep in your archives. However, I sometimes wish I had all this info when I started shakuhachi instead of swimming in the dark for a long time.

Last edited by chikuzen (2007-12-13 12:21:30)


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#13 2007-12-13 14:29:15

Rayofwind
Member
From: DFW Texas
Registered: 2007-09-26
Posts: 21

Re: Flute to Flute...

I have been amazed at the individual personalities of a shakuhachi flute. As one of your beginners I am impressed with the community within the Shakuhachi Forum. The concern each of you show is great.
As Chikuzen stated "swimming in the dark for a long time" is a big concern, because a beginner who feels this will continue to feel lost to the point of giving up. My goal is to be able to play with ease, obtain relaxation, have fun, and at all times maintaining the art of such a wonderful instrument.
Ray

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#14 2007-12-13 19:54:21

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Flute to Flute...

chikuzen wrote:

I sometimes wish I had all this info when I started shakuhachi instead of swimming in the dark for a long time.

Chikuzen, I suspect that in some ways, you were supplied with 'all of this info' (possibly in an ambient way,) however one's capacity to assimilate new information seems to depend upon previous information acquired, not to mention the receptive capacity of the equipment at hand.  It's something like pouring honey:  where one is, is not where one started, but absolutely depends on the tendency, consistency and viscosity of that beginning.  The beginning and now are intrinsically connected, however with distance and intermittency the past melds into a sweet (for some), homogeneous puddle.  Without the darkness, is there searching?  Without the searching, is there discovering?  Without the discovering is there knowing?  Without the knowing, is there darkness?


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#15 2007-12-14 08:00:17

KenC
Member
From: Western Massachusetts
Registered: 2006-01-05
Posts: 75

Re: Flute to Flute...

chikuzen wrote:

This may be too much of an answer for a beginner. I do hope that it's not too confusing and just gives you a peek into your shakuhachi future. If it is, bury it deep in your archives. However, I sometimes wish I had all this info when I started shakuhachi instead of swimming in the dark for a long time.

Actually it's a reasurring answer Chikuzen!  Thank you... When i first started playing i was told that we would play Sankyoku until i was ready for Honkyoku.  Now that i've been given Honkyoku, i'll definately continue playing Sankyoku.  Playing with and ensemble of Shakuhachi and Koto seems to push me and i feel has helped develop some technical ability and finger speed that has made the jump to Honkyoku feel almost natural.

That said, i've already noticed the incredible range of expression to be explored in Honkyoku pieces, and it's certainly a lifetimes work.  Be it to extremes or just to MY limit, it's been challenging and enjoyable.   I'm sure i'll still run into a dark day or three but  part of the journey i think.

Ken

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