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#1 2008-01-20 19:31:37

Gene
Member
Registered: 2008-01-08
Posts: 19

WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

Hi guys -

I've made several shakuhachi, but finally felt I had been successful with my latest 89.5 cm jinashi, hochiku, at F#.  I wanted a "green", old-timey, no frills chokan, solely for playing honkyoku, Watazumi fashion.  And I have a 1.8'  on order from a name shakuhachi maker, but this one is just too good to throw away.  I like it very much!  The first few phrases of Kyorei sound just great on it (to dumb me).

But it has a bad "whistle" or "squeal" in Otsu Ro.

Tell me please, what causes that, and how can it eliminate it?

Thank you very much.

Gene Neill
Mayo, Florida

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#2 2008-01-20 21:02:49

Bruce Hunter
Member
From: Apple Valley CA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 258

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

Undoubtedly makers, teachers, and players will respond with some suppression techniques, but this effect is producible at will on all my flutes, and it would be nice to learn how to enhance or suppress this effect. 8^)
Bruce


Develop infallible technique and then lay yourself at the mercy of inspiration. - Anon.

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#3 2008-01-21 14:16:00

Gene
Member
Registered: 2008-01-08
Posts: 19

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

Thank you, Bruce, for your reply.

But no, though eighty some folks read my post, no one replied but you, and you only said you could produce that whistling sound in all your shakuhachi at will.  Hmmmmmm?

Okay, just tell me what you do when you DON'T want the whistling noise?

I have six or seven shakuhachi right now; I just sold three on eBay last week, and I have one for sale on eBay now.  But not a one of those made the whistling sound in Otsu Ro, nor any place else for that matter.

I thought perhaps I had cut the utaguchi a bit improperly?

This home-made chokan is the only one with which I've had this trouble.  And I love this flute, and would like to make it my main honkyoku instrument - if I can get around this whistle.  It has a marvelous tone, and is way down at F#, perfect for Kyorei, Choshi and such.

If any of you experts can give me a tip, I would appreciate it very much.

Arigato gozaimasu,

Gene Neill
Mayo, Florida

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#4 2008-01-21 14:44:14

gmiller
Member
From: Ozello Trail, Fla
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 109

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

Gene - can you post some photos of the utaguchi; also what is the dimension (mm) from the blowing edge to the back edge....

gm

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#5 2008-01-21 15:20:26

Gene
Member
Registered: 2008-01-08
Posts: 19

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

Thank you very much GMILLER -

What a small world; we used to live in Crystal River, and our baby sitter was from Ozello.  And the Ozello Trail was one of our favorite Harley rides on many a sunny Sunday afternoon.  Great place to live!

But forget about my whistling problem.  I've just made arrangements to send this shakuhachi to a major shakuhachi maker here in the States, to have him tweak it in all areas.  I just finished the flute, and he may find some trimming and such to do here and there.

I am really delighted with the instrument; it is the first of my many home-made shakuhachi which really came out sounding like a million dollars.  I'm excited about it!  But, as this shakuhachi maker says, truthfully I'm sure, "I can always improve on any shakuhachi".

Best wishes,
Gene

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#6 2008-01-21 18:55:42

EricSwain
Member
Registered: 2006-05-05
Posts: 21

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

I've made 30 to 35 flutes but dont have any professional training so take this with a grain of salt.

I would be willing to bet that either the angle of the utaguchi is off or it is too deep. What I mean by depth is the distance between the top of the mouthpiece and the lowest point of the blowing edge. If it is too deep it is tough to meri / keri and makes that annoying whistle.

If you move the flute in closer to your mouth the odd whistle should go away. If it does you might be able to shave a bit off the top of the flute to reduce the depth of the utaguchi. Building up an already cut utaguchi is tough to make look good. You also might put an inlay in so you can adjust the depth.


Its also possible that, like me 5 years ago when I started playing and making, you need to practice breath control and work on perfecting your embrasure. This makes a HUGE difference with whistling and buzzing.


Eric

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#7 2008-01-21 21:04:11

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

Gene wrote:

But, as this shakuhachi maker says, truthfully I'm sure, "I can always improve on any shakuhachi".

I hope I don't step on anyone's toes here, but that does seem like quite a bold claim...

Zak -- jinashi size queen


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

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#8 2008-01-21 21:11:52

Gene
Member
Registered: 2008-01-08
Posts: 19

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

Hi Zakarius -

No, I'm sure he meant he could always improve on any home-made shakuhachi, made by some dummy like me.

Thanks,
Gene

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#9 2008-01-22 00:14:41

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

Oh. Well, the 3.6 I made is really quiet and the tuning on a couple of notes is off... perhaps I oughta consider sending it in for a tune-up. Who's doing the work on your flute?

Zak -- jinashi size queen


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

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#10 2008-01-22 00:59:50

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

Zakarius wrote:

Gene wrote:

But, as this shakuhachi maker says, truthfully I'm sure, "I can always improve on any shakuhachi".

I hope I don't step on anyone's toes here, but that does seem like quite a bold claim...

Zak -- jinashi size queen

I bet any of the good shakuhachi makers could make any low-end flute play better, even their own. Part of the reason cheap flutes are cheap is because of the minimal amount of work put into them. Of course, flutes made by less experienced makers could probably be tweaked too.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#11 2008-01-27 13:21:14

Gene
Member
Registered: 2008-01-08
Posts: 19

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

Gentlemen:

After all our going round and round about the cause of my WHISTLING IN OTSU RO problem, I've located fault.

I sent my chokan to Perry Yung for a tune-up and tweaking, and he said the whistling was because the bore was too small for the length of the flute - a problem, of course, which cannot be fixed.

Oh well, win some, lose some.

Gene

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#12 2008-01-27 14:07:32

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

Gene wrote:

Gentlemen:

After all our going round and round about the cause of my WHISTLING IN OTSU RO problem, I've located fault.

I sent my chokan to Perry Yung for a tune-up and tweaking, and he said the whistling was because the bore was too small for the length of the flute - a problem, of course, which cannot be fixed.

That's funny, I have some ney from India that are extremely narrow and, unlike the Arabic or Turkish ney, have a very small notch in the front that suggest that they are supposed to be blown similar to a shakuhachi or quena (ie, a nothced flute). When you play them that way they have no whistling sound at all. Maybe if you shaved off the utaguchi and replaced it with something similar you'd at least have a playable, non-whistling, instrument even if it isn't a shakuhachi but some kind of hybrid. I don't have any pics but it's simply a narrow, maybe 1/8 inch wide, notch making a blowing edge on an otherwise no-mouthpiece cut of bamboo.  BTW, the lack of whistllng sound isn't characteristic of ney when they are played obliquely like Turkish or Egyptian ney.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#13 2008-01-28 10:44:18

marek
Member
From: Czech Republic
Registered: 2007-03-02
Posts: 189
Website

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

radi0gnome wrote:

That's funny, I have some ney from India that are extremely narrow and, unlike the Arabic or Turkish ney, have a very small notch in the front that suggest that they are supposed to be blown similar to a shakuhachi or quena (ie, a nothced flute).

Just like a kalyuka, russian traditional flute?
http://nadishana.com/Rus/Kalyuka.htm

some groove on this very simple instrument...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaWxxytV55A

Cheers,

Marek

Last edited by marek (2008-01-28 10:44:49)


In passionate silence, the sound is what I'm after.

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#14 2008-01-28 16:13:03

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: WHISTLING IN OTSU RO?

marek wrote:

radi0gnome wrote:

That's funny, I have some ney from India that are extremely narrow and, unlike the Arabic or Turkish ney, have a very small notch in the front that suggest that they are supposed to be blown similar to a shakuhachi or quena (ie, a nothced flute).

Just like a kalyuka, russian traditional flute?
http://nadishana.com/Rus/Kalyuka.htm

some groove on this very simple instrument...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaWxxytV55A

Cheers,

Marek

No, the ney made in India that I'm talking about have an even narrower groove. Like I said it's about 1/8th of an inch, even a little less, somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8 but closer to 1/8. The kalyuka looks like it has a wider notch. But that video is just so cool, wow!


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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