Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

I understand what you're saying Seth, and I do feel there are some definate posers out there. Not only in the shakuhachi world but martial arts world, and other arenas of traditional arts. The same probably goes for Chinese arts as well. But I think it's important to remember that nowadays it's a costume, even for Japanese people. There are very few occasions in which the modern Japanese person wears traditional dress, aside from a few exceptions of course. Most people only rent kimono these days.
I'd be careful of letting your eyes be the judge though, how would you feel about a Korean person wearing a Japanese kimono? Pretty much indistiguishable from Japanese, but none the less culturally different and a non-Japanese. How about moving down south a little further and seeing a darker skinned asian such as Malasian? 
It's obviously worn as part of creating the atmosphere. I don't see anything wrong with that, it's a part of passing on a tradition. It doesn't bother you to see foreign players playing the shakuhachi, another Japanese traditional item, does it? I see many Japanese players wearing kimono when playing traditional music and change into stylish western clothes when performing shinkyoku, Jazz etc.   It's all about setting the mood.
I think in the end, it comes down to the intentions of the performer. Are they a good player and/or someone observing tradition, or are they a hack who is merely trying to build cred with an unaware audience and make up for a lack of skill?  I also recognize that kimono is a traditioanl art form, like the shakuhachi, that can also be very self-expressive. As artists and musicians, I　think we should be open to other people's forms of expression. Just my general thoughts

I just read everyone’s posts so far and I have to say you all make sense.

When it comes to my experience in Buddhism, Iaido and Shakuhachi I have say that wearing Japanese clothing for a Non-Japanese is totally ok and natural under certain circumstances.

I will detail the big NONO’S!! That I have seen in each field except Buddhism since when you are ordained and need to do ceremonies etc, for your parishioners there is not option not to wear your robes.

In Iaido/ Martial arts I have seen many if not to many Non-Japanese wear crappy clothes trying to emulate a real Kimono set for men. They either try to make it themselves with poor results or buy used stuff on Ebay or use a mix and match of used stuff/ready made martial arts clothes or home made crap. The end result is just horrible and makes them look like total fools. I have even seen some idiots wear silk formal hakama with a standard cotton Uwagi/Top made for martial arts with X straps style Zori/Sandals this is just not suitable and makes them look like fools. Not to mention the color scheme that sometimes/ most of times looks like they are colorblind when it comes to Japanese sense of Kimono dress up.

The above basically also goes pretty much in the Shakuhachi world also. I have seen some local players wear the good old X strap Zori instead of the Y type with a used Kimono with a family a crest/Kamon that does not belong to his family or school so in the end I feel that its all ok to wear that stuff under the following guidelines.

#1 Do you work in a traditional field being Buddhist priest, High rank martial art teacher or Shakuhachi teacher/perfomer, tea teacher etc…?

#2 Do you know what the heck is the name for the stuff you wear. Do you know how to properly wear and maintain that stuff and where to buy the stuff or have been trained to make it?

#3 Goes with #1 since you are in those fields do you REALLY need to wear them and can you afford them? Meaning men’s stuff when it comes to Kimono can range from at least 1000$ for a full set in wool/polyester and go higher from there if you go for silk etc depending on your size. To give you an example at my size the whole setup is never under 3000$ and when it comes to priests stuff I don’t even want to mention $ figures. So if you cannot afford the real thing then don’t go cheap it will make you look like a fool and your teacher has well. But anyway if you have a decent teacher he should be able to instruct you in proper Kimono Kitsuke/ Wearing and proper etiquette how to sit bow fold that thing up etc…


Now when it comes to my situation I now find it very natural to wear my Monkey suit whenever needed and have no shame to walk or awkward feeling walking around town with that stuff.

Simple question: has anybody here seen a Westerner who looks good in formal Japanese attire?

Besides Gishin of course.

Gishin wrote:

Ha Ha Tairuku good one!

Well if dressed up in only a fundoshi counts as being dressed in a formal Japanese way I have to say I look Damm good J at least according to my wife and the old ladies that work as cleaners in the Sento (Public bath).

Every westerner I have seen wearing this stuff (including myself) looks like a homeless guy who woke up in an alley nude after a bender and snatched a kimono off someone's clothesline and put it on hastily and incorrectly.

Informal kimono tops look good over black slacks and a black t-shirt. I have one of Jin Nyodo's. I figure if it was good enough for Jin Nyodo it's good enough for me. Full kimono, hakama and the rest of it doesn't look good on Westerners. What's the point of wearing something that makes you look and feel uncomfortable?

Formal wear goes along with gaikyoku, which is the equivalent of classical music. There is no reason to wear it for honkyoku. Similarly no real reason to sit seiza, which is unhealthy, other than for gaikyoku.

I play with a koto player who has 108 kimono and likes to wear 2 or 3 of them per performance. Party all the time!

One of the best western shakuhachi players told me he charges extra for kimono. That seems like the "best way".

Gishin wrote:

so we usually look like drunken sailors that just beat up some old fart and stole his Kimono.

Yep. That's what we look like, which is probably not the most dignified way to present the music we love so much.

I saw a TV show about new "modern" kimono which not only had appealing designs, but also were easier to put on and even fastened with velcro or something (I couldn't quite understand that part because it was not in English). They were very high fashion and started at about 300,000 yen or so. I would be into that.

Gishin wrote:

If you ever come to my place I can Doll you up fundoshi and all and by the end you will ike to wear the stuff

When it is shown the right way it is quie easy to wear.

Do you know how to put on a komuso outfit? I have a full komuso thang but of course have no idea how to put it on. It's also probably for a dude 1/4 my mass. There are about 6 robes of many different colors.

Tairaku wrote: "What's the point of wearing something that makes you look and feel uncomfortable?"

I actually find hakama quite comfortable...but I've been it wearing it for a while now, I guess; putting it on is no longer a problem but figuring out how to fold up the two kimono layers and the hakama neatly afterwards still causes me mental anguish sometimes so Tairaku's suggestion about charging extra sounds like a good idea. 

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/8420/imgp3091fz2.jpg

Last edited by Daniel Ryudo (2008-04-08 21:36:14)

If you read between the lines, maybe Tairaku already did explain. Was it the alley next to Jin Nyodo's house where you woke nude after a bender?

Well, at least you guys don't have to wear womens' kimono!
That is the king of uncomfortable clothing ! ! !

But at least wicked women like me can get away from this by telling concert organisers that since women did not play kimono traditionally there is no such thing as 'traditional clothing' for women players !

I have now worn the full komuso gear several times for concerts - also in the UK. And a man's kimono works much better as the obi is placed much lower... but still I am always very nervous when performing in even men's kimono... what if I didn't tie that obi well enough etc etc...

Tairaku wrote:

Josh wrote:

If you read between the lines, maybe Tairaku already did explain. Was it the alley next to Jin Nyodo's house where you woke nude after a bender?

Good one! Yes.

Either that or Jin Nyodo came to America in the early 60's and left some stuff behind with one of his students. This student died and the widow sold the items to a collector. Who passed them on to me. It's karma.

Is this the Kimono!

I found this photo in a stash of old shakuhachi related photos I collected in Japan. Not sure if this is Jin Nyodo in his younger days. If so, could this the Kimono that Tairaku now owns?! I should say that I've seen Tairaku wear the Kimono in performance and there's no question that he should not be wearing it...I wanted it for myself!

Here are a few other photos that may help with deciding on the proper shakuhachi dress code when performing.


Notice that the women are in traditional dress but the men in western suits. I think this photo was taken around the 1950's.


Double Standard?


Love the fat flute!

peace, Perry

                              Dai-taimu!!
                             
                                   

Seth wrote:

Surprising to see that none of the comments above address the most unique and visually arresting of all shakuhachi related vestiments: THE BASKET HAT.

Simply because the Fuke-Shu is dead and long gone.

The whole basket thing is mostly used only by members of those Fuke reenactment groups. In any case most pro's in Japan are not involved in the whole basket wearing thing. The Kimono is for wearing while preforming or just as daily clothes for some people still in today's world especially in areas like kyoto. Now to compare the Basket hat/Tengai thing with martial arts. Most iaido schools are at least 4 to 600 years old now its not because a teacher does a demonstration of his schol that he will wear the type of Kimono of that time. They will wear the standards Hakama for training or the Tuxedo type for special occasions which will be the exact same thing as shakuhachi players, tea teacher etc. So in a way the Basket thing is a thing of the past and does not directly connect with shakuhachi formal playing.

As a sidenote in Kyoto the MK Taxi company give a 10% discount to people that wear kimono and many times when I was fuly dressed in my robes the driver did not charge instead only requested that I bless his cab.