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Seth wrote:
Now the basket hat conjures different emotions in me as it fits in so well with the idea of honkyoku. It assists one's attempt to remove one's ego from the music. It makes the music free of a human face all together.
Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I feel that the ego is the soul of honkyoku.
Zak -- jinashi size queen
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Gishin-
Your posts are awesome. There always seem be enough culture nuggets in each one to inspire two or three sociology PhD dissertations.
I am realizing now that there is another layer of depth in this topic of traditional Japanese clothing and shakuhachi playing.
Clearly for many people playing shakuhachi is a Japanese cultural activity and wearing traditional Japanese clothing is an appropriate and logical adornment.
But I suspect that for many people the shakuhachi is evolving into a post-Japanese instrument much as the violin is no longer an Italian instrument. (I think this might be what Chris Moran is implying when he writes about the ‘great shakuhachi transmigration.’)
Japanese chamber music has always been and will always be 100% Japanese. But I would argue that honkyoku have the potential to be truly international / universal in the way that Bach’s cello sonatas and Beethoven’s symphonies have become.
I think this is part of the reason why I dislike the sight of western people dressing Japanese when playing shakuhachi. It actually contributes to the ghettoization of the shakuhachi within the tight confines of the Japanese Asian Fetish / Eastern Cultural Appreciation / Historical Re-enactment Realm.
I actually want to see the shakuhachi grow beyond the borders of Ancient Japan and for it to be seen as an object of wonder and beauty for all cultures. When I play shakuhachi I am not trying to communicate a Japanese cultural message – or trying to replicate a Japanese cultural experience – I am actually conveying something from myself as an individual. And therefore the Japanese dress strikes me as so inauthentic and…goofy.
Zak - I also have some comments to say about the hat and ego but I will save them for later…
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Tairaku wrote:
Every westerner I have seen wearing this stuff (including myself) looks like a homeless guy who woke up in an alley nude after a bender and snatched a kimono off someone's clothesline and put it on hastily and incorrectly.
Aren't you overlooking the fact that many of us give that same impression when dressed in our own clothing?
Tairaku wrote:
One of the best western shakuhachi players told me he charges extra for kimono. That seems like the "best way".
. . . the Zenmeister?
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Tengai is "best way".
Zak -- jinashi size queen
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rpowers wrote:
. . . the Zenmeister?
John Singer says the Xenmeister showed up at his joint dressed in WWII military garb or something.
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Seth wrote:
Simply put: The costume is goofy but the basket is cool. (Hat tip to Nyokai for using the word goofy. That word really captures my feelings on this topic quite well.)
But while I have seen many a kimono have yet to see a live performance with the basket.
Now the tengai reminds me of the oddest of shakuhachi fashion statements--one I have seen on the websites of some highly respected players. Decked out in the full formal array with hakama and haori, they top it off with the tengai for an "instant komuso" effect. The komuso's outfit (see Gishin's description) is definitely more "salt of the earth."
Still, you don't know goofy Wafuku until you have seen the Matsuken Samba.
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rpowers wrote:
Still, you don't know goofy Wafuku until you have seen the Matsuken Samba
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rpowers wrote:
rpowers wrote:
Still, you don't know goofy Wafuku until you have seen the Matsuken Samba
My freaking god!!! The pain is unbearable!! Shin san doing samba in a disco type Kimono. Ok well since you want to go down the slippery road of Japanese bad taste here is my answer to that.
So here is more pain for you all!!
One day I will quit it all and just buy myself one of those trucks and ride all over Japan!!
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=UgSDVkv26oQ
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Hey! Now don't start insulting one of the greatest dramas ever filmed in Japan! Turakku Yaro rules! and Bunta Sugawara is one of my favorite Yakuza movie actors(Takakura Ken's rival in Yakuza movie actors).
By the way Gishin, it's Tom.
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kanshiketsu wrote:
Hey! Now don't start insulting one of the greatest dramas ever filmed in Japan! Turakku Yaro rules! and Bunta Sugawara is one of my favorite Yakuza movie actors(Takakura Ken's rival in Yakuza movie actors).
By the way Gishin, it's Tom.
Yarrrrro!!
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The Sankyoku/Gaikyoku ensemble i play with is of the Tozan School. In the few performances i have played we have been in Casual Western as they were outdoor craft fairs. When our Sensei comes to the states the dress is a suit for ensemble performances. But that changes to more traditional clothing if the performance is at a buddhist center or related function.
I've also thrown on a short Hoari on over my regular clothes or samue when i've played on my back porch in the early AM or evening. Takes the chill off and kind of adds a little bit of tradition without going overboard, especially when working with Honkyoku.
I have to say i'm more comfortable in a Hakama and kimono than a suit and tie. How it looks? Well who knows :-)...
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Gishin wrote:
So here is more pain for you all!!
One day I will quit it all and just buy myself one of those trucks and ride all over Japan!!
This suggests a nightmare where you look in the rear view mirror and see a monster pachinko machine closing in on your back bumper.
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I have played a couple of performances with other students. Both were for Hinamatsuri events at a local church with a largely Japanese-American congragation. We all wore Kimono and Hakama. I think if the clothes are worn correctly, and the occupant is comfortable, it looks good regardless of the race of the wearer.
I disagree totally that only Japanese can look good in Japanese clothing. That same logic can lead to other areas with unfortunate conclusions.
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Tairaku wrote:
Simple question: has anybody here seen a Westerner who looks good in formal Japanese attire?
Besides Gishin of course.
Actually, I have. David Duncavage (my teacher), who at 6'3-4" and quite imposing in stature (not unlike you Tairaku) looks very put together, official and natural when dressed in formal dress hakama et al. Of course, he does know how to wear it, fold it, and what to wear with it. There are those who are able to competently wear Japanese (or other cultural) attire to such a degree that it looks like they belong in those clothes - given the context of the situation.
As Gishin said, as long as you know what and how to wear it. It's like some guy wearing a $2000 Armani suit with a grungy t-shirt and army boots.
Damon
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Funny question this. But, I was playing a concert last fall at Kumamoto castle when before the show while walking up to the stage a foreign, white American man walked past me and without breaking his gate decided to tell me, with something of a look of disgust, that I was over-doing it wearing the Japanese costume. Perhaps, that particular person, as a tourist, in an historically non-white setting, felt an incongruity when seeing me and was compelled to set me straight. Maybe he thought that I was an embarrassment to the 'club' that he felt we both belonged to by default. He didn't elaborate and just carried on, but it left me wondering, more due to the look he had on his face than his actual comment, whether he was suggesting that I had no right as a white person, who in his mind couldn't be Japanese, to be wearing the dress that I was. Limitations?
I noticed him in the audience while I was playing, taking photos. Was I going to end up as the centerfold for the goofiest dressed white guy in some fashion magazine somewhere in the world or on someone's hit list?
On the flip of that coin, I am always called upon at concerts by my fellow group members to assist them in getting dressed in their monsuki and hakama because they don't know how to do it properly themselves. To them, I am senpai and they see no incongruity at all in that. In fact, I often get the comment of 'sugoi kakoii' from Japanese folks when they see me dressed traditionally. They don't see it as strange, but rather are impressed by the vision.
After being here in Japan a while, you know when people are speaking honestly or politely. Perspective is where it's at baby.
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Seth,
At my Sensei's suggestion, I bought the hakama etc. I'm glad he did because it is requested on almost every gig I do. The thing is a pain to put on. Sometimes they have someone to help but one time after the person helped me they said "that'll be thirty bucks", plus paying $1500 for the thing in the first place.
If I get a chance to play and not wear it I'm glad. In the end it's a non-issue. When I'm on stage trying my best to sound as good as possible, the furthest thing from my mind is what I'm wearing. If the look far outweighs the ability then your derision is understandable and I'd probably join you. Posers are silly. However, perception is tricky business. I'm reminded of when I was playing a lot of African drums with Africans and as the only white guy thought I looked way hip and the funkiest white boy ever. But if I saw another white guy doing the same thing he looked like a poor lost sap to me. How can that be? What's the reality of it? I'm sure neither view point is accurate. But I think when I see somebody who bugs me it might some quality in myself I see and am disturbed by. Perception is tricky business.
Happy musing
jim
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I have that stuff and I use it if I "have" to, by that I mean if a superior shakuhachi sensei or the koto player demands it. I never wear it when the gig is under my control. I dress the same whether it's punk, jazz, blues or Japanese music because I am a the same person regardless of what I'm playing. I feel like the music comes out naturally, I am not acting out a role and I don't need a costume.
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Jim Thompson wrote:
The thing is a pain to put on. Sometimes they have someone to help but one time after the person helped me they said "that'll be thirty bucks", plus paying $1500 for the thing in the first place.
I really dont see how putting a men's Kimono is hard to put on and that someone would need to have a helper to put it on. Wearing a women's Kimono is another thing especially when there is timing involved so having somebdy asist will greatly help to put it on. But as fars as I am concerned putting on a men's Kimono regardles of being a nagagi or short top to use with hakama should not take more than 5 to 10 minutes maximum including the fundoshi part and Haramaki when I put it on.
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Gishin wrote:
I really dont see how putting a men's Kimono is hard to put on and that someone would need to have a helper to put it on. .
I've never been able to put it on by myself, LOL, maybe some of us are sartorially challenged. Fact is I use it so seldom that I forget everything about putting it on between uses. Maybe the people who lived in Japan seem to like wearing it better because they had a chance to get into the habit.
Here's a question (for anyone, not just Gishin). If you went to the symphony and the Japanese cellist was wearing a kimono and the Indian violinist was wearing a saree would you be offended? Think, "They shouldn't wear that, they should be wearing a western suit or dress?" I wouldn't.
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Tairaku wrote:
Gishin wrote:
I really dont see how putting a men's Kimono is hard to put on and that someone would need to have a helper to put it on. .
Here's a question (for anyone, not just Gishin). If you went to the symphony and the Japanese cellist was wearing a kimono and the Indian violinist was wearing a saree would you be offended? Think, "They shouldn't wear that, they should be wearing a western suit or dress?" I wouldn't.
Quite Honestly I dont really give a Tanuki's Oshiri The main thing is as long as whatever they wear is in tune with the place and that they wear the stuff in the proper way.
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I wear shorts and a t-shirt to every type of function -- working (teaching), playing ping-pong, attending a wedding, whatever. To hell with formal attire.
Zak -- jinashi size queen
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The point I made about helping others get dressed in the formal playing attire wasn't to suggest that it was difficult to do. It was a comment about not being considered different by Japanese because I can and do where it at times.
Gishin, you are right. It doesn't take more than 5 to 10 minutes to put it on properly, but as Brian suggests, it's done so infrequently by some , that sequence and direction are often forgotten. It's really kind of like tying a neck tie. And Brian, I'm with you in that if the gig is under my control, I won't wear the formal attire, but if it isn't and the wear is required, I'll do it.
As an aside, it appears that Japanese people think that larger men with a bit of girth and square shoulders (regardless of race) look better in a kimono/hakama than small, skinny men...for what it's worth.
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Jeff Cairns wrote:
As an aside, it appears that Japanese people think that larger men with a bit of girth and square shoulders (regardless of race) look better in a kimono/hakama than small, skinny men...for what it's worth.
Larger men with a bit of girth and square shoulders look better than small skinny men, period, anywhere on planet Earth and in any attire!
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I wear the hakama quit often because of my martial arts. I find them quit comfortable, more so then jeans. Also sometimes when we do training without a hakama I feel like I am running around in my underwear.
In Aikido class some people just do a simple knot, and it really sloppy. So it is really all about how to properly wear it.
As for Kimono I have never worn one I have always had a dogi to wear.
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I recently bought a Yukata (essentially an informal Kimono made of cotton), it's very comfortable and frankly I don't care how I look in it, (although I probably look GREAT) it feels nice around the house. It can be worn out casually, which I have not done, yet.
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