Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

World Shakuhachi Discussion / Go to Live Shakuhachi Chat

You are not logged in.


Tube of delight!

#1 2008-04-24 16:23:05

lossafunk
Member
From: syracuse NY
Registered: 2008-02-11
Posts: 39

Franks Cane and Rush supply

A week ago today, I ordered 12 black bamboo shakuhachi blanks from Franks. I got them today. I was super excited, that is untill I opened the box. 6 were unuseable to say the least. Crackes through and between every node(not to mention the root-end of three). I called franks. I was told there was nothing they could do, they have a disclaimer! Depressed, I took my remaining 6 to the bathroom and began to clean them with a damp sponge. To my surprise I don't have 6 unusable bamboo pieces, I have 12! Cracks And splits everywhere. So not only do I not have any bamboo., but I'm out 120 dollars( 87 plus shipping). So anyway as I am now broke my venture into making shakuhachi is at an end, for now at least. I can't afford a hit like that. Thanks Franks Cane and Rush supply.

sorry all had to vent!
-Todd

Last edited by lossafunk (2008-04-24 16:37:21)


-gravity sucks-

Offline

 

#2 2008-04-24 16:35:52

gmiller
Member
From: Ozello Trail, Fla
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 109

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

Hey Todd - all is not lost; try to super-humidify these pieces; the cracks might close. Bamboo and cracks go together; perhaps here is the opportunity for a positive experience...... closing cracks, filling cracks, binding, etc.......

Luck....

Offline

 

#3 2008-04-24 16:38:16

lossafunk
Member
From: syracuse NY
Registered: 2008-02-11
Posts: 39

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

Most of these are almost in two pieces. Cracked is an understatement.


-gravity sucks-

Offline

 

#4 2008-04-24 16:48:03

lossafunk
Member
From: syracuse NY
Registered: 2008-02-11
Posts: 39

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

It's not that im mad, it's just I could have paid a couple of dollars more gone through my texas connection and had the stuff in my hands a few weeks later, with a garantee instead of a disclaimer. so I guess it's me being mad at myself, for being impatient and cheap. live and learn I guess.


-gravity sucks-

Offline

 

#5 2008-04-24 19:37:18

Benjamin
Member
From: Indianapolis, IN
Registered: 2008-04-19
Posts: 45
Website

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

Hey Todd-

I have ordered from franks before and find that the black blanks do crack a lot more than the yellow.  First flutes that I made in high school were made from franks bamboo.  The black flute.....cracked and pitched 3 years ago.  The flute made from yellow madake.......still plays great not a crack on it.  I have been working with a couple flutes here recently and yes the yellow does crack a bit from time to time, but not to the degree that the black has in the past.  Hope this helps some.


Ben


Coming, all is clear, no doubt about it.  Going, all is clear, without a doubt.
What then is all? -Hosshin

Offline

 

#6 2008-04-24 19:43:26

lossafunk
Member
From: syracuse NY
Registered: 2008-02-11
Posts: 39

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

gmiller wrote:

Hey Todd - all is not lost; try to super-humidify these pieces; the cracks might close. Bamboo and cracks go together; perhaps here is the opportunity for a positive experience...... closing cracks, filling cracks, binding, etc.......

Luck....

I just needed remember even bad fortune is good fortune. I'll just use these pieces of bamboo to hone my flute making skills in other areas.

-todd

Last edited by lossafunk (2008-04-24 19:50:14)


-gravity sucks-

Offline

 

#7 2008-04-24 20:54:52

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

That is not good business, I use black bamboo from my backyard, very little of it cracks and never right through.
I have made over 200 flutes and they have gone all over the planet.
Perhaps some cracks have developed but I have not been informed.
It sounds to me like they have suffered rapid drying or heating. Or were very dry and encountered too much moisture too quickly. That they all cracked suggests either they sent you a bad lot or something happened in transition. I am interested to know if you have any ideas as to why they all cracked so badly.
Do you know where the bamboo originated ?
Did they give you any reason why this occurred ?

Kel.


Kia Kaha !

Offline

 

#8 2008-04-25 06:58:58

lossafunk
Member
From: syracuse NY
Registered: 2008-02-11
Posts: 39

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

it's bamboo, it cracks. nothing's forever. I just wanted to relay my experience. The bamboo was super dry. the nodes were brittle like potato chips. when i called franks, the girl on the phone , told me the cracking, and I quote, was due to "differences in barometric pressure". so i dunno. I've found uses for most of the bamboo. The rest goes on the bonfire tonite.

-Todd


-gravity sucks-

Offline

 

#9 2008-04-25 07:28:02

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

Hi Todd, Sorry to hear about the cracked boo.

lossafunk wrote:

it's bamboo, it cracks. nothing's forever. I just wanted to relay my experience. The bamboo was super dry. the nodes were brittle like potato chips. when i called franks, the girl on the phone , told me the cracking, and I quote, was due to "differences in barometric pressure". so i dunno. I've found uses for most of the bamboo. The rest goes on the bonfire tonite.

-Todd

As George suggested, they can most likely be saved by getting them damp and then binding. I do this often because I hate to waste bamboo. The great thing about binding is that they'll most likely not crack again! smile

Good luck, Perry


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

Offline

 

#10 2008-04-25 07:47:03

lossafunk
Member
From: syracuse NY
Registered: 2008-02-11
Posts: 39

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

I've never used black bamboo before. Are the nodes supposed to be that brittle?
Also any tips on trimming the roots? I have 11 more I can use to practice on but there has to be an easier way. I've tried using pruning shears cutting them one at a time, the one i did last night took like 3 hours. any help would be grately appreciated.

-Todd


-gravity sucks-

Offline

 

#11 2008-04-25 09:54:39

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

Hi Todd,

lossafunk wrote:

I've never used black bamboo before. Are the nodes supposed to be that brittle?
Also any tips on trimming the roots? I have 11 more I can use to practice on but there has to be an easier way. I've tried using pruning shears cutting them one at a time, the one i did last night took like 3 hours. any help would be grately appreciated.

-Todd

In Japan, many makers who still do it the old fashioned way saw the tiny roots off with a fine kerf (tooth) saw. Then different grades of files are used to shape the root.

Many makers also use a bench top disc grinder as it does the job much quicker. Just be careful as it removes a lot of material quickly. The draw back with this method is it doesn't have the sane "hand made" feel.

Good luck, Perry


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

Offline

 

#12 2008-04-25 09:57:34

stevetree
Member
Registered: 2008-02-16
Posts: 10

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

Todd,

My first-ever shipment of black bamboo root blanks, just a few months ago, arrived with 4 of the 9 pieces badly cracked - so I should be glad it wasn't all of them.  I have been able to salvage three of them (so far) by wrapping with damp towels and binding.  Good binding practice, and good to have some less than perfect blanks to make my other bumbling errors on...

As to root trimming, I had no luck with pruning shears, either.  After trying several approaches I've settled on a combination of hacksaw (which I also use for cutting the end off - you might want to practice that, too), and a "dowel/dovetail/detail" pullsaw make by Shark Saw, which seems to be widely available (including at Home Depot).  That gets them to roughly the length I want, then I go from there with very coarse sandpaper on a rubber block.  It's not elegant, but it's fairly quick.

Disclaimer:  I am a complete novice at this.  Doubtless there are better ways; this is just how I'm doing it at the moment.

- Robert

Offline

 

#13 2008-04-25 11:40:07

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

lossafunk wrote:

To my surprise I don't have 6 unusable bamboo pieces, I have 12! Cracks And splits everywhere. So not only do I not have any bamboo., but I'm out 120 dollars( 87 plus shipping).
-Todd

Todd,

Sorry to hear of your bamboo woes. Unfortunately, cracking comes with the territory. I haven't had much luck with Frank's black bamboo either.  I've found it tends to crack more often. Also, stock that did not crack were not as good players as his yellow stock turned out the be. The bores were unusual and not the best for tone quality.

Still, Frank's is about the cheapest root end shakuhachi stock available. So, I've come to expect low yields and the occasional bad batch. One hundred percent cracked on your first order is a tough one though!

Would it help to say that one day you may smile at this memory?

lossafunk wrote:

Also any tips on trimming the roots?

To remove the root ball, I've used saws as well as disc and table belt sanders, finishing with curved files.

lossafunk wrote:

I just needed remember even bad fortune is good fortune. I'll just use these pieces of bamboo to hone my flute making skills in other areas.

That's a good attitude, Todd. So, now it looks like you have an enforced lesson in flute repair. Bamboo really is the BOSS! Welcome to shakuhachi making. mad

Stay with it!

Ken

Offline

 

#14 2008-04-25 14:30:09

Benjamin
Member
From: Indianapolis, IN
Registered: 2008-04-19
Posts: 45
Website

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

Todd,

It is a shame that you had such rotten luck with the bamboo.  I'm sure you are frustrated as I am to find decent bamboo.  So I was wondering about  all you seasoned veterans out there, aside from tromping out in the green groves of Asia, is there any other place to obtain bamboo?


Coming, all is clear, no doubt about it.  Going, all is clear, without a doubt.
What then is all? -Hosshin

Offline

 

#15 2008-04-25 15:39:08

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

Benjamin wrote:

Todd,

It is a shame that you had such rotten luck with the bamboo.  I'm sure you are frustrated as I am to find decent bamboo.  So I was wondering about  all you seasoned veterans out there, aside from tromping out in the green groves of Asia, is there any other place to obtain bamboo?

Benjamin,

There is inexpensive non-root bamboo to be found at nurseries and online bamboo warehouses. Tonkin seems to be a good non-root bamboo for shakuhachi. Mejiro sells better grade Japanese madake for a higher price. Sometimes, makers are willing to sell bamboo, but never their best pieces. One of the best ways to get excellent quality bamboo other than harvesting yourself is to form relationships with people experienced in shakuhachi who live near the source. Of course you must pay for their expertise. You can also find those with less expertise and probably pay less. It all depends on what quality level you are looking for as well as your budget.

Ken

Offline

 

#16 2008-04-28 22:21:50

lossafunk
Member
From: syracuse NY
Registered: 2008-02-11
Posts: 39

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

A quick update: On a whim I had a friend outside of Austin, TX ship me six pieces of his local grown black bamboo. Three of these reached me in a condition akin to being beaten by professional wrestlers on steroids with bats. The other three flawless. Though I had him take much care in how he shipped them (root wrapped in newsprint then the whole culm sealed in a plastic bag) I'm lead to believe, it's not franks bamboo thats bad, it's that black bamboo doesn't travel well. Maybe being in those big brown trucks driving it for days on end?

-ToDd


-gravity sucks-

Offline

 

#17 2008-04-28 23:51:33

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

They may have gotten cracked because something heavy was dropped on them. could this be possible ?
You said Franks lot came in a box, was the box damaged at all ?

Kel.


Kia Kaha !

Offline

 

#18 2008-07-03 23:55:52

wanderartist
Member
Registered: 2008-07-03
Posts: 1

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

I am sorry to hear about your problem with Franks Supply, but if it means anything it kept me from making a mistake. I was going to start my first shakuhachi making experiment with blanks  from Frank, but now I will not. I sent the company an email asking about cracks and explained to them how a crack would make the project 'difficullt', but they NEVER replied. Thanks for relating the story. I hope your next foray meets with success.

Offline

 

#19 2008-07-04 08:11:02

jaybeemusic
Member
From: Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: 2006-06-22
Posts: 145

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

I'm not trying to play the devil's advocate but, i've ordered from them 4 times and i've never had a problem.  I live in Canada where it's pretty dry and i've always been satisfied.  never tried the black bamboo though...

jacques


It's better to keep your mouth closed and let people "think" that you're stupid, than to open it, and remove all doubt.

Offline

 

#20 2008-07-04 11:57:45

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

jaybeemusic wrote:

I'm not trying to play the devil's advocate but, i've ordered from them 4 times and i've never had a problem.  I live in Canada where it's pretty dry and i've always been satisfied.  never tried the black bamboo though...

jacques

Good point Jacques. I've found the golden bamboo at Frank's to be better than their black bamboo. Buying in larger batches will increase your odds of getting some nice pieces. These are not as high quality as the best Japanese madake. However, they can still make decent shakuhachi. I think they are ideal for learning. At a small fraction of the price of madake, a handful of clunkers in a batch (on the average) are still a very good deal.

Perhaps the reality is that it's just not easy to get good bamboo. It's very hard work and sometimes dangerous to find and harvest the best pieces yourself. Therefore, it's very expensive to buy the best pieces from others. It can be risky to buy low cost pieces. All this can be frustrating. Maybe it's only fair? Did I just hear my bamboo chuckling downstairs? lol

Offline

 

#21 2008-07-04 13:31:02

madoherty
Moderator
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 366

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

jaybeemusic wrote:

I'm not trying to play the devil's advocate but, i've ordered from them 4 times and i've never had a problem.  I live in Canada where it's pretty dry and i've always been satisfied.  never tried the black bamboo though...

If we are keeping it democratic... I have not had a problem with bamboo from Frank's in my two (small) orders.  I live in non-humid Colorado.  I would probably order from Frank's again if I were in the Shakuhachi-making game.

Offline

 

#22 2008-08-10 22:01:27

Sizzorfite
Member
Registered: 2008-08-10
Posts: 1

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

Hi everyone. smile
I live about 20 minutes from Franks. Every couple of weeks I go there and pick out some root end. It's a lot of fun to just take your time and pick out the best pieces (cause he has hundreds). I feel like a kid in a candy store.  smile
Steve

Last edited by Sizzorfite (2008-08-10 22:02:37)

Offline

 

#23 2008-08-11 04:55:13

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

FWIW I was told by one sensei in Japan that black bamboo is not suitable for shakuhachi making because of its tendency to crack. I would stick to madake...

Toby

Offline

 

#24 2008-08-11 07:40:21

lossafunk
Member
From: syracuse NY
Registered: 2008-02-11
Posts: 39

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

I just (about a month ago) brought some black bamboo back to NY from the south east (georgia, alabama, etc.). i've had cracking issues with most of these pieces. There are exceptions though, and these culms are amazingly thick.


-gravity sucks-

Offline

 

#25 2008-08-11 12:11:53

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: Franks Cane and Rush supply

Toby wrote:

FWIW I was told by one sensei in Japan that black bamboo is not suitable for shakuhachi making because of its tendency to crack. I would stick to madake...

Toby

Hey Toby,

Black bamboo certainly does not compare to Japanese Madake, and it does has more of a propensity for splitting. But, it is commercially obtainable here in the US and can work to make a decent shakuhachi depending upon the fabrication techniques and skill of the craftsman.

If used for simple shakuhachi-like instruments, it will want to crack. I make my Daily Zen Shakuhachi out of the top end of the poles. These are usually imperfect pieces,  thin walled with gutters and cut off branch nodes. These can be fine playing simple flutes. I came to shakuhachi making as an artist. And like many classically trained artists, we like to make sketches. Very often, a sketch has it's own magic and people prefer sketches over finished paintings as they reveal the process of the artist. Besides, I HATE to waste bamboo:)

I used to call these hybrid shakuhachi. They generally can have a nice lively tone but more like the xiao than the shakuhachi.  The thinner walls produces a brighter sound. As always, if the aspect ratio is correct, bore shape in decent taper to the proper end and the holes are placed in the right places, it can function as a simple shakuhachi-like flute.

When I'm making these, I bind them first as just the breath from tuning can cause a sudden snap!

http://www.yungflutes.com/logphotos/blackbindings.jpg

Black bamboo is a low cost and natural material that allows curious individuals to explore shakuhachi making without going bankrupt. Then dedicated individuals can purchase blank Madake from Japan at $100 a pop!

All the best, Perry


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson

Google