Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

amokrun · 2008-05-20 07:52:17

The school I'm working in right now gets torn down in just a week weeks. As a result we have a ton of all sorts of furniture in here, some of which get thrown away because there is no room for them anywhere. I found a couple of small display cases which have a wooden frame and a glass door which can be opened. They happen to be an almost perfect fit for a 1.8 shakuhachi with 5-10cm room on both sides and just enough depth. I think I could fit at least three and maybe as many as five shakuhachi on these depending on how much space I leave between them.

The cases are not air tight currently. Although the wooden frame is in perfect shape and at requires little more than perhaps some paint and minor work on the seams, the glass door leaves a tiny gap between it and the frame when closed. I think that it shouldn't take more than some rubber stuff between the door and the frame to make that part tight enough. The door has a lock on it which makes it stay closed pretty tightly.

I currently keep my flutes in plastic bags. I blow into the bags as I close them but that's the only source of moisture they have. I would naturally love to be able to take the bags out of the equation as the flutes certainly look a lot better without them. I keep thinking that a well sealed box should work just as well. It might even be easier to maintain a moisture level inside of those as there is more space.

Do any of you have experience with keeping your flutes in a case like this? Did you need some sort of source of humidity inside there or is it enough to just rely on the amount of moisture in air? How important is it to make the box properly sealed?

Mujitsu · 2008-05-20 11:22:19

amokrun wrote:
How important is it to make the box properly sealed?

Matti,

I think it depends on your particular climate. I'd be careful about storing if you live in a climate that is dry or has extreme temperature fluctuations. It's less of an issue in humid, temperate and tropical climates. My guess is that in Helsinki it might be best to err on the safe side.

Ken

Tairaku 太楽 · 2008-05-20 16:13:32

Flutes crack when they are exposed to fluctuations in humidity. Temperature is not really an issue. A lot of people over humidify their flutes. Then when they take them out of the case and into dry air they crack. It's true that flutes which are always humid won't crack. This is one of the reasons Aborigines store their didgeridoos in rivers. But you have to be careful about moving them between wet and dry. Finland will be very bad for this.

indigo · 2008-05-21 10:23:36

Have built 3 large cabinets for storing shakuhachi.

The main quality is that the cabinet is air tight, which is achieved by using "zero-seals" from www.zerointernational.com/.

The type of rubber seal you use depends on the size of the cabinet.

To raise humidity in the cabinet place a sponge in a tray of water. This will bring the humidity well above 70%.

Controlled ventilation will reduce the humidity %.

This system has worked well in New York where we have large seasonal fluctuations in temperature and humidity.

Best of luck

Bas Nijenhuis · 2009-01-26 16:50:22

Amokrun, how are the display cases comming along?

I am currently thinking about this same subject; humidity (not the casings, but storage), I've read somewhere on the forum that 70% is the humidity which bamboo is accustomed to....is that right?

I recently bought a humidifier which brought op the humidity to 55% Would you consider that enough to store the shaku 'naked'? I now put them in my plastic bags, also breathing into them when finished and sealing with a rubberband.
I prefer to display them in my living room as they are without the plastic bag.

Tairaku, you state that some people overhumidify their flutes, what does that mean? (over 70%) and is that bad perse?
what then is better:
storing in 70%, playing in 55% or:
storing in 55% playinh in 55% (less change, but lower)

I am not overly concerned about cracking, but I like to prevent it if I can anyway.

Bas

Justin · 2009-01-27 06:06:01

I would say 55% would be fine. I would have suggested between 50~60% as humidity of choice. Definitely put a humidity meter in the case so you can check it. Even a glass of water in the case might help. I have not made an actual case, so I'd also be very interested to here your results.

Brian, do you use a humidity meter? What's your opinion on 50~60%?

Nyogetsu · 2009-01-27 14:46:01

I have used one of INDIGO's cases for the past 5 years, and they are "State of the Art"..
I have over 110 "Japanese-made" root-end, top grade flutes inside, and have not had one crack on any flute..
I do not use Dampits or plastic inside the case, but I do when I travel with flutes (which is often).
My previous case was "compromsed" in terms of the gaskets, and I had over 30 flutes crack in one year (they were all masterfully repaired by Monty and Perry).

Tairaku also has one of Indigo's cases, as does Barbara Nyoi Krooss (who co-wrote "Sui-Zen: Blowing Meditation) with me.

You can't get anything better!
Nyogetsu

Bas Nijenhuis · 2009-01-27 15:28:03

Hmm I'll check those out! thanks for the tip Nyogetsu.

I did:
Hah I was expecting to find a nice\nifty glass display case...
Well if it works it works. I've not seen those here in Europe though.

Justin · 2009-01-27 20:52:24

Hi Ronnie
What humidity do you keep it at?

Nyogetsu · 2009-01-28 07:45:02

Hi Justin,

I have 3 shelves in the Shakuhachi case. Each shelf has a plastic dish full of water, a little bit of tea-tree oil, and a sponge. Of course the wayer is changed periodically. Since the case is air-tight , the humidity is ridiculously high. I find that the tea-tree oil inhibits mold - although the occassional flute may get a bit moldy. But the mold is easy to get rid of and will not cause cracking.

Since I travel with the flutes with Dampit, plastic bag, and rubber band, the humidity is kept - always- at a ridiculously high rate.
I believe that the importance is that the humidity is kept as consistant as possible.
I also believe that the humidity % could be a lower percentage (say 60% or so), but for me it would be difficult to maintain that % at all times.
Best of luck to everybody.
But again, if you commission INDIGO to make you a case, you won't need luck !!

Nyogetsu

Bas Nijenhuis · 2009-01-28 09:39:30

Nyogetsu,

maybe I after reading it, didn't understand well what a Indigo case is, I thought it was a plastic box, with an airtight seal, but you are talking about commissioning it doesn't make sense. I found out! Indigo is a fellow forum member... and he/she made the case. Now I understand.

Bas

Last edited by Bas Nijenhuis (2009-01-28 09:56:13)

indigo · 2009-01-28 12:37:40

Hello everybody

The shakuhachi cases (instrument humidors) in question are made of:

case #1. cherry veneer plywood, solid cherry, 1/2" safety glass, Zero Seals, Zero hinges, Baldwin mortise lock and handle, water tight finish, high quality lockable castors

case #2. maple veneer plywood, solid maple, 1/2" safety glass, Zero Seals, Zero hinges, Baldwin mortise lock and handle, water tight finish , high quality lockable castors

case #3. solid southern yellow pine, 1/2" safety glass, Zero seals, Zero hinges, Baldwin mortise lock and handle, water tight finish, high quality lockable castors

The cases are refidgerator size approxamately 84" high, 27"wide and 24" deep with the sides beinig 1 1/2" thick, with a 3/4" back and a 1 1/2" thick slolid wood style and rail door with a glass panel mounted on a 1 3/4" solid frame.

The main quality is that the cabinet is air tight, which is achieved by using "zero-seals" from www.zerointernational.com/.

The type of rubber seal you use depends on the size of the cabinet.

To raise humidity in the cabinet place a sponge in a tray of water. This will bring the humidity well above 70%.

Controlled ventilation will reduce the humidity %.

These instrument humidors were designed and made by me to house collections of flutes. The case I see on a regular basis is in Ronnie's Dojo in NYC and the system seems to be holding up. The case and door are not changing shape due to the difference in humidity outside and inside the case. Flutes are not cracking. The airtight seal is holding up since the case was made I guess about 5 years ago.

I do not have a case as I have few bamboo flutes. Plastic bags and cello dampits are used to maintain the humidity. For a while I did not use the dampit for my 1.8 and I noticed that the joint became loose, causing some worry, hence the use of the dampit again and all is well. Humidity is very important for the storage of shakuhachi. Cello dampits can be purchased at Ideal Music in NYC for < $20.00/dampit.

I have recently thought that making an instrument humidor from recycled timber recovered from watertowers in New York would be interesting. The material is cypress, cedar or redwood(cut many years ago) and each piece has a black waterlne in the wood that is usually a dark red colour. The material would be very stable and light as well as interesting to look at.

If any one has further questions about the instrument humidor please contact me at vze43y2n@verizon.net.

All the best

indigo

Last edited by indigo (2009-01-28 13:02:17)

Dun Romin · 2009-01-28 16:14:14

Probably not as goodlooking and certainly not so elaborated as what I read above, but I simply use pieces of synthetic outlet-pipes with their perfect fitting airtight seals; glue some molton-like cloth on the inside (on which I can put some drops of water when there is low humidity) and make it pleasant looking on the outside. (Sorry don't know how to insert a picture in here). Light weight, good protection, simple to take the flute out and put it back again. It's so simple I almost feel stupid now I've read all this. I hope using the outletpipes as cases is not considered bad for the flutes.

Justin · 2009-02-01 10:13:19

My solution has been to keep one storage room humidified with 2 deep trays of water in them. The trays are not so big but each have absorbant boards sitting in them, something like plaster boards. That draws the water up and out into the air. In the rest of my home (there is bamboo everywhere!) I use humidifiers. I don't know if they are used in other countries. I had never heard of them living in England or India but here in Japan they are quite popular. Small boxes about the size of a speaker which eject humid air for hours at a time. That is perfect for keeping the room humid so that you can freely keep your shakuhachi out of any bags. Here I use this only in the winter, enough to keep humidity above 50%.

On a rainy day, I open my windows for an hour or so and let the humid air fill the larger spaces of my home. That's really welcome as it can take a lot of water to humidify a big room.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk · 2009-02-03 20:08:24

I see lots of theory and mental masturbation about something that seems quite simple to me.

If people want to build cabinets for the sake of it and make them as well engineered as possible to protect their flutes this is a great thing.

I use a sonic type humidifier and I keep my house at minimum 50% all year long. This is a simple solution and will cost you around max 100$ for a standard condo/apartment. This put aside if a flute wants to crack it will anyway depending on many things when was it shipped what was difference between the humidity level from 1 place to the other, was the flute left in a cold container etc. Shipping flutes in the winter here for example is just not recommended.

Bas Nijenhuis · 2010-09-18 02:07:59

I have bought a Venta airwasher myself after some time reading these posts and wanting to get the humidity up. In the winter it can go to 30% and summer is more like 55% (which is fine). The thing is: I have a normal room of 35m2 and pumping 5liters of water into the air each day, makes it higher but not to my likings. It will add 10'% of humidity at max.
Well for not storing my fluts continuesly in plastic bags I also build a little shakuhachi humidor or case. It works very nice, humidity is always in the range of 55-63.
You can see more about it on my blog here (an older entry), pictures and the like:
http://shakuhachibas.blogspot.com/2010/ … -case.html

Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

#1 2008-05-20 07:52:17

Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#2 2008-05-20 11:22:19

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

amokrun wrote:

#3 2008-05-20 16:13:32

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#4 2008-05-21 10:23:36

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#5 2009-01-26 16:50:22

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#6 2009-01-27 06:06:01

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#7 2009-01-27 14:46:01

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#8 2009-01-27 15:28:03

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#9 2009-01-27 20:52:24

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#10 2009-01-28 07:45:02

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#11 2009-01-28 09:39:30

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#12 2009-01-28 12:37:40

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#13 2009-01-28 16:14:14

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#14 2009-02-01 10:13:19

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#15 2009-02-03 20:08:24

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

#16 2010-09-18 02:07:59

Re: Building a display case for shakuhachi - things to consider?

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