Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

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Tube of delight!

#1 2008-05-23 01:53:57

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Please put in your requests

Just wanted to ask what members would like to talk about in the Buddhist section. This section has been quiet for a while so if you have any subjects you would like me to write stuff on please don’t be shy and make your request. Sometimes well… most of times it is a bit hard for me to even think of a subject since I feel that I might sound as if I am speaking only specialized Buddhist mumbo Jumbo. I will be away from home and a PC until Monday night hopefully there will be some requests for me to write some stuff.

Ok so just enough time to take a shower kiss the wife and head out to the airport for my early flight to Cleveland for the concerts with Chikuzen. This will be my first time to perform on stage apart from when I used to be a male stripper wink well its just that it feels a bit strange that this time the people will be there for the musical quality of the chants with Shakuhachi which is much different than singing in temples where people are not there for the musical part of the chants.

Ok have a nice weekend everyone!


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#2 2008-05-23 10:01:23

madoherty
Moderator
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 362

Re: Please put in your requests

"specialized Buddhist mumbo Jumbo" sounds just about perfect to me.

Lately I have been thinking about Buddhist practice and the shakuhachi.  I guess I am wondering if there are wittings of Zen masters that incorporate the shakuhachi as practice... or are honkyoku testaments to that discourse in themselves...

Thanks Gishin.  I wish I could be in that audience!

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#3 2008-05-23 10:53:00

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

I am not sure if there are specific texts on shakuhachi, but the Soto sect encorporates creative practices (caligraphy, poetry, painting, and others) as part of their daily practice.  Perhaps this creative practice in general could be a topic of discussion.  This is not stressed so much by my Dharma instructor in Linji, but it is an interest of mine.  I'd enjoy learning more about it as well.  I may have a resource on another board that I can exploit for some information on it as well.  I'll look into it.  It seems that Gishin practices some of these arts within the Linji tradition, so I'd enjoy hearing his comments on his own practice and creative practice in general.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#4 2008-05-23 17:47:33

Jordan
Member
From: Vancouver
Registered: 2006-12-08
Posts: 24
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

Gishin, could we get a decent Bio of Kakushin,  I have heard that he stuidied at Shingon temple, got the precepts from Dogen, then traveled to China and received Inka from Mumon.  I would love to see some supporting information on this, or at least the references.

Thank you fro your efforts,
Jordan


Be Well and Happy!
Gassho!

Jordan

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#5 2008-05-23 18:16:20

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3207
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

In relation to what Jordan mentions how about a list of the various Buddhism related shakuhachi myths and a status report on how factual they actually are.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#6 2008-05-24 20:12:45

Lance
Member
Registered: 2008-01-18
Posts: 74

Re: Please put in your requests

If that's not enough to contemplate, maybe a little review on "Zen" in general, in that 'Zen Buddism' is apparently not really Buddism, and not religious practice, but simply discovering the essence of all things though your own methods leading to enlightenment, not through any dogma or specific ritual.


“The firefly is a good lesson in light, and darkness”

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#7 2008-05-25 00:10:26

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3207
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

How about, "Teaching shakuhachi from a Buddhist perspective" i.e. what and how you would teach it to people who only want to do the Zen thing and don't care about it as a musical instrument.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#8 2008-05-25 14:03:09

Lance
Member
Registered: 2008-01-18
Posts: 74

Re: Please put in your requests

I LOVE that last question...  personally I have no interest in learning 'songs' for the Shakuhachi, as a matter of fact I am resistant to any memorization or practice based on repeating any written music. I feel like I would find myself repeating these phrases I have learned rather than simply playing what I 'feel', and I want my playing to be spontaneous.


“The firefly is a good lesson in light, and darkness”

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#9 2008-05-25 15:31:02

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Please put in your requests



If you don't like to play scales, play scales until you DO like to play them."

                                                                               ~ Artur Rubenstein


If you want to be 'spontaneous', you must first learn something, so that you have some tools to be 'spontaneous' WITH.

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#10 2008-05-25 16:56:38

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: Please put in your requests

Ditto Edosan. Well said. I'm always suspicious of philosophies that give you an excuse to not deal with the hard stuff. Lance, can you imagine trying to learn a language and not repeating anything anybody said? Leonard Berstein quote: Freedom isn't doing whatever you want whenever you want, it's HAVING THE ABILITY to do what you want.


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

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#11 2008-05-25 17:20:07

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3207
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

Of course that is not what I meant when talking about shakuhachi from a Buddhist perspective.

If you want to have a flute you just blow on without any musical framework or restrictions I recommend Iwabue. That's associated with Shinto. It's an interesting sound.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#12 2008-05-25 19:23:55

Lance
Member
Registered: 2008-01-18
Posts: 74

Re: Please put in your requests

I agree, mostly, with the above.

Right now I'm happy just learning on my own. I realize more and more that I'll have to have some structured practice/lessons to progress, but, I still don't like the idea...  and it's more than just being lazy, it doesn't feel right to me, right now.


“The firefly is a good lesson in light, and darkness”

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#13 2008-05-25 19:34:03

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3207
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

I just posted a groovy iwabue track on my myspace page for those who want to hear what truly free blowing sounds like. It's the second part of a series of duets with Dr. Eugene Chadbourne on electric rake.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#14 2008-05-25 19:40:34

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3207
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

Gishin wrote:

This will be my first time to perform on stage apart from when I used to be a male stripper wink!

Too much information, but at least it explains how you and Chikuzen met. wink


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#15 2008-05-25 21:21:35

Zakarius
Member
From: Taichung, TAIWAN
Registered: 2006-04-12
Posts: 361

Re: Please put in your requests

Gishin wrote:

This will be my first time to perform on stage apart from when I used to be a male stripper wink

And I thought the chanting from the Monshogodo CD was coming from a purely religious tradition... now I realize that the chanting of the sutras may in fact have been the Kama Sutra big_smile

Zak -- jinashi size queen


塵も積もれば山となる -- "Chiri mo tsumoreba yama to naru." -- Piled-up specks of dust become a mountain.

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#16 2008-05-25 22:03:01

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

Thank you all for the fuel you gave me. I am still in Ohio after our series of concerts and  will be back home tommorw afternoon. I will then read all that stuff and start cranking out info for all of you.

Have a good night or day !


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#17 2008-05-26 21:41:06

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

madoherty wrote:

"specialized Buddhist mumbo Jumbo" sounds just about perfect to me.

Lately I have been thinking about Buddhist practice and the shakuhachi.  I guess I am wondering if there are wittings of Zen masters that incorporate the shakuhachi as practice... or are honkyoku testaments to that discourse in themselves...

Thanks Gishin.  I wish I could be in that audience!

Humm there is blurbs here and there but no final or decisive writings like you would find on seated meditation or the Zen mode of thinking etc..

As I had mentioned before when comparing the Komuso to the Yamabushi that were also wiped out at the same time. The Yamabushi almost lost no scriptures etc but Komuso would have lost everything? I strongly feel that there was nothing much that existed other than the Music itself and some historical records as to who what when where. Anyawy lately I have started to investigate Taoism since I feel that the music itslef could have been greatly influenced by Taoism, not in its sounds but in the esthetic.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#18 2008-05-26 21:47:01

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

Jordan wrote:

Gishin, could we get a decent Bio of Kakushin,  I have heard that he stuidied at Shingon temple, got the precepts from Dogen, then traveled to China and received Inka from Mumon.  I would love to see some supporting information on this, or at least the references.

Thank you fro your efforts,
Jordan

Humm I wish there was more on Kakushin but in both English and Japanese I did not find anythng. Now I would not say that if I did not find anything of value that ultimately there is nothing but this would lead me to think that since Japanese were always very meticulous in keeping their old stuff their would be something out there since he was so famous and also the fact that he studied under Mumon in China. I feel that at the time there must have been many issues for him to be in Shingon and Zen at the same time so I guess he got pissed off and chose to let go of the mundane worl d of political  Buddhism of that time.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#19 2008-05-26 21:50:45

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

lowonthetotem wrote:

I am not sure if there are specific texts on shakuhachi, but the Soto sect encorporates creative practices (caligraphy, poetry, painting, and others) as part of their daily practice.  Perhaps this creative practice in general could be a topic of discussion.  This is not stressed so much by my Dharma instructor in Linji, but it is an interest of mine.  I'd enjoy learning more about it as well.  I may have a resource on another board that I can exploit for some information on it as well.  I'll look into it.  It seems that Gishin practices some of these arts within the Linji tradition, so I'd enjoy hearing his comments on his own practice and creative practice in general.

I feel the whole arts and Soto thing is more a modern thing that was started in modern times and espeicially in North-America. Now for it being more connected with Soto than Rinzai I did not see much difference between both. Anyway its all compatible. The point being that Zazen is all good but I feel that one should be able to actualize himself in a form of Physical practice, arts etc... outside of just freaking Zazen and Koan Sutras etc... So this is why my main thing is Shakuhachi.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#20 2008-05-26 21:51:49

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

Tairaku wrote:

In relation to what Jordan mentions how about a list of the various Buddhism related shakuhachi myths and a status report on how factual they actually are.

Yes I will take the time to make this one a Historical sticky and kist names place and how real or fake it is etc.. So for this one I will need the help of everybody to email me and give list if stuff so I can research in my books and list the dates etc. Usually my memory is much better but suince the kid came in the picture I now fully understand how much it takes 200% of your energy so I basically get only about 3 hours for my Shakuhachi and book studies each day.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#21 2008-05-26 21:55:49

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

Lance wrote:

If that's not enough to contemplate, maybe a little review on "Zen" in general, in that 'Zen Buddism' is apparently not really Buddism, and not religious practice, but simply discovering the essence of all things though your own methods leading to enlightenment, not through any dogma or specific ritual.

I wil open this one in the morning as a separate thread since this would be a great discussion for all of us to have.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#22 2008-05-26 21:57:50

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3207
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

Stop trying to change the subject from your nude dancing. I heard you got fired from the go go bar because they wanted a 2.9 but you could only provide a 1.4. wink


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#23 2008-05-26 21:57:58

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

Zakarius wrote:

Gishin wrote:

This will be my first time to perform on stage apart from when I used to be a male stripper wink

And I thought the chanting from the Monshogodo CD was coming from a purely religious tradition... now I realize that the chanting of the sutras may in fact have been the Kama Sutra big_smile

Zak -- jinashi size queen

We actualy both joked about that stuff this weekend and had good laughs about it. Even were thinking of some stage names wink


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#24 2008-05-26 22:00:27

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Please put in your requests

Tairaku wrote:

Stop trying to change the subject from your nude dancing. I heard you got fired from the go go bar because they wanted a 2.9 but you could only provide a 1.4. wink

Hahaha  good one I guess I fully opened my backdoor on this one wink

I feel good laughing and drinking times coming up in Australia.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#25 2008-05-27 09:35:08

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Re: Please put in your requests

The exchange between Lance and Edosan above was quite short but yet very meaningful.

On one extreme shakuhachi is a tool for spiritual practitioners for whom their sound and performance quality is of little value next to their personal spiritual development when blowing.  And on the other extreme are the musicians who may greatly enjoy blowing, but first and foremost want to sound great, because, after all, they are performers.

Now between these two extremes (which we can call blowing versus playing, introverted versus extroverted, meditational versus sensual, or spiritualist versus performer) there are all sorts of midpoints and combinations of these two perspective, which means, of course, there are some people who see themselves as both spiritualists and performers.

And if you are not sure where you stand you might want to ask yourself:  Would you still play shakuhachi if you sounded just plain awful nearly every time you picked it up?  Would you still play shakuhachi if no one ever ever wanted to hear you play?

In my experience there is a real tension between these two motivations behind playing or blowing shakuhachi. 

If you are obsessed with getting your pitch perfect you need to get a pitch meter and to practice your pitch over and over and you need to get, again, obsessed with achieving a particular goal.  This passion and drive for achieving a particular goal, is, in my opinion, very un-spiritual and very un-meditative.  It’s simply a sort of highly refined craving and ambition.   And is that not the complete opposite of what spiritual development is supposed to encourage?  Would it not make the Buddha gently shake his head with sad pity watching all of these spiritual minded shakuhachi players begin to slowly burn with the desire of becoming great performers?   

But here is the paradox in all of the above:  All that non-spiritual craving and ambition can ultimately produce a most sublime spiritual experience for… the audience!

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