Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Hello,

Antiques, even really nice ones, usually play with some difficulties. Whether it be antique Jinashi or fully pasted Jiari. Most of the old shakuhachi on eBay do not seem very worth it unless Perry has worked on them and is selling them ("Tensei" flutes).

My teacher has some used Jiari at nyogetsu.com/flutes (look under 1.8's) you can audition them at no risk.

http://www.japanshakuhachi.com/ has great new and used flutes I've heard and you can audition them. I think most are out of your price range?

Monty Levenson of shakuhachi.com makes "cast-bore" flutes and his student models for $400-something are way better than the plastic Yuu. You can't get a root end for that cheap though I don't think.

If you ever want to learn the music these are made for you can study with my teacher via mp3, cassette in the mail or new internet chat video. If you do you'll need a 1.8 "D". Or if you can study with someone in person that is best.

Good luck,
Jon~

Last edited by Jon Shingetsu (2008-05-31 16:24:30)

Hey, you're most welcome. In my opinion a Jiari would be want you would want. I'd save up and invest in a nice Jiari 1.8.

Hope you eventually get to also take lessons especially if you invest in a nice one.

All the best,
Jon~

Thanks Cikuzen, that's what I thought.  I got a particularly good Earth model, I guess I was just looking for what looks like the best, but at an affordable price (something that is in reality, impossible - no such thing as a free lunch springs to mind).  I reckon you probably get what you pay for, and in my case I got a little bit more; I love my flute, so I'll just play it and improve my skill until I can feel myself being limited by the instrument, and I suppose without testing out loads of flutes, the only way to do that would be through a teacher.  It's different to guitar as there just aren't shops about with loads to try before you buy.  Gonna go hunt for more instructional materials and some virtuoso players to try to copy!

Tairaku, thanks for your input, I appreciate it.  I'm taking everything onboard.  Even though I haven't been playing the shakuhachi long, I believe I've got a fairly firm grounding due to my practice with the Xiao and Ocarina.  A lot of the breath control techniques are similar, if not identical, and I've been playing ocarinas for about 8 years...  My violin music theory helped me a lot with the guitar, so I've got a bunch of theory down, and I'm a science teacher, so I know a fair bit about harmonics and the way flutes work etc, too (physics), and I actually make my own ocarinas; the stuff that I'm having to learn at the moment, I hope I can do for myself based on my experience (it worked for me with guitar). 

I'm currently teaching myself Honkyoko from various sources along with mp3s from the net which I use to figure out what technique sounds like whatever.  It may be unconvential, but I seem to be replicating the sounds I hear pretty accurately.  I feel a real connection with my flute, and it's very meditative for me; I feel truly at peace as I play, and freer to express myself than on instruments where I filled my mind with theoretical clutter.  I'd love a teacher to tell me where I go wrong so I could improve, but I think I can hear what's good and what's not, so it's enough for me; teachers often will guide you very well to sound like how you should sound according to their particular conventions.  This is why I say I'll try to copy the player I choose; it saves me money, and I'll be more motivated to succeed if I'm playing when and how I want.  All I want is a beautiful melody, and I am not bothered about trying to classify it as a certain style.  I hope this is not seen as ignorant, arrogant or narrow.

I know that this may limit me as a shakuhachiist, but if I hear a sound, and like that sound, I can learn how to do it (I know teachers could help me here), so I shouldn't be limited in my expression as an artist.  The reason I wanted advice on which flute to buy is to see which will make the most beautiful sound and is the least limiting; I can't afford to get a custom jiari built for me just to find I don't like the feel of the sounds.  I think what I will do is continue on my path, save up a bit, and go for a Perry Yung flute (I know the feel that fits him seems to fit me well too) and hope I can swap it if it's not exactly perfect for me.  I wanted free advice as I know that the necessary experimentation can be costly.

Thanks everyone for their feedback, it's been great.  Good forum!  I'd like to hear if any pros agree with my way of learning; I know it works with guitar, but are there any pros here that have learned in the way I like to learn (just feel my way and play from my heart), or is everyone here instructor trained?  I'd love to hear views on my methods.

Thanks again.

I do agree with you fully, with every point you have made.  Teachers seem sparse here in the UK (I bet they are in Tas, too, but you're nearer Japan.  lol)  I have already noticed loads of ways to get the same sounds (all the ways do sound tonally different, even though the note is the same); it's the same with all the instruments I play (Violin I'd say least - it's easily the most restrictive), though perhaps most with the shakuhachi.  That's actually the whole reason I like it, different sounds for the same note, so I reckon it sounds as though I'm on thee right track...  I don't mean I don't need lessons to be technically awesome, but I can be pretty expressive without someone telling me my wrist is at a funny angle (a lot of that in guitar lol).  I have also been enamoured with the Japanese culture for a long time (been studying the martial arts since the age of 4!), so I "get" a lot of the ideas of empty space/mind, and using the entire body/instrument for expression, whether that may be blown notes, or taps with the finger, or flicking into and out of notes, tons of ways to do vibrato etc.  I would actually like the odd lesson, unfortunately I just don't feel it would be practical for me at this time in my life to get an instructor that I'd have to travel to, so sadly I will not be able to have a relationship with a sensei; my schedule is packed enough with trying to get back to teaching after my collapsed lung, sorting out my house my girlfriend and I just moved into, and having loads of BBQs in the summer evenings (my fave shakuhachi time, out in my garden in the sun with the birds by my pond, and wind in the trees).  The video-lessons thing does appeal to me a lot, and I will no doubt try it at some point.

You have encouraged me to get lessons, so I thank you - I probably would never have even bothered before speaking with you tonight, so you have made a difference.  I hope from spending time here and asking questions to you guys, I can gleen all the tech info I can.  (How do I reach the third octave Ha notes without harmonic undertones?) lol

Thanks again, again! lol

Ninjabathy,
    Congratulations! I think you'll find the teacher very helpful. There are certains tehcnics and fingerings you would never be able to figure out on your own.  Good luck.

Hi Ninjabathy
You asked about buying from ebay. One thing about older shakuhachi is that they are usually what we would call out of tune. Perhaps only since the last 30 years, have makers (some, not all) been strict about pitch. Mostly the 3rd hole is the most out of tune, since its position was chosen for aesthetic reasons. Nowadays (most) makers choose the hole positions according to pitch. Other holes can be out of tune too. So if pitch is important for you, bare that in mind.

Also there are many kinds of "good" shakuhachi. First different people have different tastes. But then also different shakuhachi are more or less suitable for different genres of music. This usually depends on what music the shakuhachi has been made for. Different genres or schools use different techniques. Often a shakuhachi made for school A, which doesn't use school B's techniques, can't properly play school B's music.

So as someone has already said, it may be best to wait. When you are more familiar with the music you will be playing, you will better know about buying a suitable shakuhachi. And as good ones are expensive (generally around £1000~£2500) it's good to get the one which will be right for you. Ideally, if you share similar tastes with your teacher, it is good if he/she can test the repertoire you will play, on the shakuhachi before you buy it.

Good luck
Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

Just managed to do some of the third octave with no harmonic undertones - I just had to press my bottom lip slightly harder against the flute and widen my lips slightly, and actually not uncover the thumb hole at all.  I kind of spit the note out with a ta feeling... If I try to "roll" smoothly into it from another note, I still get the harmonics.  Is this normal?  Does it sound like I'm doing it right (lol, i'm posting in the wrong forum and trying to get free lessons now... hehehe)   I'm actually really looking forward to my online lesson - it's funny, the more I play the instrument (I'm doing about 10 hours a day at the mo cos I'm off work), the more I start to notice inconsistencies in my tone -  that's what I'm working on at the moment - trying to get an identical sound (it's always in tune, just different "feel" to the vibrations of the bamboo) by messing around with embouchre subtleties and tiny little twists of my head or the shakuhachi (I noticed the utaguchi is ever so slightly skewed, to rolling it gently can produce very different tones!).  It's pretty cool, I love exploring all this!
I reckon I'm starting to know what to look for as well... when I shade notes, they come out quieter; they're in pitch, but they don't have the same kind of honky tone - they're smoother and softer... is this OK, or am I fingering it wrong, or is it more likely the flute?
Anyway, this really is a wonderfully expressive tool; the more I play it, the more I fall in love with it's intricacies from such minor adjustments.  I think I will really enjoy trying to make such fine control so that I can play consistently.  Tis cool!  Maybe it's the ease of consistency that I would gain from a more expensive instrument.

I'd just like to say thanks again to everyone here, you really are an accommodating community, and I'm glad to make my little self a part of it!  Cheers guys,

James

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for that, it's very helpful.  I am actually interested in learning some of the traditional repertoire, just because it will enhance the "feel" of my music; I'll pick up runs of notes with a traditional Japanese feel which will help my improvisation so I can give my music that same feel, If i want it.  I've also been looking through notation charts at different ways to achieve notes in various scales, and I was doing a little wrong.  I've also already managed to iron out the spitting!  That was a morning thing... by evening yesterday I could roll around in both scales (not technical terms! lol), but I have to adjust my embouchure a bit on the "hi" note in the kan register.  Once I have that note perfect, I seem to be able to hit all the notes pretty sweetly, and just move my jaw forward/head back/blow softer for the otsu register.

I've just noticed that to talk to you guys and express myself on this forum, I am learning all the traditional terms anyway, lol, so it seems that some of my early posts were pointless!  lol  My first lesson also is all booked up for thursday, too, so I'm on my way!

That little discovery actually helped me realise I don't think I need a more expensive flute at all; mine's absolutely perfect for me!  I had a listen to mp3s of Perry's more expensive flutes, and I decided that they (Perry, if you read this, sorry) sound slightly more manufactured and perfect.  I think that maybe looking for a modern "perfect" flute, which obviously gives excellent pitch control and very pure notes actually looses the raw bamboo feeling of some of the notes.  lol, they sound too good, if you know what I mean?  I actually like mine better, I think!  I reckon, in a way, I already have my perfect flute.  I'll probably change my mind a whole lot as I get better, though! hehe.  Question answered then - do I need a more expensive flute?  Not yet, I'm too much of a no0b!  lol.  Thanks everyone, I'm glad I registered here, ther're a bunch of interesting opinions here!  Ciao!

Justin wrote:

...learning the traditional music may actually be the best way to encounter the potential of this instrument.

Couldn't agree more.