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#1 2008-06-24 12:25:53

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
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what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

hi guys,
anybody knows what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"(shakuhachi & harp)?

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#2 2008-06-24 17:27:00

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Ask Riley but it's probably his Tom Deaver 1.8. But ask him after the festival he is pretty busy right about now!


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#3 2008-06-24 19:35:22

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

It's his Deaver 1.8.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#4 2008-06-24 21:31:37

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
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Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

edosan wrote:

It's his Deaver 1.8.

Has Riley ever given you the back story on that flute and why it is "his Deaver 1.8"*?

*(Perhaps we should write this as "His Deaver 1.8"?)


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#5 2008-06-24 21:36:01

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

sounds awesome in the recording..

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#6 2008-06-25 00:39:29

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Chris Moran wrote:

edosan wrote:

It's his Deaver 1.8.

Has Riley ever given you the back story on that flute and why it is "his Deaver 1.8"*?

*(Perhaps we should write this as "His Deaver 1.8"?)

Not much of a story. Tom made it for him (5-6 years ago, I think--could be off some--time flying, and all that), and it's his main concert 1.8. Good flute, but nothing magical about it. It's Riley that's the magic.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#7 2008-06-25 13:07:36

Moran from Planet X
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From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
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Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

edosan wrote:

It's Riley that's the magic.

The Hawaiian video is so nice because he really gives a lesson on it. Nice that it was shot so that he was at an angle where you can really study his movements.


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#8 2008-06-25 14:01:02

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

edosan wrote:

Chris Moran wrote:

edosan wrote:

It's his Deaver 1.8.

Has Riley ever given you the back story on that flute and why it is "his Deaver 1.8"*?

*(Perhaps we should write this as "His Deaver 1.8"?)

Not much of a story. Tom made it for him (5-6 years ago, I think--could be off some--time flying, and all that), and it's his main concert 1.8. Good flute, but nothing magical about it. It's Riley that's the magic.

It's noteworthy that with all the praise heaped on vintage instruments many of the top players prefer sparkling brand new modern shakuhachi.

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#9 2008-06-25 14:38:04

Moran from Planet X
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From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
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Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

edosan wrote:

Not much of a story.

With a nod to Rod Stewart (wtf!), I always say "Every Shakuhachi Tells a Story" -- especially ones made by master living makers for master living players.


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#10 2008-06-25 14:44:05

Moran from Planet X
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From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
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Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Seth wrote:

It's noteworthy that with all the praise heaped on vintage instruments many of the top players prefer sparkling brand new modern shakuhachi.

And not inexpensive ones either.


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#11 2008-06-25 22:55:52

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Seth wrote:

It's noteworthy that with all the praise heaped on vintage instruments many of the top players prefer sparkling brand new modern shakuhachi.

That's a good point. I generally prefer the tone colour of fine vintage shakuhachi. The thing is, they are nearly always out of tune (often quite seriously so). Professional players can't afford to be performing with odd notes out of tune here and there.

There's a foreign player who is quite into old shakuhachi. He played one of his vintage shakuhachi in a lesson with Yokoyama. Since he played out of tune, Yokoyama told him. "Chi is sharp!" (or was it chi meri? anyway..)
He wanted to tell Yokoyama "that's not my fault, it's because this shakuhachi is out of tune" (sharp chi is the most common fault). But he kept quite, realising that was a lame excuse.

The thing is, the pitch of the notes is the responsibility of the performer. That being the case, most performers end up choosing a shakuhachi which is in tune.

This in turn gives an influence to shakuhachi makers. As modern professionals require accurate pitch, and also loudness to fill the concert halls, many modern makers focus primarily on pitch and loudness. This often goes to produce a less interesting tone colour, whether because they are concentrating primarily on the above mentioned aspects (therefore tone colour becomes a lesser consideration), or, perhaps even the tone colour necessarily becomes more plain due to this shift in emphasis (for comparison think of viola da gamba (complex tone colour, lower volume) compared to cello). This seems to be the complaint of the "vintage" shakuhachi school.

Can the two schools be brought together, one wonders?

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

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#12 2008-06-25 23:55:43

rpowers
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 285

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Seth wrote:

It's noteworthy that with all the praise heaped on vintage instruments many of the top players prefer sparkling brand new modern shakuhachi.

"Vintage instruments" are a generic class of instruments that collectors fantasize over; a performer plays a specific, real flute. Many of us also fantasize about how much better our playing would be if we had our ideal instrument. Riley doesn't live in Fantasy Land with the rest of us; when you appreciate his performance, you are not listening to the hanko on the back of his flute.

Keep in mind, too, that Riley and Tom know each other well. Tom can make a flute tailored to suit Riley's approach to playing (just like John Neptune can make a flute designed to suit John Neptune's style of playing).


"Shut up 'n' play . . . " -- Frank Zappa
"Gonna blow some . . ." -- Junior Walker
"It's not the flute." -- Riley Lee

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#13 2008-06-26 02:51:04

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

People use the flutes that play the music they want to play well. Or sometimes they find the flutes they like and then play the music that flute is good for.

I have to object to a few ideas thrown up here. First that there is an objective idea of pitch or being "in tune". There isn't. The idea that a performer who does not conform to certain pitch relationships is a bad musician is silly. If that were the case the world would have no use for the likes of Bob Dylan, John Lee Hooker, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Howlin' Wolf, Syd Barrett, etc. The idea that a professional musician would not use an instrument that is not tuned to modern standards in public is also ridiculous. Then lets wipe all guitar and piano players off the face of the earth because guitars and pianos are ALWAYS out of tune when they play more than one note. It is physically impossible for them to be in tune. Do you know what classical musicians call saxophones? "Out of tuneaphones" Let's burn Adolf Sax in effigy.

Sure a good musician tries to play in tune to the best of his ability but anyone who uses that as their main criterion of music making or who chooses instruments solely on that basis has obsessive compulsive disorder.

Is there anyone here who really thinks that conforming to the even tempered Western scale is the pinnacle of musical expression? On an instrument that is not Western? That doesn't even try to make sense.

Some of my favorite shakuhachi playing is supposedly "out of tune" and some of the dullest is predictably "in tune" to the point that when you hear it you wonder if it's a synthesizer. Yamaguchi Goro frequently played VERY sharp on certain notes but he was still an exquisite interpreter of Kinko music.

Truth is there are numerous valid ways of looking at pitch and some of them are so unique they apply to only one person. But if that one person can communicate that's more powerful than an army of people conforming to an arbitrary standard of pitch. Because all tuning systems are manmade. Otherwise we should all stick to the harmonic series.

In the end we must all decide which flutes to use for the music we play. My personal solution is that I use certain flutes for jazz (which must be in Western pitches and have nice tone) and other ones for honkyoku (which I choose for tone alone). For gaikyoku I use the flutes which play that music easily and have nice tones. If you only want to have one flute then get one that's tuned to western pitches but learn how to play the Japanese pitches or you'll sound like Kenny G.

Finally:

rpowers wrote:

"Vintage instruments" are a generic class of instruments that collectors fantasize over; a performer plays a specific, real flute.

I don't know if you meant to imply that vintage instruments are only coveted by collectors and because of their mystique or the name value. I suppose that might be true in some cases. But I know plenty of performers who use vintage flutes only because that particular flute pleases them more than any other. A lot of vintage flutes are incredible instruments by any and all standards. For one thing many vintage flutes have more work put into them because people had more time for that stuff in the past.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#14 2008-06-26 08:30:24

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Well said Tairaku,

Applying an inflexible and absolute measure leads to musical fascism, and quite possibly, machine like performance, void of the magical spectrum of human (and instrumental) eccentricities/flaws that lead to real creative expression.   Then again, I'm musically challenged, and early on the shakuhachi path. 

Earlier in the thread I got the impression that there was some kind of either/or position regarding volume and the ever elusive phrase "tone colour".  Well, being that I have already made the confession of my rank beginner status (though Gishin is teaching me well), I will venture to offer an opinion. 

Now, not to stroke the ego's of Brian and Ken, I must say that my Taimu seems to have a powerful, booming voice, with a thick and colourful tone that you can really feel in your body.   Mine is a particularly massive 2.8 they called "the monster", and it has taken me almost six months just to adapt to it in a basic way, but let me tell you, that thing can whisper, or really, truly boom.  When I push it (to the edge of my limited ability to do so), the girlfriend usually comes runnig in and tells me to stop, as the volume level (and thickness) is too much for her... hopefully it is not my playing that is too much.  I like to push the foghorn, which seems to really freak her out for some reason.  Oh well. 

What really makes it pleasurable to play is the enveloping, and resounding tone, which is, I believe, capable of as much expressive range as the indivdual is capable of.   As my grandfather used to say, "if you feel it, you can say it."  I think that applies very much to musical instruments.   I guess what I'm saying is that you can have your cake and eat it too. 

just my 2 cents.

Last edited by Lorka (2008-06-26 08:36:06)


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#15 2008-06-26 08:42:24

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Thanks Lorca, most of the kudos for Taimu go to Ken. He is the the guy who makes them and sweats over them. I just go there, drink Bombay Sapphire and make a few comments.

There are different kinds of volume associated with shakuhachi. Taimu and some other shakuhachi may seem to speak with a soft voice initially but when you push them the right way it's penetrating. In fact sometimes they are louder from a distance than other flutes which are loud in close proximity.

All of the modern makers who are making great and interesting flutes today have one thing in common. In SOME way they are strongly influenced by the best makers of the distant past. Maybe the shakuhachi are not replicas. But they are part of a continuum. The guys who think they are reinventing the wheel invariably come up with flutes that are lacking in essentials. That's why the modern/vintage debate is pedantic. The great makers of today are creating the vintage flutes of tomorrow.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#16 2008-06-26 09:55:22

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Hi Brian

Tairaku wrote:

People use the flutes that play the music they want to play well. Or sometimes they find the flutes they like and then play the music that flute is good for.

Sounds good. I often find that when I pick up a shakuhachi, the music which comes out, the style of my playing, depends on the innate character of the instrument. I think it's nice to let the shakuhachi itself guide our playing, so that it can express itself, it's character and potential.

Tairaku wrote:

I have to object to a few ideas thrown up here. First that there is an objective idea of pitch or being "in tune".

Sounds like you may be referring to my comments.

Tairaku wrote:

There isn't. The idea that a performer who does not conform to certain pitch relationships is a bad musician is silly. If that were the case the world would have no use for the likes of Bob Dylan, John Lee Hooker, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, Howlin' Wolf, Syd Barrett, etc.

Perhaps we do not really disagree? Could it be that all those people were actually "conforming to certain pitch relations"? Perhaps their pitch relatoins were different from other "standards", but perhaps they were actually choosing what pitches they used. I don't mean mathematically. I mean, for exampole subtely bending a pitch to give a certain mood, certain flaour and so on. That often involves a high mastery of pitch, in terms of hearing, expressing, and instrumental control.
However, with shakuhachi, it is common that some people simply cannot control their pitch. Some of them don't aim to control their pitch much. This seems especially true in schools which consider the honkyoku as not being music.

The question which might be more relevant is, is the player able to procude the pitches the player intends to express? And the questoin which follows from that is, if one is unable to express the pitches one intends to, is it due to the instrument (as in the case of the Yokoyama student), or is it due to the player? Or both? (It is much easier if one plays a shakuhachi which is made for playing the pitches one intends to express).


Tairaku wrote:

Is there anyone here who really thinks that conforming to the even tempered Western scale is the pinnacle of musical expression? On an instrument that is not Western? That doesn't even try to make sense.

I would encourage a different question. The shakuhachi has 5 holes. Their pitch mainly determines the kari notes. What pitch do you want to play the kari notes at? And, does you shakuhachi naturally play them at that pitch?
So then we could examine Japanese ensemble music. So we would ask, what pitches do the koto and shamisen players use, and voice?
As far as I can make out, the pitches they use for our kari notes are, the same as the Western tuning. The meri notes, however, are flatter. So you have an overall system which differs from the Western tuning, but actually that does not effect the holes of the shakuhachi.

As for shakuhachi playing, due to the difficulty of the meri technique, sankyoku is often played with meri notes sharper then the Western tuning. I believe this is unintentional, since it does not conform to the koto and shamisen parts which they are following, but doies conform to the technical difficulty of their instrument.

As for chi being sharp, also this seems to not conform to the koto and shamisen parts which they were following, but does conform to aesthetic beauty of hole placement, and ease of fingering (less distance). However since sankyoku started to be so popular, that hole started to move.




Tairaku wrote:

The idea that a professional musician would not use an instrument that is not tuned to modern standards in public is also ridiculous. Then lets wipe all guitar and piano players off the face of the earth because guitars and pianos are ALWAYS out of tune when they play more than one note.

What do you mean Brian? Are you saying guitars and pianos are not tuned successfully to 12 tone equal temperament? (Or are you refering to the inherant problems of that temperament?)
Anyway, when talking about an instrument being in or out of tune, I think we are thinking in terms of what is tolerable, or not, right? If one note on a piano were 30 cents sharp (common for chi, for example, or more!) I think all the other Western musicians would notice, right? They may be out of tune to some degree, but far less than that. And, I think what the difference we are talking about here with modern and old shakuhachi is that for the old ones, for example maybe 20 or 30 cents off here and there was okay, when nowadays maybe 5 or 10 ccents here and there is considered to be the limit (perhaps). That is, maybe the players'/audience's tolerance has changed.




Tairaku wrote:

Sure a good musician tries to play in tune to the best of his ability but anyone who uses that as their main criterion of music making or who chooses instruments solely on that basis has obsessive compulsive disorder.

I think you're right. But is has become quite an important criterion. And as I mentioned, that can actually lead away from interesting tone if obsessed about too much.
I have talked with pipe organ makers, oud makers, violin makers and heard also through them about other instruments, and it seems there has been a world wide trend, lasting more than 100 years, for instrument makers to become less wholistic. I find it fascinating. A main factor in the trend is to go for increasing loudness. And the common outcome is a decrease in tone clour quality, or, in "musicallity" as these makers have expressed. Brian, I think you will know what I'm talking about.

As a maker myself, I find this a wonderful challenge. I cannot ignore the demand of modern customers, who require accurate pitch for the music of their repertoires, and also a certain level of projection. I myself have these requirements too as a shakuhachi performer. But, most imporetant for me has to be the tone colour.
I once made a 2 shaku 4 sun which was very loud, nice and stable sound, excellant tuning, and a tone colour which was, sorry to say, boring! I would always prefer to pick up another more difficult shakuhachi but which had a tone colour which my heart could relate to. This is something I cannot ignore. In fact, it becomes my main motivating factor.

And it's an ongoing dance, or exploratoin as a maker, and challenge as an artist - to strive for both ease of playing and pleasing tone colour. Sometimes it's like asking fire and water to be friends. But it is both a challenging and rewarding journey, pushing on for an ever evolving collaboration of these factors.



Tairaku wrote:

For gaikyoku I use the flutes which play that music easily and have nice tones. If you only want to have one flute then get one that's tuned to western pitches but learn how to play the Japanese pitches or you'll sound like Kenny G.

Well said. Sankyoku sounds really weird (and honkyoku) when played in 12 tone equal temperament!

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

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#17 2008-06-26 10:02:28

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Tairaku wrote:

All of the modern makers who are making great and interesting flutes today have one thing in common. In SOME way they are strongly influenced by the best makers of the distant past. Maybe the shakuhachi are not replicas. But they are part of a continuum. The guys who think they are reinventing the wheel invariably come up with flutes that are lacking in essentials. That's why the modern/vintage debate is pedantic. The great makers of today are creating the vintage flutes of tomorrow.

This makes a lot of sense.  But for some reason it seems to run very counter to what I hear all the time about vintage flutes.     

Most of the time when people discuss older flutes from earlier 'periods' it is with a sense of awe that somehow those flutes will never be replicated again due to one or all of the following:

1) Makers and players are now two distinct groups whereas alas once they were one and the same

2) Modern construction materials are easier to work with but produce crap instruments in the longterm

3) Modern makers are all just trying to make a quick buck so they mass produce instruments and don't invest the loving care as the old makers did...

4) Modern purchasers of shakuhachi are degenerate.  All we want is something that looks pretty and that honks real loud - so makers no longer have incentive to actually make instruments that sound beautiful. 

All this sounds pretty alarming and makes me want to guard my vintage shakuhachi with my life...but then you hear that Riley Lee's flute is 10 years old.  (And it was made by a white guy! Gasp!)  Kurahashi plays a new flute from Gyoksui. (Sp?)  Kifu Mitsuhashi plays a modern flute from Bonchiku (sp?).   

But I do know some players for whom I have a world of respect, admiration and awe who swear by the school of thought that vintage flutes are just special and nothing modern is going to replace them.

For me personally the jury is still out...

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#18 2008-06-26 15:48:10

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
Website

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Producing really good flutes takes a lot of time, blood, sweat and tears as Mujitsu occasionally reminds us. Lots.

Tom Deaver makes the statement on his web site that he prices his flutes as they did in old Japan: about two months worth of 'average' craftsmen wages for an excellent quality instrument. 

Before or after taxes? I muse. I'd almost make it at 2 months if it were gross. Three months at net. That's one quarter of my annual wage for a shakuhachi. And if I wanted Tom to really get to know my style and quirks? I think that might be a couple of more months of wages IF I could even get on his dance card.

I think the flutes you get off the rack from Gyoksui or Bonchiku may be very good shakuhachi, but to get either of these fine makers to work with you personally over the span of months and years may cost you three, four or five times the price of a ready-made. And should.

But as amateur players do we really need that kind of obsessive attention?


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#19 2008-06-26 17:37:15

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Justin wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

The idea that a professional musician would not use an instrument that is not tuned to modern standards in public is also ridiculous. Then lets wipe all guitar and piano players off the face of the earth because guitars and pianos are ALWAYS out of tune when they play more than one note.

What do you mean Brian? Are you saying guitars and pianos are not tuned successfully to 12 tone equal temperament? (Or are you refering to the inherant problems of that temperament?)


/

Both things. Even tempered music is inherently out of tune and the mechanics of those particular instruments also create beating. I stopped playing guitar partially because it drove me crazy because the only time it was in tune was if I bent notes or played slide! I still enjoy playing bass.

Justin the rest of our discussion is circular. Kudos to you for striving to make flutes which have great tone and play in tune. We need as many of them as possible.

But I don't think it's cool to hold another players lesson up to scrutiny in a derisive manner. We are all very vulnerable during lessons.

Seth wrote:

Most of the time when people discuss older flutes from earlier 'periods' it is with a sense of awe that somehow those flutes will never be replicated again due to one or all of the following:

1) Makers and players are now two distinct groups whereas alas once they were one and the same

2) Modern construction materials are easier to work with but produce crap instruments in the longterm

3) Modern makers are all just trying to make a quick buck so they mass produce instruments and don't invest the loving care as the old makers did...

4) Modern purchasers of shakuhachi are degenerate.  All we want is something that looks pretty and that honks real loud - so makers no longer have incentive to actually make instruments that sound beautiful. 

All this sounds pretty alarming and makes me want to guard my vintage shakuhachi with my life...but then you hear that Riley Lee's flute is 10 years old.  (And it was made by a white guy! Gasp!)  Kurahashi plays a new flute from Gyoksui. (Sp?)  Kifu Mitsuhashi plays a modern flute from Bonchiku (sp?).   

But I do know some players for whom I have a world of respect, admiration and awe who swear by the school of thought that vintage flutes are just special and nothing modern is going to replace them.

For me personally the jury is still out...

OK Seth to this list add:

5. the bamboo is different now.

6. Vintage flutes have been played for thousands of hours more than brand new ones and that mellows the tone. (If you like mellow tone).

I don't think the jury is out. It's in and the verdict is that there are great modern and vintage flutes. I'm a proponent of both. It's just a matter of taste and music which ones you actually want to play.

That said it's my generalization that for some reason vintage flutes excel in shorter lengths and modern flutes excel in longer ones. There are exceptions in both directions but that's the general trend. But where vintage makers can't strive to make better long flutes (because they are dead lol) our current makers can still work on their 1.8's and sometimes with great results. So we should support them. I recently wrote about a brand spanking new Suikyo 1.8 I got which I love.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#20 2008-06-26 18:44:18

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

The poor, dead horse.

He has been beaten so long, and so hard, and with such wanton precision.

He has become a mere smudge of oil on the road.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#21 2008-06-26 18:58:50

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

edosan wrote:

The poor, dead horse.

He has been beaten so long, and so hard, and with such wanton precision.

He has become a mere smudge of oil on the road.

It's a forum. Forums exist to beat horses to death. lol if you think this is bad look at some of the political forums.

Maybe I'll make a new category "Nothing" where we don't talk about stuff. I'll make you, Horst and Samuel Beckett co-moderators.  wink


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#22 2008-06-26 19:16:44

rpowers
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 285

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Tairaku wrote:

Maybe I'll make a new category "Nothing" where we don't talk about stuff. I'll make you, Horst and Samuel Beckett co-moderators.  wink

. . .

Last edited by rpowers (2008-06-26 19:18:06)


"Shut up 'n' play . . . " -- Frank Zappa
"Gonna blow some . . ." -- Junior Walker
"It's not the flute." -- Riley Lee

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#23 2008-06-26 20:38:51

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

Tairaku wrote:

edosan wrote:

The poor, dead horse.

He has been beaten so long, and so hard, and with such wanton precision.

He has become a mere smudge of oil on the road.

It's a forum. Forums exist to beat horses to death. lol if you think this is bad look at some of the political forums.

Maybe I'll make a new category "Nothing" where we don't talk about stuff. I'll make you, Horst and Samuel Beckett co-moderators.  wink

yes, yes, yes...it's all been said before.  But we're enjoying ourselves!  Is that so terrible!?!

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#24 2008-06-26 20:46:00

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

I enjoy talking about flutes all the time..specifically about the flutes I can't afford. shakuhachi Chanel:-)

Last edited by geni (2008-06-26 20:46:33)

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#25 2008-06-26 21:37:33

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
Website

Re: what kind of shakuhachi (maker) is Riley playing in "Floating Wolrd"?

edosan wrote:

The poor, dead horse.

He has been beaten so long, and so hard, and with such wanton precision.

He has become a mere smudge of oil on the road.

Which dead shakuhachi horse are you referring to?

Vintage v. New? ... Jinashi v. Jiari (Jinuri, Jimori, take your pick)?

Kinko v. Tozan?

Myoan v. Taizan v. Honest & True Exclusively Pure Myoan?


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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