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#1 2008-06-29 04:16:06

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
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Interesting Statement about Zen

I found this interesting website.

http://int.kateigaho.com/list_01.html

On their front page they state their philosophy which is:

"Zen teaches us to be creative, not to be bound by traditional ways but rather to inherit their spirit. The goal is to learn basic Zen teachings, then express or create something new. We present the face of Zen today in the art of select individuals leading the fields of tea ceremony, bonsai, ikebana, ceramics, and cuisine. In their creativity they are shouldering the future of Japanese culture."

It occurs to me that this is not what we are encouraged to do with shakuhachi. We are taught to imitate the teacher as closely as possible. Some people reach the age of 60 and are still not trying to do anything new with what they've learned. Some ryu take this to extremes where students argue about what the teacher did (for example atari which hole) when he probably did it more than one way.

Seems however that there is a point you reach where you can branch off. I'd be interested to hear from Gishin or any other trained Zen people where it's considered that you reach this point.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#2 2008-06-29 16:29:25

Nyogetsu
Kyu Dan Dai Shihan
From: NYC
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 259
Website

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

My teacher Kurahashi YODO (who was the only lay practitioner on the Board of MYOAN-ji Temple in Kyoto, would say to me that you should copy your teacher as close as possible and in 40 years you will start to EVOLVE your own interpretation.

Japanese Sensei have always realized that no 2 KOKORO are the same, but if you intentionally try to make something your own from the beginning, what you get is a REVOLUTION (standing something on its head) of the art, rather then an EVOLUTION (a more natural, gradual change).

As someone who is nearing that 40 year mark as a Shakuhachi player, I can tell you (my grandchild: MAGO-DESHI) that there are many areas where I am still so happy to be just "copying" . You see, I can hear his words to my core as I teach. They were that important to me. And yes,  there are just starting to be small areas where I am evolving as a Teacher/Performer in a slightly different way. True to my Sensei and also true to my soul.


The magic's in the music and the music's in me...
"Do you believe in Magic"- The Lovin' Spoonful

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#3 2008-06-30 09:23:12

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
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Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Zen teaches us to be creative, not to be bound by traditional ways but rather to inherit their spirit.

Zen teaches us to end suffering both for ourselves and others.  To strive for our own expression or to strive to imitate tradition really misses the point, in my humble opinion, and has little to do with Zen.  Who is expressing themselves?  Who is imitating?

"The way is not difficult
for those who do not pick and choose."

I think this musical practice has a great deal to teach me.  If I play Choshi (just a beginner) aren't I expressing myself?  Who is playing?  Who is breathing?  If I sit on the couch and "doodle" with the flute, aren't I participating in a long tradition of players who have done the same?  Who taught me these notes that I play around with?  I don't know, very philosophical and likely unsatisfying.

I think the real pitfall exists in creating some boundary between meditation and art, between creation, tradition and expression.  In my mind it is best to play and not bother myself with these partitions, but this is mostly a physical and meditative practice to me.  Artists and performers may have a different perspective.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#4 2008-06-30 11:04:02

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
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Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Tairaku wrote:

We are taught to imitate the teacher as closely as possible. Some people reach the age of 60 and are still not trying to do anything new with what they've learned. Some ryu take this to extremes where students argue about what the teacher did (for example atari which hole) when he probably did it more than one way.

Perhaps the sins of the father, or grandfather, do not have to fall upon the son... or grandson?

How would have Jin Nyodo or Yokoyama Katsuya developed had they felt strictly bound to only one teacher's method or one school's restrictions?


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#5 2008-06-30 11:10:36

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
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Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

we learn the rules to break them:-)

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#6 2008-06-30 13:46:03

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Tairaku wrote:

It occurs to me that this is not what we are encouraged to do with shakuhachi. We are taught to imitate the teacher as closely as possible. Some people reach the age of 60 and are still not trying to do anything new with what they've learned. Some ryu take this to extremes where students argue about what the teacher did (for example atari which hole) when he probably did it more than one way.

Seems however that there is a point you reach where you can branch off.

Hi Brian
This might sound cryptic, but maybe that point is when self-expression actually dies, and that which manifests is Self-expression, or you could call it "non-self"-expression (enlightened activity).

I think the repetitiveness of the Japanese arts and their connection to Zen are actually quite tied up in this direction beyond the self. Sometimes it is the most boring, plain, simple things which can guide us beyond.

That may be a quite different direction to an approach of "self-expression", which, in Buddhist terms, might stay in the cycle of ego, ego expressing itself, etc. Somehow these Japanese arts seem to have a knack at disallowing self-expression.

Lastly, speaking of Yokoyama-sensei, he told me that we should not change the honkyoku - better to write you own new music - and that he has never intentionally changed them. The same as Nyogetsu has said above.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

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#7 2008-06-30 14:25:25

jdanza
Moderator
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2008-06-19
Posts: 85
Website

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Hello Friends
  This is a very sensitive area or me... I lived three years in Japan and found this aspect of learning frustrating to the point where I decided to go at it on my own. What turned me off the most was the politics and the egos. John Kaizan Neptune was a refreshing change and I studied with him for the last year or so. I fully agree with Justin about the trap of "self-expression", but after a good thirty years of Yoga, Meditation and Music Practice, I've come to simply trust my breath, and also to accept my stupidity and weaknesses as part of the package.
  Ultimately, I may simply not have had the "Karma" to come across my Teacher, and that's just as well. All our Paths are unique and all are wonderful. There simply are NO rules. One man's elixir is another man's poison. We must fight fundamentalism in all it's expressions, particularly inside ourselves, and remember that what worked for us won't necessarily work for anyone else.
  Honkyouku is great, but twinkle little star can be an amazing piece of Honkyoku too!. It all depends on who is playing (or Who is not :-)
Kind regards to all the Shakuhachi family...

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#8 2008-06-30 14:31:55

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
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Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

To take something that has nothing to do with Shakuhachi and cram it into a round hole ...

1
Do not be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. Buddhist systems of thought are guiding means; they are not absolute truth.

First precept of Engaged Buddhism, which is a Zen tradition.  For what it is worth.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#9 2008-06-30 15:28:23

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

jdanza wrote:

Hello Friends
  This is a very sensitive area or me... I lived three years in Japan and found this aspect of learning frustrating to the point where I decided to go at it on my own. What turned me off the most was the politics and the egos. John Kaizan Neptune was a refreshing change and I studied with him for the last year or so. I fully agree with Justin about the trap of "self-expression", but after a good thirty years of Yoga, Meditation and Music Practice, I've come to simply trust my breath, and also to accept my stupidity and weaknesses as part of the package.
  Ultimately, I may simply not have had the "Karma" to come across my Teacher, and that's just as well. All our Paths are unique and all are wonderful. There simply are NO rules. One man's elixir is another man's poison. We must fight fundamentalism in all it's expressions, particularly inside ourselves, and remember that what worked for us won't necessarily work for anyone else.
  Honkyouku is great, but twinkle little star can be an amazing piece of Honkyoku too!. It all depends on who is playing (or Who is not :-)
Kind regards to all the Shakuhachi family...

I dig the sentiment expressed here.

I once read an article about a man in Japan who had mastered playing simple tunes by blowing on a leaf.  If I recall correctly he would sit in the same spot every day in a local park and perform songs on the leaf.   After he passed away his sitting spot was memoralized with a plaque.

That degree of focus is very admirable, and, to me, impossible to emulate.

Example below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjJjF2lB … re=related

Last edited by Seth (2008-06-30 15:37:54)

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#10 2008-06-30 18:48:02

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
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Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Justin wrote:

Lastly, speaking of Yokoyama-sensei, he told me that we should not change the honkyoku - better to write you own new music - and that he has never intentionally changed them. The same as Nyogetsu has said above.

Nevertheless there is a dramatic single generation shift in interpretation of honkyoku between Watazumi and Yokoyama which pretty much proves that the honkyoku change because of individual expression.

In terms of pedagogy Yokoyama uses different notation than Watazumi and encourages the use of diametrically opposed types of flutes. Of course Watazumi was a jinashi fanatic and Yokoyama and his gang prefer highly worked modern ji ari. Watazumi also improvised a lot (although I don't know if he "taught" that).

The Yokoyama followers on the other hand have not changed what Yokoyama taught them very much. Some of this is probably attributable to the use of recordings as references.

I like the part about writing our own music. Good advice.

Chris Moran wrote:

How would have Jin Nyodo or Yokoyama Katsuya developed had they felt strictly bound to only one teacher's method or one school's restrictions?

Interesting examples, both guys combined different traditions to create their own repertoire and became iemoto in the process.

Jin Nyodo started as a Nezasaha player, went to Tokyo and studied Kinko with Miura Kindo. In that process he rejected some of Kinko which he considered to have become gentrified. That's why when we study Kinko in the Jin Nyodo tradition it's somewhat different than other Kinko streams. Jin Nyodo changed them back to what he thought they were like previously. He didn't change the gaikyoku. Then he traveled around Japan and picked up pieces from the various Myoan and other temples.

Yokoyama started out with Kinko, then studied Fukuda Rando (which was an unusual diversion) finally Myoan with Watazumi and then his own ideas and those of modern composers such as Takemitsu.

Both of these guys prove that you can always learn new things, but you can't forget what you already know! lol

lowonthetotem, what the hell is your avatar? Can you post a full sized version?


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#11 2008-06-30 18:58:30

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
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Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Tairaku wrote:

low on the totem, what the hell is your avatar? Can you post a full sized version?

I think lowonthetotem got it from the same guy who who designed Horst's avatar.


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#12 2008-06-30 19:38:56

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Tairaku wrote:

lowonthetotem, what the hell is your avatar? Can you post a full sized version?

It's a sleeping yellow kitteh, stuffed hammock-wise into the ample brazziere of a well-endowed woman.

A warm-fuzzy take-off on the Firefox logo.

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#13 2008-06-30 19:50:37

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
Website

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

edosan wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

lowonthetotem, what the hell is your avatar? Can you post a full sized version?

It's a sleeping yellow kitteh, stuffed hammock-wise into the ample brazziere of a well-endowed woman.

God knows we are seriously low on well endowed (or any kind of) women on this forum. It's like we're running a prison here or something. wink


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#14 2008-06-30 19:55:41

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Viz:


http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9003/firefoxlogokz0.jpg


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#15 2008-06-30 23:31:53

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Tairaku wrote:

Nevertheless there is a dramatic single generation shift in interpretation of honkyoku between Watazumi and Yokoyama which pretty much proves that the honkyoku change because of individual expression.

Yes. If I were to word them impression I get from how I am taught in our school, I would say we are encouraged to not try to change anything (to keep the honkyoku as a precious gift which we have been given by previous generations, and to pass on to future generations) - and at the same time, to express ourselves. That is, "make it you own". These two things may seem contradictory, but I believe it is in that contradiction that the path we are taught lies.

Listening to Yokoyama and Watazumi, I feel I can hear that Yokoyama is following Watazumi so carefully. And at the same time, he is clearly a unique Yokoyama.

Tairaku wrote:

In terms of pedagogy Yokoyama uses different notation than Watazumi and encourages the use of diametrically opposed types of flutes. Of course Watazumi was a jinashi fanatic and Yokoyama and his gang prefer highly worked modern ji ari. Watazumi also improvised a lot (although I don't know if he "taught" that).

About notation:
As far as I understand, Watazumi gave his students only very basic notation, just the bare bones. And Yokoyama gave his students no notation at all (for honkyoku). So each student would make their own notation during the lessons (perhaps often while listening to other student's lessons in the lesson room). Furuya-sensei has excellant writing and his notation is very good, so many students would just copy his! (When they were all studying under Yokoyama). So in the end, his notation because the standard and by now his notation is the official notation of our school.

About instruments:
I think instruments are more a personal choice. Watazumi never made Yokoyama use jinashi - he let him use ji-ari. Also, Watazumi was using shakuhachi different from those of his teachers. Also, I have used jinashi in lessons with Yokoyama and he has been very happy. Of course, the general trend is to use the same style of shakuhachi as the teacher. I think it helps the students to bring their sound closer to the sound of the teacher, which seems to be a big part of lessons. (Plus admiring their personal tastes).


Tairaku wrote:

The Yokoyama followers on the other hand have not changed what Yokoyama taught them very much. Some of this is probably attributable to the use of recordings as references.

The first two that come to mind are Okuda Atsuya, and Nakamura Akikazu. They both changed their style a lot from Yokoyama. Perhaps that was a deliberate move to become unique, and make their own styles. So "follower" may not be the correct term. By definition a follower follows. But each student makes their own choices. These two seem to have gone quite far into making their own styles, but even closer students express themselves uniquely. Yoshikazu Iwamoto's sound is quite different from Yokoyama, and even Furuya Teruo who has stayed by Yokoyama's side all the time, has a very characteristic sound of his own.


Tairaku wrote:

Chris Moran wrote:

How would have Jin Nyodo or Yokoyama Katsuya developed had they felt strictly bound to only one teacher's method or one school's restrictions?

Interesting examples, both guys combined different traditions to create their own repertoire and became iemoto in the process.

I think studying with different teachers and different styles really can help one to find ones own voice. I think it gives a broader view of the possibilities. Also I love how different teachers can bring out different strengths within the student. I think it was common in the Edo period for people to have several teachers, in the shakuhachi world and also shamisen and perhaps other instruments. It seems that the strictness of having only one teacher is rather modern.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

Last edited by Justin (2008-06-30 23:33:19)

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#16 2008-07-01 03:25:10

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

I agree Brian, maybe be could call it a gulag; it is rumored that the number of women shakuhachi players is increasing, however, but on the forum? To continue with Justin's ideas, the habit of strictly following one teacher was probably a product of the iemoto system, so maybe we could date it from the Meiji Period.

Many of Yokoyama's followers have been attending his workshops several times a year for the last couple of decades and they are encouraged to play the honkyoku from memory in front of Yokoyama and the other senseis so I think even without using recordings one gets enough input to keep playing them in the same spirit.  They do always send us the recordings before the events, however, and some students do record the songs while we are playing so I guess there are people who are doing a good bit of listening to recordings...   On rare occasions sometimes people do play another school's interpretation of a piece at one of the workshop student concerts; if the piece is played well then one is likely to get positive feedback (or one may get comments from several of the teachers but no comment from osensei, which usually means he wasn't very impressed).  Speaking of different versions, last week I posted a recording of my teacher Kyodo and I playing Banshikicho/Shika No Tone in the Kinko Chikudosha style on my music site (http://www.myspacemusic.com/danielryudo), the only recording of a traditional piece I've put up there so please have a listen if interested.  I've been studying with two different traditions for the last few years; it's provided a nice balance for me, though I have gotten a little criticism from my teacher in Kochi for picking up the odd fingering or phrase...it's just a matter of figuring out how to keep the styles separate when necessary.  I agree with you Justin in that it definitely gives a broader view of the possibilities...

Last edited by Daniel Ryudo (2008-07-01 03:45:23)

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#17 2008-07-01 07:14:16

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Hi there.
I would like to add a few comments here.

Justin wrote:

Listening to Yokoyama and Watazumi, I feel I can hear that Yokoyama is following Watazumi so carefully. And at the same time, he is clearly a unique Yokoyama.

I can also hear that that Yokoyama follows what Watazumi probably taught him very carefully. However, their playing styles differ a lot because of various reasons. Their performance environments are different. And their different instruments requires different techniques. And they are two very different human beings.
I admire Yokoyama a lot for what he has done. But he does not play honkyoku in the way it has been done for generations - no-one does. He certainly is a person, who has renewed honkyoku his way. If you listen to a few of the old recordings you got a link to, you can hear that Yokoyama's style is a new stage version of a tradition that was not created for a stage. This is all fine... music is alive and music should be evolving according to the environment. Yokoyama was a pioneer in taking honkyoku up on the stage, and he was hugely successful with it. Yokoyama has through Takemitsu been one of the most influential players in introducing the shakuhachi out to the West (and beyond). I actually think the renewing of honkyoku Yokoyama's way, is one of his biggest achievements. It really appealed to a new audience, created a huge following and injected a new interest in shakuhachi playing in- and outside Japan.

Justin wrote:

About notation:
As far as I understand, Watazumi gave his students only very basic notation, just the bare bones. And Yokoyama gave his students no notation at all (for honkyoku). So each student would make their own notation during the lessons (perhaps often while listening to other student's lessons in the lesson room). Furuya-sensei has excellant writing and his notation is very good, so many students would just copy his! (When they were all studying under Yokoyama). So in the end, his notation because the standard and by now his notation is the official notation of our school.

Giving your students only a basic score of the music is a tradition in shakuhachi transmission. What I have gathered from my research is, that when notation became a standard memory aide to give students, most often the teacher wrote the few new lines the student was to study in a lesson. At the next lesson, he might write the next lines. The notation was ONLY the basic notes. The bare bones, as you write. The reason for it is, that the notation was only memory aide. The rest the student was supposed to learn from the teacher, and have the freedom to change according to his personal aesthetics. I have met several very old shakuhachi players, who thought that young people today played horrendous renditions of honkyoku because they learned from too detailed and complex notation, which meant they did not know which notes were the main notes and which were ornaments and auxiliary notes. This is more and more a tendency. However, this began a long time ago. Just look at Jin Nyodo's score. They are amazingly detailed. They even depict a slight pitch fluctuation.

Justin wrote:

About instruments:
I think instruments are more a personal choice. Watazumi never made Yokoyama use jinashi - he let him use ji-ari. Also, Watazumi was using shakuhachi different from those of his teachers. Also, I have used jinashi in lessons with Yokoyama and he has been very happy. Of course, the general trend is to use the same style of shakuhachi as the teacher. I think it helps the students to bring their sound closer to the sound of the teacher, which seems to be a big part of lessons. (Plus admiring their personal tastes).

Instrument IS a personal choice, I agree. However, playing techniques change accordingly. If you play a jinuri instrument your breathing technique is indeed very different and a few fingering techniques changes too. Especially at the time when Yokoyama learned from Watazumi there was not a quest for shakuhachi makers to create jinashi shakuhachi which can be blown into as a jinuri. Makers told me very clearly that that was their aim now. They knew that jinashi and jinuri required very different breathing techniques, but as most people are jinuri players, they wanted to create jinashi that plays like a jinuri. Anyway, that was not the case back then when Y learned from W. From other Watazumi students I also heard how much Watazumi criticised Yokoyama for only playing jinuri. What I gather from eye witnesses, it seem like Yokoyama made a conscious choice to go against his teacher's will... Yokoyama's sound and timbre aesthetics is very different from Watazumi's. I consider these two players to be almost in two different worlds, although one is playing almost perfect renditions of what he learned from the other.
In an interview, I was also told by another Watazumi students that Watazumi criticised Yokoyama's use of muraiki. I was told Watazumi found Yokoyama's muraiki as something that did not belong to honkyoku playing. We can't imagine that today. Our ears and aesthetics have changed. Watazumi is a shakuhachi ancestor and soon all his students will be too... and then no-one cares. In fact, we love Yokoyama's impressive muraiki. smile How wonderful that nothing is static.


Justin wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

The Yokoyama followers on the other hand have not changed what Yokoyama taught them very much. Some of this is probably attributable to the use of recordings as references.

The first two that come to mind are Okuda Atsuya, and Nakamura Akikazu. They both changed their style a lot from Yokoyama. Perhaps that was a deliberate move to become unique, and make their own styles. So "follower" may not be the correct term. By definition a follower follows. But each student makes their own choices. These two seem to have gone quite far into making their own styles, but even closer students express themselves uniquely. Yoshikazu Iwamoto's sound is quite different from Yokoyama, and even Furuya Teruo who has stayed by Yokoyama's side all the time, has a very characteristic sound of his own.

Justin, you know by now it is wrong to write that Okuda Atsuya is a Yokoyama student. He learned very little from Yokoyama and has learned from many much more shakuhachi personalities who influenced him more. Many were some of the big names in Fuke style playing. Okuda travelled a lot in Japan to listen to different players and teachers. He received a lot of scores from different lineages and carefully compared, studied and made his own renditions of them. You can clearly see on his repertoire that it does not come from Yokoyama. If anything, he plays many Watazumi pieces Yokoyama was never taught. And he plays a lot of Fuke pieces from different temples. Last time I went to Japan he presented me for 4-5 new pieces he had made a Zensabo interpretation of. He is working all the time and keeps on developing both his playing style and his repertoire. I think a player should him/herself determine who is your teacher. Okuda says he has learned one piece from Yokoyama, which is hi fu mi hachigaeshi, because he liked Yokoyama's version of it.
Apparently Watazumi told Yokoyama to listen to jazz in order to be able to play honkyoku better. Yokoyama's mother then called up Okuda's mother (these two families had known each other for a long time as Yokoyama's father used to play with Okuda's koto playing grandmother) and asked her to send her son (Okuda) to teach Yokoyama jazz. Now Okuda was a jazz trumpeter at the time and played shakuhachi as well. According to Okuda they did an exchange where Yokoyama taught him hi fu mi and Okuda played jazz for Yokoyama.  Okuda has also told me that he liked coming to Yokoyama's dojo in the 60s, where many interesting artists came. So, he hung around there too.
But calling Okuda a Yokoyama student that has changed his playing style, I think is going too far into your own judgements. Let the player himself choose his affiliations. Then we can always think what we prefer to think. Okuda says very clearly he is not a Yokoyama student. Then let it be that way....


Justin wrote:

I think it was common in the Edo period for people to have several teachers, in the shakuhachi world and also shamisen and perhaps other instruments. It seems that the strictness of having only one teacher is rather modern.

What are your sources here?


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#18 2008-07-01 08:17:11

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
Website

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Daniel Ryudo wrote:

I agree Brian, maybe be could call it a gulag; it is rumored that the number of women shakuhachi players is increasing, however, but on the forum?

Dan, you always seem to cut through the BS with elegance. I'll really miss you at the festival. Hope to see you again soon! smile


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#19 2008-07-01 08:17:41

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

Tairaku wrote:
lowonthetotem, what the hell is your avatar? Can you post a full sized version?

Now that Ed has explained it, aren't you jealous of that little guy?  It's nice to know that my avatar is noticed even if what I type is less popular.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#20 2008-07-01 08:35:47

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
Website

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

lowonthetotem wrote:

Tairaku wrote:
lowonthetotem, what the hell is your avatar? Can you post a full sized version?

Now that Ed has explained it, aren't you jealous of that little guy?  It's nice to know that my avatar is noticed even if what I type is less popular.

Actually I have heard that people like what you have to say as well! smile


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#21 2008-07-01 09:44:54

Seth
Member
From: Scarsdale, NY
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 270

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

These posts were a wonderful morning read! Thank you.

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#22 2008-07-01 14:39:25

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

hi Pepe,
how was studying with John Neptune?
How was he different from other teachers?

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#23 2008-07-11 11:06:24

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Re: Interesting Statement about Zen

I was researching Kyorei and came across this statement, which I thought was appropriate to this thread.  I would not say that I advocate this POV, but I thought I'd post it.

N.B.: The Sadame document, probably dating from the end of the 17th century states in paragraph no. 19: "... During his takuhatsu (religious mendicancy) practice he (the komusó) should never play secular music or popular tunes. He is not allowed to participate in any artistic activities." (Takahashi - LEE, 1992, pp.117-121)

http://www.shakuhachi.cz/en_rec.html

I tried to google "Sadame" document and could not come up with much.  DOes anyone have a historical context for this document?


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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