Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ
World Shakuhachi Discussion / Go to Live Shakuhachi Chat
You are not logged in.
Tube of delight!
#1 2008-07-14 00:44:01
- nomaD43
- Member
- From: Portland, OR, USA
- Registered: 2006-07-22
- Posts: 96
Who Knew? Monty invented shakuhachi?
Funny thing I saw today while looking through the selections of graphic design books at my local Barnes and Noble bookstore. I saw this book that shows graphic representations of musical instruments from around the world, indexed by time period.
I had seen a representation of a jointed (obviously a ji ari) shakuhachi. Looking at the index for the reference number it was described as a Tai Hei Shakuhachi from the 6th century. Further on in the book (I believe around the 13th century) came the non-jointed shakuhachi (presumably a jinashi).
So, if you go by this book ("World Musical Instruments" by Maria da Gandra, Maaike van Neck, ISBN-13: 9789057681165), then that would mean that Monty Levenson invented the first shakuhachi some 1500 years ago - he doesn't look anywhere near old enough.
It was also my understanding that Ji Ari flutes came before Jinashi.
I guess you just can't trust what you see in books any more. If only the authors had really done their research on the history of the instruments they have depicted in their book. If I found two completely absurd errors in just the two instruments I looked at, I can only imagine how many other errors exist in this book.
Damon
Offline
#2 2008-10-13 06:16:54
- amokrun
- Member
- From: Finland
- Registered: 2006-08-08
- Posts: 413
Re: Who Knew? Monty invented shakuhachi?
Sorry for the thread necromancy. However...
nomaD43 wrote:
It was also my understanding that Ji Ari flutes came before Jinashi.
I have little to no knowledge of the early history of shakuhachi. Even so, is this a known fact or just "I heard it was so?" kind of thing? What is this based on? Somehow it would seem to make more sense that jinashi existed first as jiari is essentially an improvement on the construction technique. When making a jiari flute, one basically has to create the equivalent of a jinashi first. It would seem logical to assume that at some point in history someone figured out that by taking a piece of bamboo, crafting a sharp edge and then blowing towards it you can create a sound. Taking further steps from there, you'd add a couple of holes to make a decent instrument. Anyone can make a lousy jinashi with minimal effort if they happen to have access to bamboo which happens to comes in a form that is readily suitable for such task.
What is the basis for the claim that jiari flute design is older? Did I miss a book or a study on this? I'd honestly love to know even if it makes little difference in the end as to which one came first.
Offline
#3 2008-10-13 11:21:49
- edosan
- Edomologist
- From: Salt Lake City
- Registered: 2005-10-09
- Posts: 2185
Re: Who Knew? Monty invented shakuhachi?
It is absurd to say that jiari shakuhachi preceded jinashi shakuhachi.
Also, somewhere in my dim memory there's a recollection of an early shakuhachi marque 'Tai Hei'.
Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.
Offline
#4 2008-10-13 14:45:11
Re: Who Knew? Monty invented shakuhachi?
Excellent!
I already bought the book. Thank you Damon, for drawing my attention to it !
Sometimes people shouldn't be allowed to publish books!
I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz
Offline
#5 2008-10-15 12:17:36
- nomaD43
- Member
- From: Portland, OR, USA
- Registered: 2006-07-22
- Posts: 96
Re: Who Knew? Monty invented shakuhachi?
amokrun wrote:
Sorry for the thread necromancy. However...
nomaD43 wrote:
It was also my understanding that Ji Ari flutes came before Jinashi.
I have little to no knowledge of the early history of shakuhachi. Even so, is this a known fact or just "I heard it was so?" kind of thing? What is this based on? Somehow it would seem to make more sense that jinashi existed first as jiari is essentially an improvement on the construction technique. When making a jiari flute, one basically has to create the equivalent of a jinashi first. It would seem logical to assume that at some point in history someone figured out that by taking a piece of bamboo, crafting a sharp edge and then blowing towards it you can create a sound. Taking further steps from there, you'd add a couple of holes to make a decent instrument. Anyone can make a lousy jinashi with minimal effort if they happen to have access to bamboo which happens to comes in a form that is readily suitable for such task.
What is the basis for the claim that jiari flute design is older? Did I miss a book or a study on this? I'd honestly love to know even if it makes little difference in the end as to which one came first.
Amokrun,
Sorry if I have confused you, or left some inaccurate information.
My comment was not based on any kind of historically accurate source, in fact I don't remember if I have even heard that Jinashi preceeded Jiari or if it was just an assumption that one would have started with bare bamboo before thinking of adding urushi. But then I could be totally wrong.
most humbled,
Damon
Offline