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#1 2008-07-30 10:54:52

axolotl
Member
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2007-11-16
Posts: 215
Website

Playing 'anything'

I have a question about the chromatic capabilities of the linguica--er, shakuhachi.  I'll frame it like this.  When I hear something neato, be it Stravinsky or Anoushka Shankar, I am compelled to go to my guitar or the piano and pick out the melody.  I'm not super fast or facile on either instrument, but I'm decent enough.  My question is--with sufficient experience and training, and bearing in mind the range limit of a 1.8, can most pros play any (not super fast or florid) melody with grace and facility?  Can you just pick up your shakuhachi and go "hm, well, this is a jam in F#, and I can handle it"?  I imagine this comes up a lot in modern music for the shakuhachi...

I ask this because I want to get good on the shakuhachi, really good, and I'm hoping in the answer is "yes"!  I may have to make the answer "yes" even if I hear "no"!

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#2 2008-07-30 11:19:45

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Playing 'anything'

The answer is 'yes', but it's very helpful to start early (say, in your 20's) and practice 6-8 hours daily.

Examples of only two people having this facility would be John Kaizan Neptune and Riley Lee.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#3 2008-07-30 11:55:08

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

you can play everything. But, have to practise a Lot of scales.(perfect pitch helps too:-)

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#4 2008-07-30 14:50:15

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

axolotl wrote:

I have a question about the chromatic capabilities of the linguica--er, shakuhachi.  I'll frame it like this.  When I hear something neato, be it Stravinsky or Anoushka Shankar, I am compelled to go to my guitar or the piano and pick out the melody.  I'm not super fast or facile on either instrument, but I'm decent enough.  My question is--with sufficient experience and training, and bearing in mind the range limit of a 1.8, can most pros play any (not super fast or florid) melody with grace and facility?  Can you just pick up your shakuhachi and go "hm, well, this is a jam in F#, and I can handle it"?  I imagine this comes up a lot in modern music for the shakuhachi...

I ask this because I want to get good on the shakuhachi, really good, and I'm hoping in the answer is "yes"!  I may have to make the answer "yes" even if I hear "no"!

While there are apparently people who can make a reasonable stab at Stravinsky or Shankar (I'm guessing Shankar is East Indian classical) my answer would be no. First, Although I've heard Riley Lee knock out some very good non-Japanese-traditional songs, I haven't heard him do anything as complex as Stravinsky, I understand that there is at least one player who has tackled East-Indian classical and has become proficient, but I never have heard him and even if I did I do not understand the Intricacies of East Indian classical so I couldn't say how well he is really doing. Heck, even though Steve Gorn on bansuri flute sounds perfectly fine to me, he's quick to point out that he has no where near the capabitlity of the Indian masters. So how am I supposed to believe that a Westerner on a Japanese instrument really got it down?
  The shakuhachi just doesn't have enough holes. That doesn't mean the notes aren't there, but to land a note in between the holes nice and solid with a tone consistent with the notes on the holes seems impossible. Silver flute players struggle with the inconsistency of the C# going to the D on their flute that's made for their music, and yet I'm supposed to believe that a shakuhachi player can master a Western chromatic scale while at the same time I'm told that the differences in tonality between the tones is what makes Japanese music so interesting. I'm still skeptical.
   However, while I struggle with some diatonic pop tunes on shakuhachi, I know, and have heard, players who have gotten much further. I haven't heard it but I'd believe baroque and early classical music could be mastered considering it was originally written for one-key transverse flutes. I doubt that anyone can pull of a good rendition of something like the Hindemith sonata or even more contemporary pieces that stretch the ability of the silver flute they were written for. Also, that jam in F# you mention, while way beyond my abilities (... hey guys, can you play that in D minor smile ), seems totally possible.
   Another point I might add is that I understand a lot of shakuhachi players add hole or two. I'd think that could expand your range immensely.

Last edited by radi0gnome (2008-07-30 14:53:17)


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#5 2008-07-30 17:07:49

axolotl
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From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2007-11-16
Posts: 215
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

I heard an excerpt of Riley doing a pavanne by Fauré, I think, which is more the kind of melody I had in mind than pyrotechnics on a five holed flute.  Maybe I should have said Satie instead of Stravinsky? smile  I'm not talking about any sort of incredibly virtuosic melodies...let's say, nothing with wild jumps and nothing faster than 16th notes.  However, listening to Anoushka the other day, I thought "Hm...can I play this nice Phrygian sounding raga?" and gave it a shot.  You know, something like D-Eb-F#-A-Bb.  This is not beautiful in phrasing and execution at my level of learning, but I think I can get it eventually--just wondering how far people have gone. 

Oh, and having read up on these 7 holed shakuhachi, I think it's more important (for me) to appreciate the different timbre and quality of the meri notes and accept that rather than getting an instrument which would play all the notes with a more similar timbre. 

I guess I can re-include Stravinsky since I gave the opening to the Rite of Spring a try a week or two ago.  What is a screaming high note on a bassoon is just ro in kan.

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#6 2008-07-30 18:32:24

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

"Anything you think can't be done, someone will come along and do it."

Thelonius Monk


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#7 2008-07-30 19:10:28

caffeind
Member
From: Tokyo
Registered: 2006-04-13
Posts: 148

Re: Playing 'anything'

Might be waiting a while for someone to come along and play Donna Lee

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#8 2008-07-30 22:53:07

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

One's ability to play anything using the shakuhachi as their instrument of choice is commensurate with their technical ability on the instrument and their understanding of the piece, however that still leaves the question 'why'.  Though the shakuhachi has the capability of playing more than a twelve tone scale, there are innate colouration and timbrel qualities to standard fingerings that might conflict with the intentions of the composer of the piece.  Oppositely, it's rather like attempting to play Kohjo no tsuki on the silver flute.  All of the notes can be executed, but the colouration of what we know as meri notes will likely be difficult.  It would seem better to learn to play it on the shakuhachi.  I think that some  compositions that weren't intended to be played by the shakuhachi do lend themselves to the peculiarities of the instrument thus making meaningful execution possible and even pleasingly listenable (for example Goodbye Pork Pie Hat by Charles Mingus or Spain by Chick Corea) but others may not and might just be left well enough alone. 
I have also come across some compositions that were written for the shakuhachi by composers whose knowledge of the instrument was limited and certain passages were unplayable as written due to the peculiarities of the instrument.  For example, when asked to play hi no meri in forte, or when asked to play koro koro between high D and F on a 1.8 .  In any case, moving into these realms requires a body knowledge of the instrument that generally takes a great deal of time and consistent practice to acquire.


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#9 2008-07-31 03:37:52

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

axolotl wrote:

I ask this because I want to get good on the shakuhachi, really good, and I'm hoping in the answer is "yes"!  I may have to make the answer "yes" even if I hear "no"!

Hi axolotl
I think if you want the answer to be yes, then it is yes. Just practice. I think most people can't do it, because they don't practice to do it.

Yokoyama Katsuya used to play along with the radio every day. Anything might come on, and he would play along. That's the kind of practicing you might want to be doing.

I think most of us play a more limited repertoire. For the Kinko players among us, if you asked us to improvise along with a honkyoku or sankyoku which we had not heard before, we could probably do an okay job. Jeff mentioned something about that recently, when doing fine playing a honkyoku from the notation, even when he couldn't see it! It is a language we are familiar with. But then if it were Jazz or something like that, many of us would have no clue. But then someone like John Neptune would be right at home. Or for Indian music Tim Hoffman would be right at home. So I think it just depends what you practice.

radi0gnome mentioned about the lack of holes on the shakuhachi. That could be better to be different for other kinds of music. If it is the music which is most important, just drill some more holes why not. Thus you have the 7 hole "shakuhachi" and so on. Kind of (?) shakuhachi.

Then you have the question of are you just going to use the instrument as you see it, and play your music on it, or, are you going to take anything from context in which it co-evolved, and with which, for most shakuhachi players, it is inseparable. Thus we have the unique character of meri notes, as Jeff mentioned. Some players of other genres (Indian, Jazz) actually try to make each note have the same tonal character. i think they think they need it like that for their music. So, that seems like being quite objective about the instrument, as a tool. Something more personal to the shakuhachi, might be to actually use the tonal characters and uniqueness (e.g. meri notes) in the adopted genre, thus really making it shakuhachi music. That is, letting the music and the instrument collaborate more.

Jeff Cairns wrote:

For example, when asked to play hi no meri in forte

Hi Jeff.
Wouldn't that be chi kari? I know it can be difficult on modern instruments, but it used to be a very common note in sankyoku.

Best wishes

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

Last edited by Justin (2008-07-31 03:39:12)

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#10 2008-07-31 04:00:59

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

You "can" play chromatic stuff on shakuhachi but it doesn't always sound great and when it does sometimes you accomplish that by avoiding the things that make shakuhachi unique. Then it starts to sound like a normal flute. But there are certain crossover points where you can play western music with the shakuhachi and retain some of the traditional techniques and sounds. That's when things get interesting and have some integrity.

But even John Neptune says he plays Charlie Parker stuff, but at 1/2 or 1/3 the real speed so it's not likely you can do bebop with the same facility as a saxophone for example. And while you can easily play Satie, I don't think you'll be able to play "Flight of the Bumblebee" not to mention Conlon Nancarrow.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#11 2008-07-31 04:10:16

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

Justin wrote:

Hi Jeff.
Wouldn't that be chi kari? I know it can be difficult on modern instruments, but it used to be a very common note in sankyoku.

Hi Justin,
.
Typically chi o'kari is fingered hi no meri (Bb on a 1.8) in sankyoku and still is a very common note.  In my experience, one problem in playing chi o'kari in the traditional way(perhaps as you suggest) is that it is executed through unusual head positioning with conventional fingering.  This creates its own problems with articulation. Clearly the choice for the note in question was hi no meri due to the quickness of phrasing and the need for clear articulation.
I've also been required to play a Bb pianissimo to forte in another piece.  Playing Bb pianissimo is no problem, but working a crescendo to forte is.  This suggests some problems that composers can run into when tryimg to write in a notation style that didn't evolve with the instrument in question and with only a limited understanding of the instrument's inherent subtleties and capabilities.


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#12 2008-07-31 04:24:32

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

By the way, I'd like to mention that I loved Brian's music (was it Jazz?) at the festival in Sydney. I was very pleased, because it really did sound like a shakuhachi. Good job! That's what I meant about collaboration.

Hi Jeff, yes, it seems like nearly everyone nowadays reads chi kari but plays hi meri. The only player I have met whom I know uses chi kari, is my teacher Araki Kodo V. He also happens to be my favourite sankyoku player. Sometimes he does use hi meri in its place, but it depends on the nuance he feels is necessary in that place, and sometimes he feels it really needs chi kari. It is quite difficult to play well.

I totally get what you mean about non-shakuhachi players having difficulties composing for shakuhachi. Do you know Marty Regan? He was here studying shakuhachi, and I think he studied some koto too. As he is a composer, i think he wanted to become familiar with each instrument he was composing for. Full respect to him! And the piece I heard of his, performed in Sydney, was really wonderful.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

Last edited by Justin (2008-07-31 08:21:19)

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#13 2008-07-31 05:25:00

Bruce Hunter
Member
From: Apple Valley CA
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 258

Re: Playing 'anything'

axolotl,
We all have our own personal resonances, so what works for one may not work for another. Some Euro-centric type music works well on shakuhachi, some doesn't. Grieg's Ase's Death, Saint Saens' le Cygne, some of the Bach Sarabandes and the famous Air, Amazing Grace, for instance(s), work well for me. Satie's Gymnopedies and Gnossiennes have an on-paper appearance of "should work", but when playing those works as a solo line, only a pale imitation appears, as those particular titles require the sustained conflicting and resolving harmonies to have their full effect. Flight of the Bumblebee, or as I call it, Blight of the Fumblies works best on strings, for which it was written, but what the hey! Give it a shot! One never knows what one will discover during an exploration.
later...


Develop infallible technique and then lay yourself at the mercy of inspiration. - Anon.

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#14 2008-07-31 07:14:23

Kerry
Member
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 183

Re: Playing 'anything'

Coltrane's 'A Love Supreme' is a cool groove on any size shakuhachi.


The temple bell stops, but the sound keeps coming out of the flowers. -Basho

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#15 2008-07-31 09:40:22

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

Hi Justin,
I would like to hear the difference that chi o'kari makes in a piece.  Can you direct me towards a recording?
I'm familiar with Marty Regan's work.  In fact, the first piece on my most recent CD was his composition Shinonome no uta which was performed I think by Kakizakai at the festival with the same koto player that I recorded with, Izumi Fujikawa.  I'm sure it was a beautiful rendition.


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#16 2008-07-31 09:50:11

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

Hi Jeff
That's great to hear you recorded Marty's work!
Araki-sensei has a great 3 CD set out. I will ask him where it is available.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

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#17 2008-07-31 12:12:47

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1061
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

Hi all,

radi0gnome wrote:

axolotl wrote:

I have a question about the chromatic capabilities of the linguica--er, shakuhachi.... My question is--with sufficient experience and training, and bearing in mind the range limit of a 1.8, can most pros play any (not super fast or florid) melody with grace and facility?  Can you just pick up your shakuhachi and go "hm, well, this is a jam in F#, and I can handle it"?  I imagine this comes up a lot in modern music for the shakuhachi...

While there are apparently people who can make a reasonable stab at Stravinsky or Shankar (I'm guessing Shankar is East Indian classical) my answer would be no. First, Although I've heard Riley Lee knock out some very good non-Japanese-traditional songs, I haven't heard him do anything as complex as Stravinsky, I understand that there is at least one player who has tackled East-Indian classical and has become proficient, but I never have heard him and even if I did I do not understand the Intricacies of East Indian classical so I couldn't say how well he is really doing. Heck, even though Steve Gorn on bansuri flute sounds perfectly fine to me, he's quick to point out that he has no where near the capability of the Indian masters. So how am I supposed to believe that a Westerner on a Japanese instrument really got it down?

I heard Steve a few months ago play at Lincoln Center. Blew me away. He also played Fue on that evening. None of the music was "Classical" but the musicians were all classically trained.

The shakuhachi just doesn't have enough holes. That doesn't mean the notes aren't there, but to land a note in between the holes nice and solid with a tone consistent with the notes on the holes seems impossible.

This is what gives shakuhachi music it's character. The notes in between are Dark notes and open tone holes are Light notes - Ying and Yang.

Silver flute players struggle with the inconsistency of the C# going to the D on their flute that's made for their music, and yet I'm supposed to believe that a shakuhachi player can master a Western chromatic scale while at the same time I'm told that the differences in tonality between the tones is what makes Japanese music so interesting. I'm still skeptical.

The pros I've studied with seem to understand the interplay between the Yin and Yang in a phrase, even when playing Western music. I wonder whether they're after an even tonal quality in every note. I heard John play a Mozart piece with a quartet a few years back in Tokyo, the shakuhachi still sounded like a shakuhachi - with dark and light notes. What was very distinct with John's playing  that evening (aside from virtuosity) was his perfect pitch. So perhaps it's not equal volume that matters when playing chromatically, but good pitch? My 2 centz.smile

Another point I might add is that I understand a lot of shakuhachi players add hole or two. I'd think that could expand your range immensely.

Yes, as others have mentioned this is how the Seven-hole shakuhachi came in to exhistence - to facilitate the Insempo scale for contemporary Japanese music.

I made a 3.4 about three years ago for an Indian film score. The director wanted  a deep, organic, guttural sound and liked the E pitch but I couldn't physically play a 3.4. So I made a Raga shakuhachi. He guided me into finding the right scale that fit my hands. I basically drilled holes and taped them up until he liked the scale. 

Click here to hear it: http://www.yungflutes.com/samples/eraga.mp3

It's a four hole 3.4 in some kind of Raga scale.

Who was it that said, if the finger can not go to the hole, bring the hole to the finger? smile

Namaste, Perry


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

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#18 2008-07-31 14:44:40

axolotl
Member
From: Los Angeles
Registered: 2007-11-16
Posts: 215
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

I really appreciate all of the thoughtful responses. 

Justin wrote:

axolotl wrote:

I ask this because I want to get good on the shakuhachi, really good, and I'm hoping in the answer is "yes"!  I may have to make the answer "yes" even if I hear "no"!

Yokoyama Katsuya used to play along with the radio every day. Anything might come on, and he would play along. That's the kind of practicing you might want to be doing.

....Something more personal to the shakuhachi, might be to actually use the tonal characters and uniqueness (e.g. meri notes) in the adopted genre, thus really making it shakuhachi music. That is, letting the music and the instrument collaborate more.

The idea of an amazing player such as Yokoyama Katsuya jamming along with the radio is an awesome image.  smile  Yes, I think that's the kind of thing I'd like to be able to do, someday.  I don't intend to neglect learning Kinko and Tozan lineage pieces...it's very clear that the historical fundamentals of shakuhachi are first and foremost in one's training and grounding.  It's just that I don't want to stop there--I am a noodler.  smile

I agree, Justin, that trying to escape the unique 'shakuhachiness' of the instrument in performing a non-traditional piece would be counterproductive.  Not letting those meri notes speak as they should would transform a piece into a new beast entirely.  Although--I still do wonder how the heck Riley does it on "El Sueño", because in that piece, tsu meri does not sound different from the rest of the melody. 

It's interesting to think that there are plenty of wide-range, chromatic instruments that can theoretically 'play anything' out there, but certain repertoires work for them, and others don't.  Tairaku and others mentioned 'Flight of the Bumblebee'.  You can check out some really amazing marimba players kicking serious butt on this piece on YouTube.  As an interesting side note, other expert marimba players will chime in and criticize this or that particular 64th note on that piece or a toughie piece by Keiko Abe (an amazing composer, by the way...check out Dream of the Cherry Blossoms, based on Sakura)...such is the way of percussionists.  You'd never get that type of critique from shakuhachists, I think, because different technical aspects are emphasized as opposed to speed and precise timing.  However, a marimba would sound totally silly doing something largo and legato, like Bach's Air on a G String, and probably would sound even sillier trying to attempt honkyoku!

My personal favorite for someone taking other instruments' repertoire and making it their own is Jake Shimabukuro, who rocks the ukulele.  He definitely emphasizes the high timbre and tremolo abilities of that instrument, and transforms guitar and vocal melodies in a very successful marriage between the music and the instrument.

This pretty much exemplifies playing 'anything' on shakuhachi to me.  A totally awesome clip of James Nyoraku Schlefer playing his piece "Duo No. 2" with Reikano Kimura.  It's kinda rockin' in parts. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeKihWVL2T4

Last edited by axolotl (2008-07-31 14:59:07)

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#19 2008-08-01 02:35:12

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

Hello everybody.

Nobody has mentioned Fujiwara Dozan yet, so I thought I might just add this to the discussion. In my opinion, he is the person who has taken the shakuhachi furthest in pitch accuracy and virtuoso playing - well, especially when discussing "playing anything". I mean here other styles than honkyoku. His classical playing is amazing on the shakuhachi... although it's not a style that interest me. I have heard him at a few occassions, and he does blow my mind in what he can. Him and John Neptune have taken the shakuhachi into new areas of music with their amazing playing.


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#20 2008-08-01 06:49:35

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

axolotl wrote:

I agree, Justin, that trying to escape the unique 'shakuhachiness' of the instrument in performing a non-traditional piece would be counterproductive.  Not letting those meri notes speak as they should would transform a piece into a new beast entirely.  Although--I still do wonder how the heck Riley does it on "El Sueño", because in that piece, tsu meri does not sound different from the rest of the melody.

Hi axolotl
I don't know that piece, but if it is in kan, he is possibly playing ro kari. It is a note used often in modern music, which is above the pitch of tsu meri (100 cents above ro, i.e. the western interval) and has a kari tone colour. That s when that kari fits better than meri for that pitch in modern music. It also occurs in sankyoku although many players do not use it. In the notation, in a certain key there will be simply written "ro", but players usually seem to play tsu meri. This is an example of where the notation more importantly indicates the tone colour than the pitch. It should be played as ro kari.

Best wishes

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

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#21 2008-08-01 20:42:31

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

hej Axoloti, now that you got your answer you just have to practise:-)

Its very helpfull to have a practice regime everyday.

This my regime.

I warm up with scales..slow ( & tuner). I play the all the modes starting from the some note.
After finishing with the modes I play some long notes (10 min)
After that I work on intervals (exercises are endless) for example, I play Minor seconds for 5 min, up & down kind of like improv but using only minor seconds, later I do major seconds etc..
After intervals I play again long notes (the more the better)
This is my tune up:-) cardio core work-out.
After that I work on the pieces. (this days honkyoku)

Another good exercise to play "anything" is..take a simple song (pop/jazz whatever) that you like & play it in diferent keys. use a tuner (very important)
It takes a lot of practice, but you get to know the instrument very deep.

Have a good practice,
Geni

Last edited by geni (2008-08-01 23:17:10)

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#22 2008-08-01 21:29:57

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

This has been posted elsewhere on the forum:

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=lkkEx7AUzyM

Shakuhachi: Taro Matsumoto, Piano: Roger Walch. "Noeud de Lune" (composed by Roger Walch)


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#23 2008-08-02 09:18:51

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Playing 'anything'

axolotl wrote:

I agree, Justin, that trying to escape the unique 'shakuhachiness' of the instrument in performing a non-traditional piece would be counterproductive.  Not letting those meri notes speak as they should would transform a piece into a new beast entirely.  Although--I still do wonder how the heck Riley does it on "El Sueño", because in that piece, tsu meri does not sound different from the rest of the melody.

The reason for the quick moves and the loud meris is that Riley is playing a David Brown 7-hole flute on El Sueño (although he is plenty quick and able to play relatively loud meris on a proper 5-hole as well).


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#24 2008-08-02 11:44:25

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: Playing 'anything'

Could somebody straighten me out? Is the only difference between a Tozan flute and a Kinko flute the shape of the blowing edge inlay? If so, the difference is zero, is it not?  If that is so, why do we even talk about it? That has always confused me.


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

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#25 2008-08-02 12:17:14

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Playing 'anything'

Tozan music sounds different to Kinko music. Traditionally, makers have made shakuhachi to specifically suit the music which will be played on their shakuhachi. Not only that but makers were often important players in or even heads of particular schools. That means the instruments were made not only for, for example Kinko ryu, but even more specifically for the particular school and its particular needs in an instrument.

For example, Tozan shakuhachi often sound sweeter, maybe somewhat nearer a flute sound some say. I believe they wanted a sound closer to Western music. Also meri is usually difficult - I think they don't use dai meri. And aesthetically they are different. Often more snazzy, with silver bits and so on, and the roots are fashioned differently than Kinko shakuhachi. Mouth part also fashioned differently, which effects playing and sound.

Nowadays you might not always find these differences. In the old days they used to say "You can only make as well as you can play". In those days the best makers were the best players. (Araki Kodo still says this). Nowadays it is often heard "You can't be a great maker and a great player, you can only do one or the other".

This results in people who may specialize in only making. And they may be less strongly connected to any particular school. Perhaps rather than making for their own performance and for their students (and therefore very particular to their school), they are now making for their customers.

So now there are some makers who will put any utaguchi on a shakuhachi and it becomes "Tozan" or "Kinko". That is probably what is confusing you.

Another point of interest is that most of the professional makers making today come from Tamai Chikusen, a Tozan maker. Many of his students, and students' students, make shakuhachi for Kinko players. This, and the competitiveness of makers, results in somewhat of a blending of the two styles. For example it can be common now to see snazzy "Kinko" shakuhachi, with silver bits and so on. Perhaps the sounds may be mixed up too.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

Last edited by Justin (2008-08-02 12:27:33)

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