Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

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Tube of delight!

#51 2008-08-16 18:40:16

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3203
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

It's OK Ted, this is a forum. People are free to post any questions or make any statements they want. But since Gishin is the moderator of the "Zen" forum he likes to spank people when the conversation runs astray. That's OK too. Party all the time! lol


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#52 2008-08-16 18:41:05

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

They existed and they played Shakuhachi and thats about it.

Enlightenment why talk about it? What is there to talk about?

All we need is good food some education find a nice women or men respect nature then get ready to kick the bucket. Enlightenment if there is such a thing you will jus waste your time chasing after a stinkky donkey with Hemmoroids wink Meaning there is no point in doing that and you achieve nothing in the end. I see so many ppl talking and searching about enlightenment etc  but in reality all they are missing is a LIFE or some meaningfull relation.


Anyway here is some random enlightenment for all of you!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpFmEvdJjvw


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#53 2008-08-16 18:48:56

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Here is some more REAL Classy Enlightenment!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxloUBCYuFM


You see the concept of Enlightenment is all about perception. Some idiots think Seagal is some sort of Guru smile


To me just looks like fat Elvis talking about Buddhism


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#54 2008-08-16 18:53:56

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3203
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

I usually avoid talking about these subjects but seems to me seeking after enlightenment is a form of materialism which will prevent you from ever attaining it. Most people fall within certain parameters. If you met a truly enlightened person you'd probably know it because they would be much different than the rest of the riff raff. I haven't met anybody like that, and the last thing I'd expect to find attached to that persons mouth would be a shakuhachi. Shakuhachi is surely a tool for self-development but it would take more than that to attain enlightenment. Which doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for "ichion jobutsu" just that we shouldn't expect to accomplish it.

Regarding the Komuso it is said that they believed blowing shakuhachi would temper their behavior. I don't know if they thought they'd attain enlightenment from it.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#55 2008-08-16 19:01:05

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Tairaku wrote:

Regarding the Komuso it is said that they believed blowing shakuhachi would temper their behavior. I don't know if they thought they'd attain enlightenment from it.

The exact expression for that is called kokoro Tanren/ 心鍛錬 (Soul forging/tempereing) and originally comes from the warrior class. Initially having to do with sword smithing and then moved into warrior lingo in saying that you should temper or forge your soul like the forging of a sword.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#56 2008-08-16 19:07:17

Kerry
Member
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 183

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Ted wrote:

I started this thread because I read of the historical existance of a group of Japanese Buddhist monks who reportedly believed that playing shakuhachi was a path to enlightenment.

Hey Ted,
A common fool quoting a great teacher:
.
Meditation is not
A way to enlightenment,
Nor is it a method
Of achieving anything at all.
It is peace and blessedness itself.
It is the actualization of wisdom,
The ultimate truth
Of the oneness of all things.
Dogen (d.1253)
.
Just substitute 'shakuhachi' for 'meditation' in this and go practice some long tones. There's nothing to believe. smile


The temple bell stops, but the sound keeps coming out of the flowers. -Basho

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#57 2008-08-16 19:09:25

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3203
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

I noticed on Horst's myspace he posted:

"wurst und bier eqal zen und enlightenimngment"

That's probably more easily attained than going about it through the shakuhachi. lol


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#58 2008-08-18 10:24:08

Dean Del Bene
Member
Registered: 2007-06-17
Posts: 39

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

"Why use two words when none would do?" A humorous woman quoting her husband.


Stand still and choose a target way ahead. Close your eyes. Begin a powerful exhalation, then open your eyes and gaze at the target, with your exhalation going. It's like you touch the target with your breath. That can be continued with the spirit of exhalation after there's no more air coming. Before you feel weakened, close your eyes and inhale.
That's good against dogs, too, by the way. When you pass a hostile dog, gaze at a target far ahead, and use this breathing exercise. Most dogs will ignore you, however hostile they feel. Other animals, too - even the most nervous ones.--Stefan Stenudd

Maybe this works for monks who talk about fisting enlightenment?
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg10/zeligszen/shakueyes.jpg

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#59 2008-08-18 11:28:53

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Dean Del Bene wrote:

Maybe this works for monks who talk about fisting enlightenment?

I looked up what monk means, and found it comes from the Ancient Greek "monachos"  meaning "single, solitary". I'm quite sure we can't keep our dear Gishin away from the pub and his lovely family. So I wondered if he might be a Priest? Then I became quite certain when I read the definition of priest. Bearing in mind Jesus's analogy of being a fisher of men:

Priest - A blunt tool, used for stunning and killing fish

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

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#60 2008-08-18 11:50:10

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 917
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Hi Ted.
A late-comer to this subject you have started.

Ted wrote:

I know Honkyoku is a musical transcription of Japanese Buddhist chanting.

Honkyoku is not a musical transcription of Japanese Buddhist chanting. Honkyoku is a genre on its own within Japanese traditional music. I have tried to analyse several styles of Buddhist chanting and compared it with honkyoku. There are, of course, some similarities in ornamentation and aesthetics, but they really don't have much in common.
There are more min'yo influence in honkyoku than Buddhist chanting.
It is hard to say why there is no direct musical connection between Buddhist chanting and honkyoku. Most Japanese shakuhachi scholars believe komuso did not do chanting and zazen. But I haven't seen convincing sources - nor convincing sources that shows the contrary. But that might have something to do with the difference in style.... although this is all guessing.

Ted wrote:

It is believed that the sounds of Mantra have the power to unblock chakra and calm mental disturbances that keep the mind from enlightenment. Am I correct in believing that Japanese Buddhist monks believed playing shakuhachi transcribed mantra would have the same power as reciting the mantra itself?

It is written and said everywhere that komuso monks played the shakuhachi to reach enlightenment, so in a sense the answer to your question is yes. But I have been wondering why then haven't we heard of enlightened komuso monks then. So, last year when I spent 6 month in Japan, I tried to ask all the scholars and senior shakuhachi players this question: Is there any written source describing an enlightened komuso or anybody else who reached enlightenmet by playing the shakuhachi?
Nope! was the answer.
So, I asked them 'Why not'? Most of the time they just answered 'don't know'. Some said to me 'Because reaching enlightenment requires much more hard work than playing the shakuhachi!' Playing the shakuhachi is hard work! Lots of hard work - just as much hard work as learning another instrument. But now having a regular meditation practice, I must say: Meditation is harder! That may be one answer, but I am only guessing here as well.

Ted wrote:

Would it be possible to create shakuhachi transcriptions of the mantra recitation of Tibetan or Chinese Buddhist mantra recitation?

Of course it is. Tibetan mantras can be very melodic and beautiful. I am sure you can transcribe them either into shakuhachi notation or just learning by ear from a recording. It might even suit the shakuhachi very well. I would be very excited about hearing it if you do! Good luck!

Last edited by Kiku Day (2008-08-18 11:51:19)


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#61 2008-08-18 12:53:58

rpowers
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 285

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Dean Del Bene wrote:

Maybe this works for monks who talk about fisting enlightenment?
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg10/zeligszen/shakueyes.jpg

Isn't that a pair of Tairaku's spectacles?


"Shut up 'n' play . . . " -- Frank Zappa
"Gonna blow some . . ." -- Junior Walker
"It's not the flute." -- Riley Lee

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#62 2008-08-18 14:42:37

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 401
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Several articles that I've read (including Bill Malm's) have said that Shomyo has influenced every form of Japanese music. It is difficult to say exactly how, as Kiku points out, but it's not so difficult to hear the similarities in some of the ways the sounds are dealt with, i.e. the bending up of tones at the beginning and the bending down at the ends of riffs, the pulsating rhythms created by the Nezasa Ha sasabuki technique and the pulsating sounds used in various Shomyo, etc. etc.  The notation of Shomyo, shakuhachi, and Noh texts and other song forms are also somewhat similar. There's probably not enough concrete evidence put forth at this time to make a definitive statement about the influence of Shomyo on shakuhachi, but I think it's worthwhile considering the effect of chanting on the general psyche in Japan (more so many years ago). Chanting is all over Asia to an extent that people who haven't been there or who haven't studied anything using chanting couldn't imagine. I have copies of Wasan chants that almost every shakuhachi player that hears them thinks they were made to be played by shakuhachi and thinks they sound like shakuhachi.

There is concrete evidence that there is an influence of Budhist thought in the early songs: Koku, Ajikan, Mukaiji, Sanya,Banshiki, Reiho, Somakusa etc. etc. and also evidence the influence of chanting of sutras on some of the early shakuhachi music: Horai, Kyorei, Darahni,etc. These songs are in form and funcntion like sutras and a Darahni is a sutra. As far as Shomyo goes, even if komuso didn't chant shomyo or sutras, one has to ask where they got their unconscious ways of dealing with sound? If Shomyo and sutra chanting influenced so much of Japanese music then they would have been exposed to the influence at some time since the probably heard some music some where in their lives. Another perspective is that if someone chants they get used to dealing with sounds in a certain way, i.e. the way they form the syllables and deliver them, the cadence and so on. And if this same person came to play shakuhachi it would be logical if they dealt with sound in a similar manner?  I'm probably more willing than most to go with "where there's smoke there's fire". Of course, I'm not writing an Ethnomusicology textbook either. So, I'll stay at the point where I can advise people to chant your songs and then play them and see if it makes a difference for you in your playing. I go alone with many teachers in Japan that say "if you can't sing it, you can't play it", as you have no other reference than Cds and your teacher's playing. Otherwise, I do have a couple untapped resources in Japan so I'll hit on them concerning this and see what it brings to light.

Last edited by chikuzen (2008-08-18 15:28:06)


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#63 2008-08-18 17:06:47

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3203
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

chikuzen wrote:

. Chanting is all over Asia to an extent that people who haven't been there or who haven't studied anything using chanting couldn't imagine..

I hear a lot of Pali chanting in Sri Lanka when I'm there. Usually when I wake up I hear it, nice way to rise. It sounds a bit like certain honkyoku. Seeing how India is the big bang of Eastern culture it probably migrated East.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#64 2008-08-18 19:34:03

Jordan
Member
From: Vancouver
Registered: 2006-12-08
Posts: 24
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Kiku Day wrote:

It is written and said everywhere that komuso monks played the shakuhachi to reach enlightenment, so in a sense the answer to your question is yes. But I have been wondering why then haven't we heard of enlightened komuso monks then. So, last year when I spent 6 month in Japan, I tried to ask all the scholars and senior shakuhachi players this question: Is there any written source describing an enlightened komuso or anybody else who reached enlightenmet by playing the shakuhachi?
Nope! was the answer.
So, I asked them 'Why not'? Most of the time they just answered 'don't know'. Some said to me 'Because reaching enlightenment requires much more hard work than playing the shakuhachi!' Playing the shakuhachi is hard work! Lots of hard work - just as much hard work as learning another instrument. But now having a regular meditation practice, I must say: Meditation is harder! That may be one answer, but I am only guessing here as well.

I have a couple of randome thoughts on this that are ratteling around my brain housing unit.

first of which is that if thees monks of emptiness, or straw mat monks were anonymous, than it would seem unlikely that there would be any record of their enlightenment.

The second is that I remember a discourse identifying Ikkyu, as a Fuke monk.

Yamaboshi: Fuke Monk, where do you go?
Ikkyu: Wherever the wind blows me.
Yamaboshi: And if there is no wind?
Ikkyu: Than I will blow my own.

I can't remember where I saw that, but I suspect it was written by Ikkyu himself.
Then again, it could have been a different Ikkyu.

I think it is also important to note that Fukeshu was suppressed by the Japanese Government and I imagine that allot of their records were suppressed as well.

The combination of these thoughts is no answer, but I just felt like saying something.

Just some thoughts.
Jordan


Be Well and Happy!
Gassho!

Jordan

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#65 2008-08-18 22:30:58

Ted
Member
Registered: 2008-08-09
Posts: 14

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Thanks chikuzen and Kiku Day. Your answers create more avenues worth exploring. I am still interested in the theories, the process that these monks proposed as a path.

Gishin, I grew up a white boy in Harlem. I was in more life or death altercations by the age of 7 then you will experience in your whole life. It takes more then a refference to manual anal penatration to shake me up.
Your penchant for talking down to others as if any other oppinion were a joke and treating a note of protest with mockery are symptomatic of a bully. I should know, I used to be one.

"All we need is good food some education find a nice women or men respect nature then get ready to kick the bucket".

It takes all types to move the world. But how about helping out those in need. How about increasing, altruism, patience and love? How about decreasing selfishness, anger and hatred? When I speak of enlightenment, I mean
becoming a better person. Who knows about Budahood? Why bother talking about such a far off myth. But right now, at everypoint of our day, we choose to live for our self or others and these decisions set the tone for our death. I almost died doing a free ice climb 14,00 ft. in the Tetons. At an insanely risky point in the climb I realised
every selfish action I ever performed would create suffering at my death. Working at the Dept. of Human Services here in Portland, Or. as well as caring for my 2 disabled children I do my best to actualise that ideal.
Three years ago my son spent a year in the Hospital. He barely made it, but I met alot of kids who did'nt, or who were left vegatative, blind , crippled... There is so much need out there, to just live for yourself is criminal.

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#66 2008-08-18 23:14:04

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1519
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

rpowers wrote:

Dean Del Bene wrote:

Maybe this works for monks who talk about fisting enlightenment?
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg10/zeligszen/shakueyes.jpg

Isn't that a pair of Tairaku's spectacles?

Brian would look fetching in those, I'm sure.

What bothers me, however, is Mr. Del Bene's term "fisting enlightenment."


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#67 2008-08-18 23:49:18

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Ted wrote:

When I speak of enlightenment, I mean
becoming a better person.

If you can't get advice on that for free here, you can get it from a whole bunch of new-age seminars. They usually aren't free, and I don't know if any of them are Buddhist or Zen, but many of them deliver what they promise. If you want, you can email me and I'll let you know which ones I tried and liked. I'm no longer affiliated with any of them, but I still like what they did for me.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#68 2008-08-19 00:41:27

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

The enlightened doesn't play safe.
Things become very clear when you are in a corner, or on the edge, one foot standing on what you know and the other on what you don't.

Kel.


Kia Kaha !

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#69 2008-08-19 05:16:34

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Ted wrote:

Your penchant for talking down to others as if any other oppinion were a joke and treating a note of protest with mockery are symptomatic of a bully. I should know, I used to be one.

Dear Ted
I think the written word, especially on forums, can sometimes go a bit strange. For one, it is easy to write things in a way we would not when we talk. And then also there is all the tone of voice and so on, which actually conveys most of what we say.

I met Gishin in Sydney at the shakuhachi festival. It was a real pleasure, and he is very friendly and gentle. Sometimes I feel as if Gishin is playing a particular part, on this forum. Like a role. Anyway, one suggestion I have is that there is a difference in tradition, and our printed words about our respective traditions might be appearing to conflict. We come from the Tibetan tradition, in which there is often detailed talk of the path, and we are generally to familiarise ourselves with the path as an important part of our practice and study - hence the importance placed on studying the Lam Rim (Stages of the Path to Enlightenment) in the Gelug tradition, Gampopa's Jewel Ornament of Liberation in the Kagyu tradition, and so on. Perhaps in Gishin's tradition it is different. I think some of the Zen way of going about things may be to "shut up and get on with it", as some members have voiced. That can sound rude but I'm sure they mean well by it.

There is great value in getting an understanding of the path. From my own tradition, the function of that is actually to remove doubt, so that we can get on with carrying out our master's instructions confidently, without being distracted by conceptual thought, especially in the form of doubt. That is, it is a directly practical way of being ABLE to "shut up and get on with it", not because we are made to, but because we are ready to. Perhaps it is this aspect which is within what some here have voiced.

Generally people here on the forum are very well meaning, so, even if a post seems harsh, it may be best to imagine that they wrote it with a kind smile on their face.

Best wishes

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

Last edited by Justin (2008-08-19 05:25:23)

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#70 2008-08-19 08:04:10

Kerry
Member
From: Nashville, TN
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 183

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Justin wrote:

Ted wrote:

Your penchant for talking down to others as if any other oppinion were a joke and treating a note of protest with mockery are symptomatic of a bully. I should know, I used to be one.

I met Gishin in Sydney at the shakuhachi festival. It was a real pleasure, and he is very friendly and gentle.

Generally people here on the forum are very well meaning, so, even if a post seems harsh, it may be best to imagine that they wrote it with a kind smile on their face.

Very kind words, Justin.
I checked out your Shakuhachi Making page and very beautiful tones and playing. Great sounds through the monitors, thanks... -kerry


The temple bell stops, but the sound keeps coming out of the flowers. -Basho

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#71 2008-08-19 08:30:07

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Ted

Thank you very much for teaching me and telling me how it should be and how I should do it wink

So your from the ghetto and cannot be moved by my stuff. Was I trying to move anybody? Just trying to say that there was some B.S in the thread and pointless energy. So if you cannot be touched or moved by such stuff why then did you get so agitated? Seems you were the only one to bite in this fashion.

Looks like you should grow out of your ghetto anger. The part that I love the most is when you write about being in more life and death situations than I was. Is this the only point of comparison you have towards me that will make yourself feel good? Do you know where I come from what I did in life etc? So before slapping stuff like this in reply in such a childish way I strongly suggest revising your posts or thinking.

All I was doing is my usual gimmick which seems to work almost 90% of the time.

So you wanted Zen? Well you got served!

With love, Compassion and Kindness from me to you! (Not being sarcastic but true here)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmVFnhO3A98


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#72 2008-08-19 08:32:41

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Hi Ted,

I'm sorry to hear about your family troubles, particularly those of your children.  Don't take this badly, but I read your post over a few times, and find an element of bitter desperation in it.  I think you are being a tad too defensive if I may say.  I know Gishin, in person, he is a decent guy, with a wife, child, and a good character. 

At the risk of putting words into Gishin's mouth, I think he was trying to say that "talk or enlightenment is not enlightenment", just as "the tao that can be mentioned is not the tao".  Intellectual understanding is a great thing, but the curse of the scholar is inaction, they/we/I/ often think that understanding is enough.  Sadly, it never is.  If I see a car speeding toward me, it's great to recognize the theory of causality and make a soundly reasoned argument in favour of moving to avoid being squished, but if that's all I do then I will be a splatter on the road.  I also need to actually move.  I need to act.  Anyways, If you read my post earlier in this thread, you will see that my own opinion is to wholly abandon this silly word enlightenment altogether, as it can, as Brian pointed out, lead to a kind of spirtual materialism.  Insights become posessions.  Enlightenment = mud in a snow filled valley.

What Gishin seems to be saying is go about your life, educate yourself as befits your interests, find someone you love, be a good person, and let whatever happens simply happen.  Just as with shakuhachi, when you try to force the notes nothing comes out.  It is only when you chill out and forget about it, that you get a great sound.  Same with all things in life, as I'm sure you already know. 

Don't worry.  It's a forum, and as Justin quite intelligently pointed out, sometimes there is a dissonance between the written intent of one person and interpretation on the other end.

Last edited by Lorka (2008-08-19 08:38:22)


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#73 2008-08-19 09:30:45

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

Ah, most interesting, Grasshopper!

Now we have Gishin apologists...


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#74 2008-08-19 09:33:46

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

edosan wrote:

Ah, most interesting, Grasshopper!

Now we have Gishin apologists...

Where did you see an apology?

Ha ok I get it. PPl doing apologies for me? Wel I dont thikn they were doing that . Just trying to put details on what I was trying to do since most did not see exactly what I was geting at.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#75 2008-08-19 10:06:23

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Honkyoku and Enlightenment

When somebody says something strongly, there are several ways I can take it:

1. As a statement that is either true or false, that can be either wholly accepted or rejected.
2. As a threat to my own beliefs.
3. As something to be contemplated, from which I might be able to get some grains of insight.
4. As a course correction, something that may bump me a little bit out of my rigidly self-determined path and therefore into greater freedom.

Choice 1, I think, is not a particularly valid way of dealing with human communication in a relative world.
Choice 2 indicates that I need to work on myself -- I TRY to be thankful for anything that makes me work on myself, though my emotional reactions tend to march at the head of the response parade.
Choice 3 is a good idea.
Choice 4 is a blessing.

Back to Choice 2 for a second: I think that if we are able to dissipate some of our old left-over anger at our fathers and teachers, people who COMPASSIONATELY and intelligently take an authority-figure role are some of our best friends.

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