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#1 2008-09-04 09:50:45

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I figured that Pro's (people who perform) would be a good source of information on this.

I am a rather self-conscious person.  I really enjoy the time that I get to practice in the morning, but it is no mistake that it is usually 4 or 5 a.m.  That way, I don't have to lilsten to anyone (my wife mainly) comment on my lack of proficiency, not that she is harsh.  It is more the anticipation of it than anything else, if that makes sense.

As way a way to combat my own self-consciousness, I started to record a few practice sessions.  I've shared them with some folks, which was not an easy task for me, and I am appreciative of all the kit-gloves involved in the resulting commentary.  Still, I am starting to develop a little bit of an ear, and I notice that as soon as the record button is hit, the playing is worse.  This is, no doubt, a result of tension and a fair amount of "trying" to make a good recording, and that is just in front of a machine.

It is even worse if someone is actually listening.  One thing that came to mind within a couple of months of picking this instrument up is play for some people.  I volunteer at a hospice and thought it would be cool to be able to play for some of the patients.  Lack of skill notwithstanding, I am not sure that I will ever be able to get up in front of people.  It has always been a problem for me.  In college I wrote poetry and actually won some awards for it, but when it came time to read the piece in front of people, I never failed to stumble over the words, interject stupid "Um's" and "Uh's," and generally make a train wreck of myself.

My motivations are pure.  I'd like to bring some tranguil music to some folks dealing with a less than tranguil time in their life.  I don't want to "put on a show" or be praised.  I just wondered if there are any words of wisdom from people who perform regularly.  Are there strategies that can be encorporated?  Are there exercises, mental exercises maybe, that can be done to help get one over the hump of being overly concerned with what every single person thinks?  I understand that practice makes perfect and certain amount of confidence can be accomplished through proficiency, and I am working dilligently on that.  Maybe I am looking for a magic spell that doesn't exist, but I thought I'd ask.

Please feel free to move this post if this is not the proper venue.  Thanks in advance.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#2 2008-09-04 11:57:56

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

A few things:

First of all, when playing publicly only play what you really know well -- what you've memorized or almost memorized. Then, when playing the piece, put all your focus on being "in the moment" -- listening to each sound as it arises and ends. Listen to the beginning of each breath, the middle, the fade, the silence in between breaths. Every time your mind wanders, bring it back to the sound (or silence). There is no other task -- no trying to be good, no worrying about whether something is right or wrong, etc. Nobody is going to know whether you are "right" in terms of the notes of the piece, but they will know if you lose focus. If you are able to achieve good focus on what you're doing, then you can also think about how you're giving this music away as a gift to the listeners, not something to be judged but simply given.

While playing, remember that stage fright is a feedback loop: you get a little nervous, then that makes you nervous about being nervous, etc. etc. If you notice fear arise, just notice it and let go. You may need to do this repeatedly. Just try to keep letting go over and over again rather than letting the feedback loop become a noose.

This doesn't work for everyone, but I try to establish a personal rapport with members of the audience -- looking in somebody's eyes, playing a section of a piece for an individual out there, etc. This calms me, makes me feel like we're doing this together rather than a cold harsh me/them scenario.

For many, myself included, it's best not to eat a lot before performing -- that can mess with concentration and make you less calm. Try to establish a meditative state before performing -- take time to chill, do some stretches, breathing exercises, etc. I also try to get out of the performance venue right beforehand and experience the larger world -- this puts it all in perspective.

I don't drill too much right before a gig. I practice and warm up a bunch that day, but then as performance time approaches I do other things. If I work too hard on a piece right before I play publicly, it puts me back in that "getting judged" space rather than the "gift" space.

Am I a hippy or what. Well, maybe I can remedy the new-aginess of the foregoing with this:

If stage fright is a chronic ongoing problem that is not lessened by trying things like those above, there are always beta blockers. I went through a period of stage fright a few years back, did beta blockers for two gigs, and have been fine ever since -- the experience of doing the two gigs without stage fright was enough to change my associations. Just about any doctor will prescribe them if you say you're a working musician.

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#3 2008-09-04 16:27:07

Lance
Member
Registered: 2008-01-18
Posts: 74

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

I'm a teacher, not of music but a college EMT (Emergency Medical Technician) course.

I'm pretty sure that THE best way to overcome nervousness in front of a crowd is to perform in front of crowds, as often as possible. In time, you'll get used to it, and even enjoy it, then your music can soar.

I doubt that there is a magic spell that will speed up the process, although 'mindset', as mentioned above, is very important.


“The firefly is a good lesson in light, and darkness”

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#4 2008-09-04 21:52:27

lowonthetotem
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From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
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Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Thanks, Phil.  These are all very good suggestions, although they seem to fall into the realm of "Easier said than done."  I can certainly appreciate what you are saying, but once that loop begins feeding on itself, I certainly have difficulty breaking it.  I imagine it takes practice.

That brings us to Lance, who also has good advice.  However, taking it in isolation from from Phil's response, if I just practice the same terror response over and over, I imagine it would just reinforce my less than profitable feelings.  Still, I know where you are coming from.  What you meant to say is, "Get in front of people and perform, SUCCESsFULLY."  Otherwise it is practicing failure.  I am not in a situation where I HAVE to do this, so I am not sure that just gutting it out will work.

In my own search for an answer, I came across this.  Others dealing with the same issue could benefit, so I thought I'd post it, although i does notmention Shakuhachi specifically.  Still it is kind of meditation 101, but it does ocus it specifically on social anxiety, which is what I think I deal with in this area.  I think it is what most stage fright revolves around.  If you'd prefer to skip the 48+ minutes, Phil DOES offer a much more to the point concise interpretation.  If you are like me, and need a little more reinforcement (handholding) to actually put it into practice, you could check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf6Q0G1iHBI


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#5 2008-09-04 22:24:22

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Everything is easier said than done. That's why talking was invented...


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#6 2008-09-04 22:31:21

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Well I dont see anything Hippy or new agey on your post. Which by the way I find very instructive and confirmed some of the sutff I was doing as well. Anyway I see at being very clear and to the point. There is lots of clean helpfull points in there

I truly think that what you wrote is good old common sense that we tend to forget when we get caught in the loop. What you wrote about is quite similar to the methods I was given by my Iaido master. He gave me the checklist and practices that one needed to do in the old days before going to a duel in order to be fully prepared to any eventualities.

He said that this was the stuff he used in his life not only in martial arts but in his Shinto priesthood or for any important matters.

The rules went as follows.

#1 Try to clear as much of your previous or ongoing business before you get at it.

#2 Get your gear,Kimono,Sword haircut in shape at least 1 day before the duel.

#3 On that day when you wake up take a good bath and get your hair fixed. Then sit around and relax until at least 3 hours before you need to get to the duelling grounds.

#4 Dont eat too much and at least dont eat for at least 3 hours before the duel. As far as drinking do not drink any tea since it can overexcite you. Just drink lukewarm water making sure it is never too hot or cold.

#5 3 hours before you get to the grounds go and check around and see who is there and where you can run if shit hits the fan.

#6 On the hour before just stretch your arms and legs BUT DO NOT MAKE ANY MENTAL PICTURES OF THE FIGHT ITSELF.

Ok so those are old school and mostly irrelevant but I feel most of it can be adapted and does seem to be along the same lines as what Nyokai wrote.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#7 2008-09-04 22:50:01

Josh
PhD
From: Grand Island, NY/Nara, Japan
Registered: 2005-11-14
Posts: 305
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Phil, Lance and Gishin gave some great advice! Like Lance said, playing in front of people is essential. But take it in baby steps. Start with just opening the windows when you practice maybe..someone is always listening.  When you get a little more comfortable take yourself to the woods or even better a park. Gradually move to an area where there are a few more people walking by.  Play in front of friends and family, people who will give positive support.

Phil also made a great point of only playing the songs you are comfortable with. I find myself always more at ease before a concert if I know I'm going to be playing pieces I've really become close to. I might dare to say that maybe you should wait until you are really comfortable with the song and your technique. Record your sounds and listen objectively, is it really music that you would listen to if you heard it? 

If you're taking to the stage I find that image training helps. Practice as if you were actually in that hall with those people watching you. (Which may contradict Gishin's #6, but really if you are playing and practicing songs in different environments I think this also allows the mind to realize no 2 performances will be the same, unexpected things happen so just roll with it)

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#8 2008-09-04 22:52:00

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

playing shakuhachi well & also performing in public is a skill is a profession. You got to invest time (and everything else:-) to get good at it.
Is like every other profession or skill takes years and etc...
I am just being realistic.

Good luck

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#9 2008-09-04 22:57:26

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Josh wrote:

If you're taking to the stage I find that image training helps. Practice as if you were actually in that hall with those people watching you. (Which may contradict Gishin's #6, but really if you are playing and practicing songs in different environments I think this also allows the mind to realize no 2 performances will be the same, unexpected things happen so just roll with it)

Thats for sure.

Anyway those rules/guidelines were for when going to duel with live baldes in the old days. So I strongly suspect that this was to make sure you did not foool yourself into thinking technique such and such would really work on that day. For Shakuhachi/ performing music I would not totally rely on that point .


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#10 2008-09-04 23:18:26

jdanza
Moderator
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2008-06-19
Posts: 85
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Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

geni wrote:

playing shakuhachi well & also performing in public is a skill is a profession. You got to invest time (and everything else:-) to get good at it.
Is like every other profession or skill takes years and etc...

That is so true!. So many musicians don't realize that  performing is an art in itself and should be cultivated and studied just like their instrument. I worked a full time job with a theater/movement company (looks like Perry has done lots of that too) as a composer and performer for a few years and it literally changed my life. Many musicians think that is BS, that the music "should speak for itself", but they don't realize how much better music "speaks" when your communication, stage presence, and body language are clear and conscious.

That said, I remember the first time I performed Honkyoku in concert (after no less than thirty years as a performer) I felt like I was doing my yoga , naked, in public. It's really a very private and intimate thing, and it feels like it was never meant for "performance".
Nyokai's great advice is very close to how I handled it . Breath, a state of inner peace (aided by meditation, yoga, and often a nice glass of wine smile), and a sincere desire to bring peace and inner healing to those who are listening are for me the most important. The rest is just getting used to it... Once you experience people's appreciation and joy you'll relax into it and trust yourself more.
Best wishes...

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#11 2008-09-05 00:18:32

Lance
Member
Registered: 2008-01-18
Posts: 74

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

lowonthetotem said:

"What you meant to say is, "Get in front of people and perform, SUCCESsFULLY."  Otherwise it is practicing failure.  I am not in a situation where I HAVE to do this, so I am not sure that just gutting it out will work"

This is a glass half full argument, and you are looking at feeling terrified before, during, or after a performance as failure (reinforcing bad habits), but, every time you perform you will have succeeded, in performing, (maybe not your best, and maybe with some stress) and you should try to see that as a sucess!

Again, easier said than done, but don't expect easy, that might be the first step.


“The firefly is a good lesson in light, and darkness”

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#12 2008-09-05 00:26:17

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Agree with you Pepe,
its not enough to have the product..got to sell it also:-)

Back to topic Jeff. When you perform in front of people-just play with you heart & soul-show them the magic (of music/shakuhachi) & your feelings. Communicating your energy to them is key.

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#13 2008-09-05 00:52:05

chikuzen
Dai Shihan/Dokyoku
From: Cleveland Heights,OH 44118
Registered: 2005-10-24
Posts: 402
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Thanks Phil for sharing what's going through your mind as and before you go onstage. Your comments show you have experience and of course experience dealing with this in your own way. The comments about "being in the moment" and even "what not to eat before hand", etc., have little relevance because once you get used to playing onstage all that stuff disappears. Your practice regimen and your lifestyle, however, are what's important. That means you practice "good" practice enough, and balance your life so that you have the energy you need on the stage (to focus). The more you play on stage the more you get used to it, that's it. You get more confidence as you play more often. One's own nervousness is only self centered, it has nothing to do with the audience. They are thinking about god knows what and expecting god knows what when they come in to listen. The reality of it is what do you do every day when you play and just do that when you go on stage. That's it. If you're thinking about something else then that's not focused. Clinically, it's probably called crazy. Why would you be thinking of something that's not part of what you are doing at the time?  Just focus on the playing and what you need to do to get the desired result, like Phil says. I've had students tell me their mind wanders when their playing. Just do one thing at a time. What else would you be thinking about?  If I have 6 concerts in 10 days then it's clear. Sometimes the first concert is, "what the hell"? I'm in a box (room) with all these lights on me again and people staring at me and what does this have to do with my experience of playing shakuhachi? I personally struggled (still do sometimes with the first concert), or at least the first song. By the 3rd concert I'm staring at people like Phil said and enjoying everything. I used to play sports and it was similar but less personal than shakuhachi. The first few minutes were warm up. And there also were warm ups. In sports they use the word "execute". I find that a helpful reminder. Music on stage is much less forgiving than sports. The way people play onstage, line up, where to sit , bow, curtain calls, etc., has nothing to do with basic shakuhachi playing itself. Stage protocol has it's own history and is very arbitrary in the sense that it's all space/time culturally created ways of doing things. But you have to deal with it. Where to sit, how to manipulate the shakuhachi just to get it to your mouth and back down, leave the stage, come back for a curtain call, etc. I find most of the stage etiquette for shakuhachi very western influenced and arbitrary and even comical.  Why does history at this time leave us such parameters to move within just to share shakuhachi with others?  Stage mentality is different than play at home mentality. As our voice of eternal experience in this realm, Brian Tairaku Ritchie once mentioned to me, a lot of these these people have never excelled in anything else in their lives and really "get their rocks off by being on stage". Hope it's ok to quote you Brian and I hope you remember the conversation. It was the first time I met you, I believe. This reveals that it's often  competitive and ego driven. But if that's what brings the best out of you then so be it. There are great musicians who don't like to go on stage and it's our loss,  or just try to control everything about the stage they go on to deal with it.   I prefer to think of myself as an educator when going on stage rather than an entertainer. I think about how I've practiced, and just try to focus on that. It's ok to play for people. Not that many people have heard of shakuhachi and they'll certainly really enjoy what you do if you just do it, and nothing more. Just have some good natural pride not ego driven pride and that'll be part of the equation that helps people enjoy shakuhachi.

   I'm sure Brian could help us with his vast experience in this area. Huh Brian?


Michael Chikuzen Gould

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#14 2008-09-05 01:04:38

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
Historical Zen Mod
From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
Registered: 2006-04-25
Posts: 612
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

chikuzen wrote:

The comments about "being in the moment" and even "what not to eat before hand", etc., have little relevance because once you get used to playing onstage all that stuff disappears.

As far as this point goes I would beg to differ.

If for any reason before going to sing sutras for a funeral etc I was filled up with all kinds of food by the receiving familly or temple that needed me to be there to help I will feel like crap and although I can sing and do all this is required I know damm well that I was not at 100% and I could have done way better.

I tested this at home a couple of times and indeed if I had a good meal before reciting stuff my voice and power focus etc were not as good. Now that I know this I am always carefull and try not to eat before any performance of any kind. Wil this be of help for everybody maybe not but I do think that being carefull of what we eat, how much , how long before any performing etc can really help in making sure no goof up happens.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#15 2008-09-05 01:38:50

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

chikuzen wrote:

I'm sure Brian could help us with his vast experience in this area. Huh Brian?

I don't have stage fright. I am more comfortable on stage than in the audience!

lowonthetotem, do not fear. The folks you'd be playing for in the hospice will not be judgmental about your playing. Remember we play an instrument and music they have never heard before, so they have nothing to compare it to. They will just accept it for the soothing sound it is. Stick to otsu stuff at first like Kyorei. After a few performances and nothing goes wrong you will develop confidence. It's a wonderful thing you want to do for the patients and they will definitely appreciate it. Don't worry about whether or not you sound like Yamaguchi Goro, because the average person can't tell the difference between a beginner and a master shakuhachi player.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#16 2008-09-05 02:09:20

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

lowonthetotem wrote:

That brings us to Lance, who also has good advice.  However, taking it in isolation from from Phil's response, if I just practice the same terror response over and over, I imagine it would just reinforce my less than profitable feelings.  Still, I know where you are coming from.  What you meant to say is, "Get in front of people and perform, SUCCESsFULLY."  Otherwise it is practicing failure.

One way may be to not think in terms of "successful". There are a few things I would like to say.

In Tibet, there is a practice for Buddhist yogis to go begging, from house to house. It involves visualizations and prayers, the essence of which is compassion. One is offering everything to all sentient beings. At the same time, one is begging. From door to door. The responses can be varied. Some people will treat you like a king - a wonderful holy person, dedicated to the precious teachings of the Buddha. How wonderful! Others may shout abuse at you as a bum, a leech on society. The essential training which this practice is, is training you in taking all responses equally. Not to get a big head when people love you, and not to get angry or depressed when people hate you. One is to maintain equanimity in all circumstances.

I have played a lot on the streets. Also people respond in different ways. Some people take me out to eat. Some people grope me as I play. Some people insult me or compete with me. All sorts. In the end, most people don't even pay any attention!
Don't get me wrong, it is very rewarding, and actually there is mostly very positive response. But I think it is better to not focus on that. Try to take it all equally. This is a little bit "hard core" as an approach perhaps. But this will really train your mind.

In your case, if you take the advice about playing a lot in public to get used to it, the street would seem the best place to me. If people don't like your playing, at least they are free to just walk away. That way you never have to feel guilty about forcing bad music on people who can't escape! (E.g. old people's home performance etc.) This in itself should help you to let go of your stress. So what if it's not good?! If they like it, they can stay, if not, they can go. So you can relax about that. Also, there is not schedule. You can play for however long you want.

This time issue is also key. If you do a short arranged performance, it may be short. You may be nervous for the whole thing, and they may or may not like it. Repeating that, as you say, might (also might not) practice your terror response. The thing about the street is, the first time it is scary, but you play for maybe one hour or so. Play everything you have memorized. Then play it all again. And again if you want! The people have all gone by anyway - no-one knows you have played it already! So, you can play PAST your nervousness. It gives you time to get over it. It is great that you feel comfortable already, and then stop. That leaves a good memory in you. Then, if you go back each time to the same spot, you start to feel comfortable in that spot. It becomes homely and welcoming for you. you might even get some regular fans.

Lastly I wanted to mention kyudo. I have no idea if you have kyudo where you are (Japanese archery). That helped my performances. When you do kyudo, there are other people there. but it is not a performance. You are just engaging in the art, in public. And if you are tied up in hope and fear, it is not kyudo. If you are disappointed when your shot is bad, you are doing it wrong. If you are proud when you hit the bull, you are doing something wrong. Just do it. See. See where it goes. Ah.
I think that is a good way to play.
That there are people there, is some kind of coincidence.

If I ever judged whether my playing in the streets was successful, it would be to question, how was my heart today? Was my heart with love and compassion today? If so, it was a successful playing. Or, was I out of that, was I thinking "how much money am I getting today? Will those people give me some money?" etc, then, that day was unsuccessful playing.

Good luck.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

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#17 2008-09-05 09:30:32

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Thanks for all the great posts.  I think you are right, Lance.  I tend to assume that the terror will happen already.  I guess I am creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yes, Ed, as in most things you are correct, but don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.  No matter how well I am repaired, I won't last through the apocalypse. smile  As always thanks for everything.

I've noticed the eating thing myself, Gishin, practicing in the morning.  Sometimes I'd have breakfast first, but then my breath was not so deep.  I think what Chikuzen means is that these kinds of concerns take care of themselves ultimately.  Now I don't crave food too much first thing in the morning, as I anticipate a healthy breakfast of many deep breaths.

J'danza and Geni, I am actually a sales guy for a living, so I know it is just as much about the sizzle as it is the steak.  Thanks for reminding me.

Playing in the street is an interesting idea, as well as just opening the windows.  Thanks Justin and Josh for helping me understand that I'll need to take a step at some point if I want to get anywhere.  I think I was getting caught up in the loop Phil mentioned even before I actually took that step.  I created a small meditation area near my front door, where I sit in the fall and and winter.  The summer here is full of humidity and mosquitos.  As the weather dries up and cools, I'll try playing there.  We'll see if my neighbors bend an ear.

I think you are right, Brian.  As a beginner, I often have difficulty noticing good playing from poor playing, although it seems I always notice when I play badly.  It weighs on me because I feel like it is quite often, but I guess that is how things happen when you begin something new.  I think much of it revolves around the gift space that Phil describes.  I want to be the super big Tonka truck or dirt bike that everyone wanted for Christmas.  I guess that, at the moment, I have to be satisfied being the itchy sweater, tube socks, or underwear.  They do not invoke so much euphoria, but they are useful nonetheless.

I am actually looking forward to playing near my front door now.  There is a low palm there that whistles in a breeze, shushing and ticking its fronds against the side of the house.  I don't think I could ask for better accompaniment.  Rhatnasambhava will be a good first audience, always keeping the same half smile  on his lips and hand out to sooth my anxiety.

Thanks again everyone.  I hope that I did not neglect to mention anyone specifically, as all the advice seems very good here in the light of day.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#18 2008-09-05 10:36:46

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Justin wrote:

In your case, if you take the advice about playing a lot in public to get used to it, the street would seem the best place to me. If people don't like your playing, at least they are free to just walk away. That way you never have to feel guilty about forcing bad music on people who can't escape! (E.g. old people's home performance etc.)

From what I've seen of old people's homes and from judging lowonthetotem's example of his playing, I don't think he'd have anything to feel guilty about.

I agree about the street playing being a good thing, although if it's in an area where there's a lot of energy it can be just as overwhelming as a stage in front of an audience with high expectations. I ran into that once when I was playing tin-whistle, I wanted to get past stage-fright by playing in public but just couldn't bring myself to play on the street. Parks and renaissance festivals were fine. Actually the best thing I decided on to help with stage fright that worked, and I know some people will think it's a nuts idea, was karaoke. It also got me interested in taking voice lessons and learning to sing, You've got to pick your karaoke bars carefully though, some are for drunks to get up, sing bad, and entertain by making fools of themselves, while others attract a lot of wannabe singers who have no other outlet. It's the ones with the wannabe singers that you want to go to. It might be a bit harder these days to find decent karaoke bars for this purpose since the fad sort of died out.

Besides, stage-fright can actually be sort of fun, it really gets the adrenaline flowing in a much safer environment than what usually gets the same internal chemicals moving. Pay attention to your dreams on nights around performances as you're working on stage-fright, they can be very revealing.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#19 2008-09-05 10:57:34

Dun Romin
Member
From: Holland
Registered: 2008-04-19
Posts: 136

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

lowonthetotem wrote:

Thanks again everyone.  I hope that I did not neglect to mention anyone specifically, as all the advice seems very good here in the light of day.

Your question smile and the answers, did me really a favor. I know it will not help you when you play in front of people, but be assured your not the only one suffering this 'desease'. But you know what......when I unwittingly sometimes let it seap through, I found a lot of times there comes a silent flow of reasurance from the audience. That feeling helps enormously to pass beyond myself. Just try to trust your audience more; they are worth it. smile And you too!


Tomorrow's wind only blows tomorrow. (Koji)

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#20 2008-09-05 11:37:23

Justin
Shihan/Maker
From: Japan
Registered: 2006-08-12
Posts: 540
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

radi0gnome wrote:

Justin wrote:

In your case, if you take the advice about playing a lot in public to get used to it, the street would seem the best place to me. If people don't like your playing, at least they are free to just walk away. That way you never have to feel guilty about forcing bad music on people who can't escape! (E.g. old people's home performance etc.)

From what I've seen of old people's homes and from judging lowonthetotem's example of his playing, I don't think he'd have anything to feel guilty about.

My quote abstracted like that sounds quite personal! I hope that's not how it came across. I think of it in terms of me playing, or anyone actually. I have sat through some really terrible performances here in Japan. I would not like to put people through that. Even great music can be unpleasant for people who do not appreciate the genre. What I really was pointing at was how you actually do not even need to let this consideration worry you in the situation of the street. That consideration ("Do they like it?") can cause nerves. So at least that contributing factor can be let go of in this setting (letting you take another step towards being able to play confidently) by realizing they are free to stay or go as they please.

Justin
http://senryushakuhachi.com/

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#21 2008-09-05 13:00:39

lowonthetotem
Member
From: Cape Coral, FL
Registered: 2008-04-05
Posts: 529
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

No worries, Justin.  I understand what you mean, and I think you make a good point.  Having people feel like they HAVE to sit through it is, indeed, a concern for me, although I may be assuming alot of politesse that could be lost these days.

Radiognome, I think a park will be good too.  I think the "street" is a relative term anyway.  I don't live in a big city.  It is more of a suburban sprawl here.  There are not many sidewalks where people are constantly coming and going, so a park would be the next best thing.


"Turn like a wheel inside a wheel."

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#22 2008-09-05 13:02:09

ima_hima
Member
From: Brooklyn, NY
Registered: 2005-11-16
Posts: 30

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Tairaku wrote:

lowonthetotem, do not fear. The folks you'd be playing for in the hospice will not be judgmental about your playing. Remember we play an instrument and music they have never heard before, so they have nothing to compare it to. They will just accept it for the soothing sound it is.

I'm not a pro, but I have to second this. The honkyoku especially has no meter, no melody and no harmony. When I play in public (which does make me nervous) I try very hard to remember that even if I play the piece wrong, or make some wacky sound, or even play with no sound, the audience has no idea I've messed up!

Also (and this is incredibly, incredibly important): play with confidence. I've had a couple of performances where I didn't play the piece correctly, but I played it confidently (keeping point one in mind), and audience members came up and told me how much they appreciated it, and how great I played. This in turn boosted my confidence, so I got a little positive feedback loop going. (And never, ever apologize to the audience after a mistake. You're going to want to, but don't!)

-Eric

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#23 2008-09-05 13:09:51

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Justin wrote:

My quote abstracted like that sounds quite personal! I hope that's not how it came across.

FWIW: I thought it was a great post on all points, and quite easy to understand.



    ima_hima wrote:

    (And never, ever apologize to the audience after a mistake. You're going to want to, but don't!)

So. Absolutely. Dead-on. Correct.

Last edited by edosan (2008-09-05 13:12:47)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#24 2008-09-05 13:45:49

philthefluter
Member
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: 2006-06-02
Posts: 190
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

Are you suggesting Gishin in nu5 that we check the venue out in case we need to do a runner?

I think it is important to do a 'dry run' several times and at least a few weeks before the performance. It is important to not stop and redo any phrases we messed up. We can then get a better idea of how well we are prepared and accept it. Nervousness often occurs because we do not set a realistic expectation of what our performance will be.

I also find myself getting the jitters a few hours before a performance. This gets the nerves out of my system.

I had a nerve wrecking experience last week during an outdoor performance in London when a sudden gust of wind lifted my music stand and music into the air. My improvisation skills stood to me and the audience got a performance to remember.


"The bamboo and Zen are One!" Kurosawa Kinko
http://www.shakuhachizen.com/
http://www.myspace.com/shakuhachizen

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#25 2008-09-05 15:09:30

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
Website

Re: Self-consciousness and its taxing effect on playing

nyokai wrote:

... I try to establish a personal rapport with members of the audience -- looking in somebody's eyes, playing a section of a piece for an individual out there, etc. This calms me, makes me feel like we're doing this together rather than a cold harsh me/them scenario.

Jon wrote:

My teacher and his teacher said to play to one person, one kokoro (heart) in the crowd. This works for me.

Very nice.

When Riley Lee was in L.A. last year I squeeked into his lesson schedule. So I barreled on in from Pomona only to find --to my 'horror'--  that the "private" lessons were being given in the spot-lighted center of this large room with  lots of people sitting on the sidelines watching the "private" lessons. I wasn't quite prepared for that.

During my lesson, Riley emphasized two things which were very helpful: 1. Instead of experiencing yourself as 'nervous,' what you do is re-frame the experience as being simply 'really excited.' Just a positive way of conceptualizing the butterflies in the stomach, the dilating eyeballs and the "deepened" breathing.  and 2. Play the piece all the way through without starting and stopping and generally mucking up the flow of the piece.

Peter Hill reinforced the latter advice to me during his recent visit to LA. To paraphrase him, he said not to do the 'musician thing' -- which is:  When practicing if you make a mistake don't stop and play the offending note or short passage over and over again. Rather play the piece all the way through. (Later I think it is okay to find the whole line of music with the problem note or passage and play the whole line of music through a few times to see if you can make the note or passage work within the context of that line.) Peter, correct me if I got this wrong, please.


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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