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#1 2008-09-19 08:30:43

Vevolis
Member
From: Toronto, ON
Registered: 2007-12-24
Posts: 175
Website

Shakuhachi in Synthesis

I picked up a Korg MicroX to piddle around on yesterday. It had a patch called "Old Shakuhachi". It was something to be desired. Out of curiosity, has anyone ever found a good synthesis patch for Shakuhachi? I'd imagine it would have to be a Kurzweil or some other sample based keyboard.

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#2 2008-09-19 09:33:22

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Shakuhachi in Synthesis

Anathema!

Put out your eyes, sir, and fill your ears with molten lead!

You are dead to me!

[just kidding, but only somewhat...]


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#3 2008-09-19 11:31:23

Derek Van Choice
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From: Lake San Marcos, CA
Registered: 2005-10-21
Posts: 99
Website

Re: Shakuhachi in Synthesis

Good one, Ed!  smile

Vevolis, Quantum Leap Ra is about as close as you'll get, synthetically/sampletically.  A spectacular plug-in for many other things, as well.

(edit:  You can get a good idea of the shakuhachi on the "Dreaming in Chinese" clip here:  http://www.eastwestsamples.com/details.php?cd_index=962

Last edited by Derek Van Choice (2008-09-19 13:08:43)

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#4 2008-09-19 12:23:05

Michael A. Firman
Member
From: Naperville, IL USA
Registered: 2006-08-28
Posts: 57
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Re: Shakuhachi in Synthesis

Vevolis wrote:

I picked up a Korg MicroX to piddle around on yesterday. It had a patch called "Old Shakuhachi". It was something to be desired. Out of curiosity, has anyone ever found a good synthesis patch for Shakuhachi? I'd imagine it would have to be a Kurzweil or some other sample based keyboard.

The Emulator samplers (E-mu systems) had very nice shakuhachi library patches.
The Yamaha VL series (which produced sounds from physical modeling) also had passible
shakuhachi patches. You have to remember that to get a good emulation from a synth keyboard
for any instrument you are trying to fake up, you need to play it idiomatically. In other words,
in the case of a shakuhachi, you must try to apply the appropriate bends and expression using
mod, pitch, breath, or other controller modulations.


Michael A. Firman
Naperville IL USA

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#5 2008-09-26 11:12:37

Sweep
Member
Registered: 2008-07-22
Posts: 12

Re: Shakuhachi in Synthesis

Michael's summarised the essential points in the above post. Really the bottom line is that however good any sample or set of samples may be, you need to be able to vary them spontaneously as you play if real music is to result.

I asked someone with Series II and Series III Emulators - he thought there was going to be a small library of samples, but in the end he only found one, and sent it to me to play using my own instruments. It's the classic shakuhachi sample as used by Tangerine Dream in one of their uninteresting 80s albums and subsequently by everyone else. It's a good sound but naturally limited. I cut it in half so I could use the second half in a different way from the distinctive first part, but even so its use was limited. Good for a bit of flavour in a piece, but that's all.

In principle you could use multi-sampling to put several different passages on a keyboard and play a piece that way, and you'd get closer to `real' shakuhachi music, but it would always be a second-rate imitation. I've played some wind instruments successfully from a keyboard - notably various saxophones - and a lot can be done if you use the performance controls sensitively (and being steeped in jazz from a formative age helps as well). But everything that makes the shakuhachi so special makes good keyboard imitation unlikely, as has already been recognised.

Where sampling shakuhachi would score, though, is in broadening the range of the instrument by playing things that aren't possible on a normal shakuhachi - notes outside the usual range and so on. There have been a few conversations on this site about longer than usual instruments, and of course it's noted that beyond a certain length the instrument is going to be physically impossible to play. Sensitive use of sampling could be used to overcome that problem, either by playing short passages from the sampler or by blending sampler notes with performance on an actual shakuhachi. Very deep notes could be added from the keyboard while the shakuhachi player pauses, for example. Another use would be playing things that are in shakuhachi sound territory but without trying to imitate the instrument. That's a dangerous area because it's too easy to just sound like a bad imitation rather than a shakuhachi-like alternative instrument. Altering the sound and making something that's like an electric shakuhachi is one way to avoid that pitfall. I've made some good electric reeds with the Roland V-Synth, and electric shakuhachi might be an interesting option to explore.

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