Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

indigo · 2008-10-20 18:44:22

I wonder if any body has a simple mechanical explanation of the edge, airstream, embouchure relationships? When we open the distance of our embouchure from the edge the tone goes sharp or kari and when we close the distance between the embouchure and the edge we get a flatter tone or meri.

With the other 5 holes closing the hole partially or fully lowers the pitch by lengthning the air column.

Therefore, intuitively thinking, moving ones embasure away from the edge might lengthen the the air column therefore making the note flatter. As we all know, this is not the case.

This is what Nelson Zink states:

"Imagine that the hole got smaller and smaller until it finally closed (ignoring for the moment that the flute is driven by air passing over or through the hole). Closing the end of a tube cuts the frequency (pitch) in half. So smaller hole is lower pitch. Something else happens with a closed tube, the even numbered harmonics drop to zero and vanish. So the shakuhachi is somewhere between an open and closed tube and by varying the degree of opening (the size of the utaguchi hole) the sonic and acoustic qualities of the flute are altered. Meri closes the hole thereby lowering the pitch and reducing the intensity of the 2nd, 4th, (etc.) harmonics. In particular, reducing the second harmonic makes the tone sound thin. Kari opens the hole, thereby raising the pitch and boosts the even numbered harmonics for a richer, fatter sound--thus a fuller Ro."

The above is interesting to me but I cannot ignore the " air passing over or through the hole" as a flute player. The rest is a description of what happens but not "why???" so sorry I mean "how???"

I think that a rudimentary understanding of the fluid dynamics of the situation might help our playing and embouchure development. Visualizing the process as we play might be interesting.

Indigo

Last edited by indigo (2008-10-22 17:04:13)

lossafunk · 2008-10-20 22:29:55

I'm fond of quoting Nelson Zinc, when it fits a particular question. This is one it fit well. Why Probably isn't the question you want to to ask. To quote Mr. Zinc "a why question doesn't lead to any information that is particularly useful. 'how' on the other hand lets you begin to know how something proceeds, it's structure and processes, and that information can be acted upon. Ultimately a 'why' question can only be answered by the word 'because' which leads to another 'why' and so on. "Why is a question of religion, 'how' is a question of science, or at least the type of questioning science is based on." (nelson zinc The Structure Of Delight)
so is your question about understanding the meaning of what is happening or understanding the action? and to answer as to how, as far as I can understand it's not as much about the tube or length of air stream as much as about the air's speed within that space, be it a tube or otherwise.

Ps. thanks, I've been waiting so long to be able to quote that part of nelson's book. In the years since I read it my friends "talk" on eggshells around me. it not my fault it's just so easy to quote.

Last edited by lossafunk (2008-10-20 22:32:21)

indigo · 2008-10-20 22:51:10

"how" as in a question of science, physicality, a model of how the airstream is excited by the edge to create vibration of the air column, therefore sound

and on to a model of the meri kari dynamic of the embouchure utaguchi relationship etc.

how does it work? Like Bernouli's principle relative to sailboats or airplane wings describes simply how a sail or airplane wing works by creating high and low pressure etc.

indigo

Last edited by indigo (2008-10-22 17:05:06)

lossafunk · 2008-10-20 23:18:26

so you want to learn the acoustics of a wind instrument. Right? try this site

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/fluteacoustics.html

the same basic principles apply.

YuccaBruce · 2008-10-22 12:05:00

Embouchure

indigo · 2008-10-22 17:12:45

thankyou lossafunk for the very informative link above

now I am seriously on the beginning of a new learning curve with the terminology and mathamatics of acoustics etc.

seems that impedence is the term that begs for a detailed understanding

facinating stuff

thanks also YuccaBruce for the spelling correction this time I might not forget!

embouchure

Mujitsu · 2008-10-22 19:41:42

indigo wrote:
facinating stuff

Fascinating stuff indeed! Thanks for the references and link.

In addition, I would argue that the best shakuhachi are a result of a perfect marriage of a thorough scientific understanding along with a heightened sense of "feel." In my opinion, the real magic occurs when these two forces meet. Mysterious stuff.

Ken

lossafunk · 2008-10-23 09:01:47

just keep ion mind when using the info from the link, it's talking about a silver flute, which is smooth inside. shakuhachi( jinashi, jiari) are not. the imperfections are what give shakuhachi their unique sound. the bore of a silver flute is a constant, where as a shakuhachi, is not a constant. unless you have a molded bore, like monty's flutes.

edosan · 2008-10-23 11:11:14

lossafunk wrote:
just keep ion mind when using the info from the link, it's talking about a silver flute, which is smooth inside. shakuhachi( jinashi, jiari) are not. the imperfections are what give shakuhachi their unique sound. the bore of a silver flute is a constant, where as a shakuhachi, is not a constant. unless you have a molded bore, like monty's flutes.

Actually, the molded bores of Monty's flutes are not a 'constant', either, but based on existing jiari flutes of various lengths, each with their own particular profiles and perturbations.

lossafunk · 2008-10-23 11:49:55

Thanks for the correction.

edosan · 2008-10-23 15:00:00

lossafunk wrote:
Thanks for the correction.

http://www.shakuhachi.com/Q-PCBStory.html:

In case you want to know some more detail about how Monty does it. Quite involved, and deucedly clever.

Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

#1 2008-10-20 18:44:22

mechanics, fluid dynamics, physical explanation of utaguchi meri kari

#2 2008-10-20 22:29:55

Re: mechanics, fluid dynamics, physical explanation of utaguchi meri kari

#3 2008-10-20 22:51:10

Re: mechanics, fluid dynamics, physical explanation of utaguchi meri kari

#4 2008-10-20 23:18:26

Re: mechanics, fluid dynamics, physical explanation of utaguchi meri kari

#5 2008-10-22 12:05:00

Re: mechanics, fluid dynamics, physical explanation of utaguchi meri kari

#6 2008-10-22 17:12:45

Re: mechanics, fluid dynamics, physical explanation of utaguchi meri kari

#7 2008-10-22 19:41:42

Re: mechanics, fluid dynamics, physical explanation of utaguchi meri kari

indigo wrote:

#8 2008-10-23 09:01:47

Re: mechanics, fluid dynamics, physical explanation of utaguchi meri kari

#9 2008-10-23 11:11:14

Re: mechanics, fluid dynamics, physical explanation of utaguchi meri kari

lossafunk wrote:

#10 2008-10-23 11:49:55

Re: mechanics, fluid dynamics, physical explanation of utaguchi meri kari

#11 2008-10-23 15:00:00

Re: mechanics, fluid dynamics, physical explanation of utaguchi meri kari

lossafunk wrote:

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