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#1 2006-03-14 04:42:41

Alex
Member
From: Barcelona - Spain
Registered: 2005-10-17
Posts: 138

Kinko and Tozan

Hola a todos,

I have this situation and I would like to ask people here about it. See, I started Shakuhachi about a year ago. I was lucky to be able to attend some lessons while I stayed in London and then I continued practicing when I came back to Spain. I play Kinko, I know how to read the notation and I think I'm making a good progress (thanks in great part to this forum!). I thought Kinko was going to be my ryu as I started with it and it's the only music I've listened to, but recently something happened that seems to be about to change everything.

Next April I'm going to Japan for a couple of weeks, I will be spending most of the time in my wife's city, Ako (Hyogo prefecture) and as some people might now, Hyogo is part of the Kansai area where the Tozan Ryu is much more extended. I asked my wife to try to find me a teacher and apparently her mother has a friend, who lives in the same city, whose husband plays Shakuhachi; but he plays Tozan. At first I was disspointed, but then I thought that I can sure learn a lot from this person, that learning to make a beautiful sound, which is what I really persue with my playing, must be equal to both Kinko and Tozan so why not being greatful for such opportunity!

Now, my question is about the difference in actual playing between Kinko and Tozan. I know notation is different, and I read that the notes in Kinko are played about a quater off from Kinko, is this true? I aslo read that the fingerings are different, but which fingerings? I guess a tsu is F always, no? I know about the differences in flutes but I aslo heard that some Tozan players play with Kinko flutes. Well, in so many words I want to know which the differences are so I can be somehow prepared for the change. This person doesn't speak any english (less so Spanish) and my Japanese is really limited, so any previous understanding of the differences I think would be of great help.

Thank you all for your time and knowledge

Alex


"An artist has got to be careful never really to arrive at a place where he thinks he's "at" somewhere. You always have to realise that you are constantly in the state of becoming. And as long as you can stay in that realm, you'll sort of be all right"
Bob Dylan

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#2 2006-03-14 10:40:54

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Kinko and Tozan

If you are going to be in the Kansai you could study with Kurahashi Yoshio. Excellent teacher, speaks good English. He plays Kinko, Jin Nyodo and Tozan. His dojo is in Kyoto.

The notation is somewhat similar, anyway it's easier to go from Kinko to Tozan than from Kinko to Western notation.

Musically Tozan is a more modern form of music with pitch relationships more similar to Western music. Most of the professional Kinko players have at least a cursory knowledge of Tozan notation and music. Some play both equally well.

If you are studying for two weeks there can be no harm in studying Tozan even if you are primarily a Kinko player.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#3 2006-03-14 17:09:31

Bogert
Member
From: Amagasaki-shi, Hyogo-ken
Registered: 2005-12-05
Posts: 203

Re: Kinko and Tozan

Hello,
   Brain, do you have to setup lessons ahead of time with Yoshio sensei?  I'm planning on going to Kyoto for about 2-1/2 months in the fall and am still looking around for a teacher.  If you do have to setup before hand how does one contact him? Thanks.
                                                             Chris


理趣経百字の偈
菩薩勝慧者 乃至尽生死 恒作衆生利 而不趣涅槃 般若及方便 智度悉加持 諸法及諸有    一切皆清浄 欲等調世間 令得浄除故 
有頂及悪趣 調伏尽諸有 如蓮体本染 不為垢所染    諸欲性亦然 不染利群生 大欲得清浄 大安楽富饒 三界得自在 能作堅固利

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#4 2006-03-14 23:28:01

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Kinko and Tozan

mujuan@nifty.com

He is one of the best teachers out there.

Last I heard you can pay a certain monthly amount and take as many lessons as you want.

Tell him I sent you!


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#5 2006-03-15 22:05:35

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: Kinko and Tozan

Good luck with your travel planning.  Ako is in Kansai, but just barely.  I think it's about 120-130 kilometres from Kyoto by train -- if you take the Shinkansen ("bullet train") you can probably get there in an hour and a half or so but the Shinkansen from Ako to Kyoto may cost you the yen equivalent of $100 or so one way; if you're going to be doing a lot of train travel you'll probably want to check on special train passes for short term visitors; that way you'll be able to get around the country at a cheaper rate.  As Brian mentioned, the notation is not that different for Tozan and Kinko.  A tsu is a tsu in both notations and both notations use the ro, tsu, re, chi, and hi symbols but but Tozan uses a set of identical but smaller symbols for the meri notes and has a few symbols that Kinko doesn't generally use (that also may depend on the branch of Kinko!); it's useful to know both Kinko and Tozan notations.   The pieces one usually learns in the two schools are quite different; Tozan pieces were written at a later time; there are no koten honkyoku in the Tozan repertoire but they have their own "honkyoku" composed by Nakao Tozan.  Both groups often play the same gaikyoku pieces along with koto and shamisen, but generally speaking, Japanese Tozan players are more well acquainted with playing modern pieces.

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#6 2006-03-19 22:28:54

Bogert
Member
From: Amagasaki-shi, Hyogo-ken
Registered: 2005-12-05
Posts: 203

Re: Kinko and Tozan

Thanks for Kurahashi Yoshio 先生's e-mail Brian.  He says hello.  It looks like I'll be studying with him in the fall.  I'm very excited.


理趣経百字の偈
菩薩勝慧者 乃至尽生死 恒作衆生利 而不趣涅槃 般若及方便 智度悉加持 諸法及諸有    一切皆清浄 欲等調世間 令得浄除故 
有頂及悪趣 調伏尽諸有 如蓮体本染 不為垢所染    諸欲性亦然 不染利群生 大欲得清浄 大安楽富饒 三界得自在 能作堅固利

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#7 2006-03-19 22:46:57

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Kinko and Tozan

Bogert wrote:

Thanks for Kurahashi Yoshio ??'s e-mail Brian.  He says hello.  It looks like I'll be studying with him in the fall.  I'm very excited.

You will enjoy it. He's a funny guy. He's a well rounded shakuhachi person.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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