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#1 2006-04-08 15:12:02

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Crack Psychology

A few vintage shakuhachi repair jobs in the shop bring up the subject of
crack repair. This subject has been covered in the past. Periodically, it's good
to repeat some important principles.

When a crack appears, it's tempting to fill the gap immediately with glue or urushi.
Fortunately, there is no need to panic. Even the widest of splits can
easily be closed completely with humidity. A humid box is ideal, or
the flute can simply be wrapped in a damp towel, then placed in a
plastic bag and left overnight. This works so well that sometimes the
crack line is invisible in the morning. Then, thin glue or urushi can be
applied to the line and wiped clean. Follow with binding. Or, eliminate
the glue/urushi step and apply binding only.

Many of us stress unnecessarily about cracks. Cracks are 'badges of
honor' which reveal history. If repaired efficiently, they should not
have any influence on the life of a flute.

One less thing to worry about!

Ken

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#2 2006-04-08 15:43:48

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

Mujitsu wrote:

Many of us stress unnecessarily about cracks. Cracks are 'badges of
honor' which reveal history. If repaired efficiently, they should not
have any influence on the life of a flute.

One less thing to worry about!

Ken

Praise the Shakuhachi Gods that you said this Ken. Unfortunately there are numerous neurotic shakuhachists who think their flutes should never and will never crack. Or who refuse to play one that has. The wrath of the Bamboo Spirits will be upon them and their descendants.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#3 2006-04-11 11:04:44

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

I just got my 2.4 back.
Ken fix it.
it was cracked so bad. I got scared.
Now it looks even better than before. And it sounds beautifull.
Thanks ken

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#4 2006-04-12 15:43:23

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

Regarding your comment on soaking the bamboo overnight Ken, I recently talked with a craftsperson who makes bamboo fencing and his comment was that the bamboo suffers more from sinlight than rain.

Kel.


Kia Kaha !

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#5 2006-04-13 03:38:44

John Roff
Member
From: South Africa
Registered: 2005-10-21
Posts: 50

Re: Crack Psychology

Karmajampa wrote:

Regarding your comment on soaking the bamboo overnight Ken, I recently talked with a craftsperson who makes bamboo fencing and his comment was that the bamboo suffers more from sinlight than rain.

Kel.

Hi Kel

Sinlight...? Is that when evil museum lamps shine on a shakuhachi that should be played instead of wasting away under artifcial light...?

Just kidding

John


'Concepts create idols; only wonder grasps anything.' - Gregory of Nyssa

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#6 2007-03-26 10:04:51

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

Mujitsu wrote:

A humid box is ideal, or
the flute can simply be wrapped in a damp towel, then placed in a
plastic bag and left overnight. This works so well that sometimes the
crack line is invisible in the morning. Then, thin glue or urushi can be
applied to the line and wiped clean. Follow with binding. Or, eliminate
the glue/urushi step and apply binding only.

OK, so I wrapped it in a damp towel, the cracks became invisible and I bound it. The problem is that after it dried again the cracks were visible, that didn't bother me, but it was obviously leaking again. So I repeated the process adding even more bindings. It played great for a while, even better than the first humidifying and binding, but now it's leaking again (but not as bad). There's no room left to put more bindings on either. I was thinking of oiling the inside to help seal the leaks. Is this a bad idea? Is there another way? Is the thin glue you mention to seal leaks?

The first cracked shakuhachi I fixed, I forced the crack closed with hose clamps and used the gel kind of superglue. Then I kept applying the glue until any leaks disappeared. I'd hate to do that again on this flute even though it's not as nice of a flute.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#7 2007-03-26 10:30:59

costademaria
Member
From: spain, denia
Registered: 2006-12-11
Posts: 110
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

hi,i also am interested of the how to do it/properly/  cause with the one i bought from ebay/the other thread/ i had the same problems. i put it into damp cloth and then binded it next day with 15times 30lb. just after an hour it opened. i said ok,may be i can not bind properly and binded it over 100 times with all my force,and a am very strong. it dried and opened again. this ugly big trunk of a bamboo. so i decided to win and to win without bindings. i again put it in cloth and in the morning rapidly binded all the shakuhachi with a telephone line/steel inside the cable/. then at the point of loosing patience i put it right infront of the blowing el.radiator . it couldnt stretch the steell so it dried without opening. as i dont like bindings rapidly took of the wire and tung oiled it with polymer. tung oil. no problem now. looks laquiered but i plan to finish it with waterbase poliurethane/non toxic/. even now its water proof from inside and outside and sits right over the radiator. this works for me but how to do it properly if i repair for sb else? may be the same way as i did it but without the laquier and with even stronger line


"how dear sir did you cross the flood?" "by not halting,friend,and by not straining i crossed the flood."
"but how is it,dear sir,that by not halting and by not straining you crossed the flood?"
"when i came to a standstill,friend,then i sank,but when i struggled,then i got swept away.it is in this way by not halting and by not straining i crossed the flood"

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#8 2007-03-26 10:43:31

Kabato
Member
From: New York City
Registered: 2007-02-26
Posts: 28

Re: Crack Psychology

This may not be the solution but I very recently had an experience that may be helpful to you. I had a really crappy piece of bamboo I was stubbornly trying to make something resembling a shakuhachi. The bamboo was not only from a dead culm that had not cured properly, but before I decided to make a flute out of it it was sitting in an air conditioned room for months with no humidity or protection. The whole piece was basically destroyed, and even when I wrapped it in a towel and put it in a bag overnight then bound it with 60lb monofilament the huge cracks would open up again and become unplayable. Yesterday I picked it up (I had left it out as a sort of reminder to try again someday) and was determined not to let it go to waste and decided to try a new set of bindings one last time. As I was binding it I noticed something I had never noticed before: As I was putting a binding over one of the larger cracks I noticed how tight I had to bind to actually close the crack. I could actually see that this binding was doing the job where the other bindings had failed. I was so happy at this realization that I took off all the old bindings and put on something like 20 new, really really tight ones (It's a 2.6 piece, lots of room to cover). The flute now plays perfectly (or rather it plays as well as one would expect from such an awfully treated piece of bamboo) and it's been over a week since I bound it.

The moral of the story is you need to bind really, really tight. If you don't see the crack being pulled closed you bind, it won't be held closed when the flute dries. Hope this helps, good luck.


If you say that you do not need to fan yourself because the nature of wind is permanent and you can have wind without fanning, you will understand neither permanence nor the nature of wind. The nature of wind is permanent; because of that, the wind of the buddha's house brings for the gold of the earth and makes fragrant the cream of the long river.

-Eihei Dogen, Genjokoan

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#9 2007-03-26 10:50:32

costademaria
Member
From: spain, denia
Registered: 2006-12-11
Posts: 110
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

thanks for the realization,cause this is a realization also for me.


"how dear sir did you cross the flood?" "by not halting,friend,and by not straining i crossed the flood."
"but how is it,dear sir,that by not halting and by not straining you crossed the flood?"
"when i came to a standstill,friend,then i sank,but when i struggled,then i got swept away.it is in this way by not halting and by not straining i crossed the flood"

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#10 2007-03-26 10:54:57

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

Kabato wrote:

The moral of the story is you need to bind really, really tight. If you don't see the crack being pulled closed you bind, it won't be held closed when the flute dries. Hope this helps, good luck.

Hmm... I can't use the crack being pulled shut as a gauge on this one because when it's humidified the cracks close. It could be that the bindings aren't tight enough, but I put quite a bit of force on them when put them on. I even broke the 50 pound fishing line once during the process. I have some heavier line that I used on the other flute, but it's a wierd neon color.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#11 2007-03-26 11:00:13

costademaria
Member
From: spain, denia
Registered: 2006-12-11
Posts: 110
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

thats why after the  steel phone line i laquiered the bore and the outside

ps. and thats why from now on i will use exactly the same product what Perry and the others use even if a have to wait 2 weeks to come to sapin

Last edited by costademaria (2007-03-26 11:02:52)


"how dear sir did you cross the flood?" "by not halting,friend,and by not straining i crossed the flood."
"but how is it,dear sir,that by not halting and by not straining you crossed the flood?"
"when i came to a standstill,friend,then i sank,but when i struggled,then i got swept away.it is in this way by not halting and by not straining i crossed the flood"

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#12 2007-03-26 11:04:15

Kabato
Member
From: New York City
Registered: 2007-02-26
Posts: 28

Re: Crack Psychology

I probably waited a half hour or so during which the flute just sat out, so I could see exactly which big cracks were opening up again. It could also be the number of really tight bindings I put on there, maybe for some really long cracks you just need many bindings.


If you say that you do not need to fan yourself because the nature of wind is permanent and you can have wind without fanning, you will understand neither permanence nor the nature of wind. The nature of wind is permanent; because of that, the wind of the buddha's house brings for the gold of the earth and makes fragrant the cream of the long river.

-Eihei Dogen, Genjokoan

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#13 2007-03-30 10:19:34

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

radi0gnome wrote:

The problem is that after it dried again the cracks were visible, that didn't bother me, but it was obviously leaking again.

Yep, here I am responding to my own post again, but I found where the leaks were coming from. I oiled the inside of the flute with grapeseed oil by putting the end into a bowl of oil, closing the holes with my fingers and then sucking the oil up to the top. When I did this I could hear the bubbling of the oil while it was being drawn up into the flute. It's not supposed to do that, that was because of the leaks. It was then, because I kind of felt it under my fingers, that I realized the leaks were because of the cracks near the holes letting the air through. It's not that the cracks were all the way through the bamboo wall, but just that they were keeping my fingers from being able to seal the holes. So a put a little bit of superglue on the flute walls where the cracks reached the holes so that my fingers would be able to seal the holes. All is well now, not a great flute, but not bad, and a worthwhile learning experience.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#14 2007-03-30 11:30:05

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

A possible inconvenience of the rag/bag method is that it soaks the flute. If you are going to use glue, then it may not work as well on wet bamboo. I prefer the humid box method because it doesn't soak the bamboo.

Some don't like the idea of adding super glue. Some use it every time. Sometimes, I'll use it only if tight binding alone doesn't keep the crack closed. If you want to use it before binding, just run it all along the closed crack. It will soak in immediately. Wipe quickly with an acetone soaked rag.

I like to use water to check for leaks because it quickly dries. I would imagine that oil might interfere with glue. But, if it works, it works!

Ken

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#15 2007-03-30 20:33:41

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

Thanks for the tips Ken. I tried to avoid the glue, but in this case with the surface cracks running into the finger holes I couldn't think of any other solution. Binding can get cracks that go all the way to the bore to close, but doesn't seem to help much on surface cracks.

Water does sound like a better way to check for leaks, but it wasn't my intention to locate the leaks with the oil. With my inexperience the oil was just my attempt to maybe seal some leaks I couldn't find and didn't know how to check for. I waited a couple days for it to dry before applying the glue.

Live and learn I guess. Even though I didn't do any irrepairable damage on this particular flute (yet, it still could use some work, but I'll be careful), I still wish I didn't take superglue and hose clamps to that first cracked jiari I purchased. It's fixed it and it plays well, but it could've been done so much more elegantly.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#16 2007-04-16 14:32:16

shinkage ryu
Member
From: Virginia
Registered: 2007-04-11
Posts: 19

Re: Crack Psychology

Put a humidified sponge and the flute in a sealed container and boom!  No more cracks.  As long as the environment is humid and not to cold, you SHOULD be able to avoid the cracking altogether.  I have been told that it is bad to use superglue to seal a crack because if the crack opens up again, it could be irrepairable.  Is this true?


“What sort of person are you, really, inside and what lies concealed there?”—the shakuhachi will undoubtedly supply the answer"
       
              (taken from: "Take No Kokoro" by by Kurahashi Yodo Sensei)

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#17 2007-05-10 01:21:37

earthspiritflutes
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2007-05-07
Posts: 7
Website

Re: Crack Psychology

edit :I did find info within the forum about heat treating after posting this!




I have never used this process nor do I make bamboo flutes (yet!)

I know several Native American flute makers that use bamboo. They heat treat it with open flame after 3 weeks of harvesting, then after 6 months of drying it, heat treated again. After this it is ready to make flutes. From what I have been told the heat treating releases stress in the bamboo that causes cracking. The only binding that I have seen used is at the mouthpiece and end of the flute. One flute maker claims to have perfected this process and does not have cracking in his flutes. I also know that bamboo fishing rod makers heat treat it to prevent warping and cracking

As far as Shakuhachi making goes I do not know the process, but has anyone tried this method. I am just throwing some information out there as food for thought.

Last edited by earthspiritflutes (2007-05-10 02:45:17)

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