Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

I think those values for pitch were already with me playing kari as much as I could to get the pitch close. I'm not a very good player, and I had to partially uncover some holes to play in tune.


Cutting more off the bottom is not going to change anything but ro.

I think I'll try enlarging the holes.. they're realistically closer to 9.5mm now and I have fairly large fingers, so maybe 11mm will be OK.

Kan seems fine. The diameter is not that large - 3/4" ID.

Took 3 mm off the end and enlarged all the holes... it's closer now. Not perfect, but probably reasonably in tune with itself (and with slightly opening the next hole, in tune with Western instruments).

evan kubota wrote:

Some more questions: when I make a 1.8 in bamboo this weekend, what would be a general order? I'm thinking of:

cutting roughly to length (maybe 550mm, to leave some extra)
removing the nodes
making the utaguchi
adjusting length as necessary to reach 'D'

Here's the question - if it blows D with no holes drilled, will that pitch change as the other holes are added? If so, how can I estimate how much higher/lower to make it?

A lot of makers don't worry about matching concert pitch, especially with jinashi flutes. They strive to get it to play in tune with itself, but not necessarily tune it to 440. That takes away one thing for you to worry about.

I think this is generally the way Perry Yung proceeds (note that we are assuming bamboo here; something with a thicker wall than most PVC):

1. Get the Ro where you want it.

2. Use a formula to get approximate hole spacing (there are plenty around, mostly using percentages of length--looks like Navaching,com, which had heaps of info on this, is no longer extant--but Mujitsu has a very useful .pdf here). Of course, bore diameter will affect this formula somewhat, but as long as the bore diameter is not far off 2 cm, you will be close.

3. Make the first hole, but make it small (say 5-6mm) and enlarge it--towards the blowing edge to make it sharper, towards the bell end to make it flatter. It's also possible to affect the pitch by tapering or angling the hole as it goes into the bore--if the hole as it enters the bore is closer to the bell end than where it starts in at the surface, the pitch will be flatter than if you drilled the hole perpendicularly into the bore. This is a tricky procedure, though, and requires experience to pull off.

4. Once you get the first hole in tune with the bell tone (the Ro), proceed to the next hole, repeating this procedure.

This is more tedious than just drilling a 10-11mm hole and being done with it, but it gives you considerable latitude.

Also, be sure to read this (scroll down to the April 6, 2005 entry--hell, read the whole blog, it's worth it...) as well.

Perry made a 2.8 (G) for me, and was able to determine a very close approximation of the hole spacing for me before he cut any of them. This allowed me (he was in Japan at the time, I was in Colorado) to build a dowel mock-up of the flute, placing the 'holes' (colored sticky 10mm circles) along the shaft according to his measurements. I even found a dowel that was almost identical in diameter to the culm he bought for the flute. I could then play around with the hole offset to get the best placement for my hands. I sent him the measurements I came up with, plus some pics of the mock-up with holes marked, and he came up with the rest, even angling the Chi hole (#3) in order to move it closer to the Ri hole (4) to accommodate my hands. The tuning is on the money (thanks Perry!).

If things get a bit out of control, and you need to make the hole a bit bigger than 'normal' to get it in tune, all is not lost if you ovalize the hole somewhat so the axis of the oval is parallel to the bone in your playing finger.

Capice?

Last edited by edosan (2006-05-06 02:44:10)

edosan wrote:

looks like Navaching,com, which had heaps of info on this, is no longer extant

It seems to be available now:

http://www.navaching.com/shaku/shakuindex.html

nyokai wrote:

If a person is not a very good player, how can he or she know whether the flute itself is in tune? ... So aren't some of these adjustments to the flute itself meaningless unless you check out the pitch with an experienced player who has been properly trained in producing accurate pitch?

Phil, I have a keen interest in what you're saying because I'm a beginner player and beginner maker.

What are your thoughts on the feasibility of a beginner making in-tune flutes primarily for himself?  I think making personal flutes to play in tune is a reasonable goal for a beginner because by ear or by comparison to teacher or recording or tuner, even a beginner should be able to recognize "in-tune" when he plays his own flute.  The end product being, in this case, the Flute+Player(+Piece+Listener), not an absolute Flute.

A possibility would be, I guess... doing my development more harm than good by making flutes that only play in tune with a weak, flat embouchure... 

-Darren.

As another player who does not have access to a teacher other than CDs and books, how would I know if it is the shakuhachi or me if I am playing flat. I can play "dead on D" with the Yuu and a David Brown 1.8, but not with an advanced student 1.8 from Monty. So, is it me or the shakuhachi?

nyokai wrote:

I would highly doubt that an out of tune student flute got out of Monty's workshop alive.

I would concur with Nyokai on that: Even the lowliest student models of Monty's flutes are in tune--in both the absolute and 'in tune with itself' sense, and this has been true for as far back as at least ten years in my experience.

I certainly never intended to imply that Monty Levenson does not make good shakuhachi. If I can ever manage to scrape the money together I plan to buy a rootend cast bore 1.8 from him. Both the cast bore student 1.8s I have owned were impeccably tuned...they just played a bit flat for me.

I am just a rank beginner with very little overall musical talent, but I do not think it is unreasonable to assume that if I can consistently blow Otsu Ro closer to D on two shakuhachi than I can on another that the difference might be in the shakuhachi, not me. Is it possible that shakuhachi made by different makers have different blowing requirements even if all of them are superb shakuhachi...ie., some take gentler breath while others take stronger breath?

Tairaku, thank you for your kind offer. Are you coming to Austin to play?

I have already contacted Stan Richardson about lessons. I am currently using his CD lesson set for self-study. If he follows through on his plan to teach in Austin once a month, I will be taking regular face-to-face lessons...something I am certain I desperately need. If not, I will be driving to Dallas several times every summer for lessons when I am not working 50+ hours a week as a Special Ed teacher.

Hi Evan,

evan kubota wrote:

True, but unfortunately there aren't any experienced players that I know of in my area (north Florida). I'm a fairly competent guitarist so I do have a decent ear, and even if my playing tends to be flat I'd still like to be able to play in tune on the flute

Much kudos to you and Darren for making flutes.

If you need a flute to play in pitch with fixed-pitch intruments at this moment, then my suggestion is to make one that works in pitch with your level of playing. If following formulas do not give you the results you need, then change them to suit your abilities.

evan kubota wrote:

- if I eventually develop to the point where I realize the flute was made sharper than necessary,I guess I can make another one more suited to my abilities at that point or simply play it on its own terms.

You're at that realization now but your playing technique is not up to the level of your approach for making. As others have said, it takes years to be able to play in pitch on a standardized flute and I agree. You may never get here and that's OK. That's why I suggest you make a flute that works for you now. Knowing that you are playing sharp flutes to be in pitch will help you develope the strength and emboucher required for good shakuhachi technique.

Every maker can only make the flute play was well as he or she can play.  This is why I consider my shakuhachi lessons as important as my study of flutemaking.

Happy drilling,
Perry