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#1 2009-12-04 16:25:12

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Okuda Box Set Update

Hello all,

This is just a brief update to those who have expressed interest in the creation of an Okuda Box set, covering all 60 of his pieces.  The goal is to put together an attractive, well done set of recordings, with liner notes and scores.

We will be exploring different avenues for funding, but this is very much a grass roots affair and success or failure may well rest upon private donations from those who wish to see this project go forward.  If the shakuhachi community pulls together (as I'm confident it can), then this could work out.  To this end, Ken will be organzing a donation fund.  Individual donations will be kept private and confidential.  You will also recieve documentation for any donations you make, so if the project does not work out then you can be confident that you will be refunded without any worries or hassle.

More details will come soon.  I just wanted to give everyone a heads up and to let you all know that the Okuda Box Set, while still in its early planning stages, is something that may soon become real.

Lorka

Last edited by Lorka (2009-12-04 16:26:33)


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#2 2009-12-04 17:42:30

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Re: Okuda Box Set Update

One way for people to recoup their "investment" is to pay everyone in CD's. Suppose we manufacture 1000 sets. Give Okuda a certain number for his artistry and then split the rest up pro rata between the investors.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#3 2009-12-04 20:21:27

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

More details will come soon. In the meantime, if anyone would like to donate to the Okuda Box Set Fund by PayPal or Credit Card, you may do so here:

OKUDA BOX SET FUND

As the project evolves, this link will be posted from time to time.

Many thanks,

Ken

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#4 2009-12-04 21:16:07

Matt Lyon
Member
From: North Eastern Oregon
Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 92

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Thanks Ken,

How long do you think you will take donations for? It will let me know how long I can spread it out over.

Matt

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#5 2009-12-04 21:21:59

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Mujitsu wrote:

More details will come soon. In the meantime, if anyone would like to donate to the Okuda Box Set Fund by PayPal or Credit Card, you may do so here:

OKUDA BOX SET FUND

Many thanks,

Ken

This may be impractical/unrealistic at this point, but it would probably be helpful to come up with some sort of rough budget for this project, that
way we'll have an idea of how many people need to kick in $XX.xx to get the job done. Just a way of getting a feel for the figures...


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#6 2009-12-04 21:47:51

jamesnyman
Member
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2005-10-23
Posts: 162

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

I agree with Edosan. I am willing to donate funds to the project, but it would be helpful to get some estimate of the total cost. Would my $100 be 1/10th, 1/100th or 1/1000th of the cost?


"The means are the ends in the making."  Mohandas K. Ghandi

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#7 2009-12-04 22:07:52

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

jamesnyman wrote:

I agree with Edosan. I am willing to donate funds to the project, but it would be helpful to get some estimate of the total cost. Would my $100 be 1/10th, 1/100th or 1/1000th of the cost?

We'd need to know certain details. The hard costs and then the in-kind stuff.

Hard costs would be printing the CD's, studio time (if we don't get someone to record it for free). Travel expenses, lodging or any other thing that takes actual $$$$$$$$$$$.

In kind would be any services people donate.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#8 2009-12-04 22:18:52

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Hi Ed, Brian, and James,

You are quite right in suggesting concrete and measurable goals with this.  Once we have a better clue as to how much the whole thing would run then it would be incorporated into the general announcement that Ken will make.  I'm of the feeling that more specific, concrete details will be a good thing, and will help to get this thing moving.


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#9 2009-12-04 22:49:02

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

If we are really set on using the CD format we need to determine how many CD's will hold the 60 pieces. 74 minutes on a CD. It costs about $1 per CD to manufacture. Maybe Kiku would have a fair idea how many hours of material it would be. Of course if we just sold subscriptions and did it as a download we could avoid those manufacturing costs.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#10 2009-12-04 22:54:23

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

I think having it only as a download would be less desirable.  It would nice to have an attractive CD, with liner notes, ets.  Perhaps we could try to have the best of both worlds and make it also downloadable, or downloadable as an alternative to CD purchase.  This way people can select whichever package they prefer.  Options are a good thing (within reason).


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#11 2009-12-04 23:43:53

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Matt Lyon wrote:

Thanks Ken,

How long do you think you will take donations for? It will let me know how long I can spread it out over.

Matt

As long as I'm asked to. It's best to stay in touch with Lorka and Kiku for the latest.

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#12 2009-12-04 23:53:37

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Lorka wrote:

I think having it only as a download would be less desirable.  It would nice to have an attractive CD, with liner notes, ets.  Perhaps we could try to have the best of both worlds and make it also downloadable, or downloadable as an alternative to CD purchase.  This way people can select whichever package they prefer.  Options are a good thing (within reason).

Even though it wouldn't be strictly a material CD, one possible scheme for this would be to produce the final tracks in .flac format, which is somewhat larger than quality mp3's, but it's lossless. The download package could then include all the printable artwork for the front & back of the
case(s), and the expository booklet. I think the production costs for the printed material could exceed that for the CD (not talking about music productioin here, just the duping of the CDs), especially with a decent booklet to go along with it.

Buyers would have to produce their own CD hard copy along with the printed material, but that's doable for many people nowadays.

I have downloaded quite a few albums in just this sort of package, and they are very high quality items.

Last edited by edosan (2009-12-04 23:55:58)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#13 2009-12-05 00:15:05

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

I must confess, I have not gotten music in this way before, but it sounds like a reasonable option all the more so, if the purchase instructions give easy to understand instructions for how to print things up.  I suppose the sale for the package could be set up on Okuda's website.  Maybe it would be a good idea to get more opinions though (including Okuda's, of course).  If the majority feel that they would prefer the download option, as you just presented it, then this may be something to seriously consider doing.  Personally, I feel like it's a good way to do things, but wait to hear other impressions.  My only worry is that accessing the content in this way may discourage some buyers. 

Going the digital downloadable route, the individual has the option to get a high quality "tangible" something they can hold in their hands and look at with a minimum of hassle.  They could also print up a CD if they really wanted.  Same thing with the notation.  Many would just keep it on their computer as a pdf, but some would print it out on nice paper, or even have it bound.  Doing things this way would certainly cut past alot of the red tape, save on production costs, and put options in the hands of the individual.

Last edited by Lorka (2009-12-05 00:24:52)


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#14 2009-12-05 01:55:55

Matt Lyon
Member
From: North Eastern Oregon
Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 92

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Lorka wrote:

My only worry is that accessing the content in this way may discourage some buyers.

Interesting point. For me tho, the reason I don't have the Jin Nyodo set is the $750 that Monty wants for it.

If it is all digital more people will end up buying it as the cost will be lower. The decision will probably be Okuda's in the end as it is his art that is being transmitted.

Personally I think that digital if fine and if you want it printed just take it to a print shop. If the scores only came as hard copies I would make them into pdf's just to save wear and tear on the originals.

Matt

Last edited by Matt Lyon (2009-12-05 01:57:27)

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#15 2009-12-05 02:13:13

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nřrre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Ooohhhhhh.... so much happening while I am just sleeping....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......
I have now emailed Okuda and asked him to tell me how many of his honkyoku he would record. I know he regards some as just study pieces. Once we know that and we have had a recording engineer out to see if it is possible to record at Okuda's home.... we can come up with the first budget. At least for the recording and editing part.
There are lots of details in such a project. Also the liner notes and explanations etc. There would be a lot of work in it.
This might take a long time, but I think it is a very exciting development of the shakuhachi community and what we can do together if we want to. I hope we can pull it through!


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#16 2009-12-05 02:56:42

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Matt Lyon wrote:

... the Jin Nyodo set is the $750 that Monty wants for it ...

Just for the record and vaguely pertinent to the subject at hand:

That's $750.00 for the complete Jin Nyodo set of all 50 (60?) pieces of sheet music plus the 6 CDs with a limited edition fine quality B&W, 128-page, 9x12-inch perfectbound book. The 6 Cds with book are $245.00 and the sheet music sold as a separate set is $545.00.

The price at Mejiro in Japan right now for the complete set  is $861.00 not including postage. Monty's price at $750.00 is a bargain if he has any left in stock.

I don't have the sheet music. (I wouldn't know what to do with it if I had it.)

The Jin CDs are sold only as a set and the reason for that lies with the publisher of the CDs and the Jin estate. I think they could have made more money if they sold the CDs separately but, then again, I'm not the publisher nor am I the estate.

High quality, limited edition CDs in Japan normally go for $25-$35 each.

Speaking of ...  Mejiro has a very fine limited CD reissue of Watazumi's album "Watazumido: His Practical Philosophy" for sale at 3000 yen plus another 1200 yen shipping to the USA. About $45 for the one CD.


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#17 2009-12-05 04:47:05

Christopher B.
Member
From: Berlin, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 235
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Hi all,

this Projekt is really getting up. I Think its really nice, I will have it on my website too.

Maybe it can be recorded with a mobile recorder without needing to spend so much money. There are alot of mobile recorders out for less then 300$ I have the MAUDIO Microtrack ll (159€) here and I must say the quality is much better then with my 2 Stereo mics. So the pieces just have to be recorded and mastered.

Best wishes!


In reality it is Ha,Ro,Ha,Ro... ~Sensei~
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#18 2009-12-05 09:45:31

Thomas
Member
From: New York City
Registered: 2006-04-21
Posts: 81

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

This is getting interesting...

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#19 2009-12-05 11:38:37

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Hey Matt, Chris, and others,

The Jin Nyodo set is sort of an inspiration for this one, but as you have pointed out, the Nyodo set is grossly prohibitive with respect to its pricing.  Not that many people can afford to drop so much on this (myself included). 

It is my hope that the Okuda Box set can take a different route... one that invites people to purchase it, rather than frighten them away with an excessive price tag.


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#20 2009-12-05 16:20:02

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Lorka wrote:

The Jin Nyodo set is sort of an inspiration for this one, but as you have pointed out, the Nyodo set is grossly prohibitive with respect to its pricing.  Not that many people can afford to drop so much on this (myself included). 
.

It's only that expensive because of the demented nature of the Japanese economy. If we do it in USA or Oz it will be much cheaper.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#21 2009-12-05 16:47:36

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

One other thing to consider, especially in the light of my notion of letting the enduser print any of the package material, is the size of the
sheet music. It would be nice to have those sheets larger than 8.5x11—11x17, say—and that can present some problems for many purchasers, presenting one more hurdle to jump.

Chikuzen has had a fair bit of experience in printing up decent sheet music like this. Perhaps he can give some input.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#22 2009-12-05 19:37:24

BrianP
Member
From: Ocala, FL
Registered: 2006-11-03
Posts: 289
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

If you are referring to making the sheet music available to the customer to print it can be done well in PDF format and printed at any staples on card stock.  I personally use PIP printing where I am at and it isn't too expensive.  I did it at Staples last week with some Taniguchi scores I got from him in Japan and it was $11usd for 34 scores on card stock like the Yokoyama scores.  In larger bulk it would have been $9usd.  I don't know if this helps but...

Edit:

That is referring to 11x17

Last edited by BrianP (2009-12-05 19:38:05)


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http://gaijinkomuso.blogspot.com

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#23 2009-12-05 19:52:37

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

There seem to be some strong incentives for doing it as a web product and letting the consumer print these things out themselves. Saves on postage too.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#24 2009-12-05 21:29:18

Moran from Planet X
Member
From: Here to There
Registered: 2005-10-11
Posts: 1524
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

BrianP wrote:

I did it at Staples last week with some Taniguchi scores I got from him in Japan and it was $11usd for 34 scores on card stock like the Yokoyama scores.

Heya BrianP,
Is there a new copy technology that holds the toner ink firmly to the paper so it doesn't run ... say, if you just happened to spill a bottle of saké on it?


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#25 2009-12-05 21:56:25

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Okuda Box Set Update

Chris Moran wrote:

Is there a new copy technology that holds the toner ink firmly to the paper so it doesn't run ... say, if you just happened to spill a bottle of saké on it?

Not funny..........I just played at the Royal Institute of Architects and one of the architectural KNOBS spilled red wine on my much discussed super expensive Jin Nyodo notation! sad


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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