Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

dear tairaku,

thank you for the welcome. although you will be able to find certain articles and books on zen meditation and cannabis, you won't be able to find it so easily in regards to flutes and cannabis. i was able to find a link a long time ago regarding this matter on the web somewhere, but now i can't. in fact, when i saw the link, that's when i made the video, because i was reminded of the knowledge and obama's announcement that federal government won't go after the patients, etc. in any case, cannabis has been used in meditation including zen and tao, which has a long and deep ties with "enlightenment via sounds." bamboo flutes in general, including shakuhachi later by monks, have helped many to reach the blissfulness via sound and cannabis meditation.

deeply,
molado

Tairaku wrote:

Hi Molado, welcome to the forum.

Could you please post the actual link to the scholarly paper which purports to show that komuso hit the bong while doing suizen?

And your video doesn't have any of your playing, I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear that so we can see where you're coming from as a shakuhachi player.

Last edited by molado (2010-01-17 19:07:54)

molado wrote:

please look for "Zen Hemp Haiku."

Well, I've looked at "Zen Hemp Haiku", and? I don't see anything about them smoking weed. Plus there is no Kanji to prove that they are actually talking about cannabis.

"Note about the Haiku translation: these poems were extracted already translated into English from the original Japanese. While they seem to be an accurate representation of hemp, this author has not seen the original Japanese texts to determine the actual Kanji characters used."


If it says 'kusa'(草), which means grass, herbs, straw etc... it's not hemp'. If it says 'asa'(麻), well, then that is hemp. Kind of like this haiku from Matsuo Bassho:

畑打つ音やあらしの桜麻　hatake ustu oto ya arashi no sakura 'asa'

Sakura asa is a type of hemp that looks like some sort of sakura when it blooms. Again, does this prove anything about Matsuo Basho smoking weed? NO.

As for all of Kobayashi Issa's haiku, I couldn't find one that had the kanji for hemp. If somebody finds one and is kind enough to prove me wrong, by all means, please do so.

In haiku, renga, waka, kanshi etc..., mentioning different flowers, weeds, and trees is not  rare at all.

molado wrote:

...taoists have been using cannabis for ages in meditation.

Yes, there is reference of some taoists burning cannabis, getting high etc etc... but there is no mention of this in the original taoist texts such the lao tzu, chuang tzu and so on... The rest is all folkloric taoism that we see today and it mostly stems from china's old shamanistic history, it might have even came from india, the middle east through the silk road, who knows. BUT, there is no mention of flutes.

molado wrote:

taoists with flutes, whether it's shakuhachi or not, have practiced suizen either knowing or unknowingly since the beginning.

Ofcourse there is folkloric taoist flute playing like the Xiao, but it's not played by blowing cannabis smoke out of it,  that's just rediculous.

molado wrote:

some specific knowledge and methods are only passed on secretly to only the selected for obvious reasons.

Ya, that's what most people say when they don't have enough knowledge or education on a certain subject, or even are smoking too much weed becoming repugnant and trying to justify their own messed up delusion.


Hemp has had a long history in Japan, that we know, but all this concept about blowing smoke out of a flute (be it shakuhachi or not) to meditate is filled with so much idiocy that it's too much of a waste of time to start searching for a piece of historical evidence.

Gishin wrote:

And in the end to cut this short and stop the idiocy of this deluded individual right freaking now. There has NEVER been any known or spread usage of POT in Japan.

In defense of the "deluded individual", he did provide a link (or actually, I did..., I think...). Maybe the veracity of the article is questionable, but I find it interesting that no one has mentioned that the effects of pot would be detrimental to a zen students progress. I don't know zen meditation at all and don't know pot either since I'm in one of the states where it's illegal, but I do know from other forms of meditation that the pairing of meditation and getting high doesn't work. For me, meditation isn't about experiencing a goal but developing the ability to get there. If someone uses pot to help them along the path (the meditation path at least, I'll leave the question about if it has any spiritual value at all to others), and it's not even the same destination, can't you see where they just missed point entirely?

P.S. Gishin, I'm not taking stabs at you using marijuana medicinally here, which I think I remember you said you did. Just that I thought it was best to meditate sober.

Well, just to update you all on the junk he is spewing on his youtube comments...

When the historical evidence of Muhon Kakushin bringing the 'Fuke-Shu' from china to japan in the 13th century was posted as a comment in his shakuhachi cannabis blowing video link, this is what he replied:

"13th is what your government text is saying. you must know that a piece of bamboo stick didn't start in japan at the time by being "imported" from china. do you think that's the only time? it's been used since the beginning of mankind. if you studied tao, then you must know what i am talking about. in any case, japan is not a place to learn what you want to learn. you are learning the end end. know your roots by also "proving it." approach shakuhachi or any flute as a part of you, not a thing."

All I see here is that he changes subject and runs away from his own mess, like every other fraudulent delusional liar out there...

All we want is the evidence of Japanese monks blowing cannabis smoke out of shakuhachi for meditation purposes, that's all. You started it, you finish it.

Sadly he truly fits and promotes a stereotypical pattern  that we usually in people of his kind. What next he will claim Confucius and Chinese characters are Korean?


ooops this was already done!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFiNq2iWKv8

gishin,

your anger must be stemming for your extreme love for japan, not asia. if so, it's not your fault since you were educated in that way only. in that case, please let me clarify a few things for you. the word shakuhachi is only japanese. it only means 1.8 "shaku" in length.

fukeshu of kakushin is a sect, derived from suizen. suizen is a zen practice consisting of playing flutes (shakuhachi in japan's case) as a means of attaining self-realization. the monks from fukeshu, who practiced suizen were called komuso. in suizen, only a few selected had the privilege to the plant, who were mostly taoists and doctors of the time. first, you must attain "self-realization." second, you must have a good chi, meaning "green thumb."

i never said monks of fukeshu hit bongs nor claimed anything being "korean." in regards to your anger issues, you should know that exactly that has been plaguing you in forms of MS. even if i were lying, please do not anger so much for it's not good for you. if i weren't lying, you must have a courage to apologize and thank me for the information. either way, it's not so wise to let your ego go ahead of yourself.

also, there are a lot more in cannabis suizen. there are ways to let out the smoke or vapor. there are different holes and sounds that coincide with brain waves, or even plants for that matter. in any case, it is always good to know about things besides whatever given to you. that's when you know yourself who'd be ready for the instrument.

deeply,
molado

ps: what do you mean by "people of his kind?"

Gishin wrote:

Sadly he truly fits and promotes a stereotypical pattern  that we usually in people of his kind. What next he will claim Confucius and Chinese characters are Korean?


ooops this was already done!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFiNq2iWKv8

For further information, please go to...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/101.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_ … f_cannabis

btw, yes, only until 1961, to your knowledge or whoever the wrong information given to you, cannabis has been used widely in asia in forms of smoking, medicine, textiles, food, oil, clothing, etc etc, including japan. also, fyi, whether you'd believe me or not, i am not delusional. you are just lopsidedly educated. if i were delusional, i am sure it's not a way to help me by calling names or prejudging. only a delusional person would do such a thing.

Gishin wrote:

radi0gnome wrote:

Gishin wrote:

And in the end to cut this short and stop the idiocy of this deluded individual right freaking now. There has NEVER been any known or spread usage of POT in Japan.

In defense of the "deluded individual", he did provide a link (or actually, I did..., I think...).

P.S. Gishin, I'm not taking stabs at you using marijuana medicinally here, which I think I remember you said you did. Just that I thought it was best to meditate sober.

Sorry but the link is not even an article and has no content in any way please don't get on this boat of even trying to discuss with him. The article is completely wrong since they just assume Japanese were smoking or using the thing because they used it for textiles etc this is wrong and based on their personal agenda only it has nothing to do with the type of hemp they used in Japan that is all.

Now I do use a spray called Sativex made by G.W pharmaceutics and distributed by Bayer in Canada specifically for Multiple Sclerosis and Cancer patients. This spray was engineered to take most of the tripping effects away and target the region of the brain that causes spasticity and neuropathic pain. So far the only side effects I got depending on how tired I am is to get sleepy or have muchies if I ever make the mistake to wake up at night and walk around a bit.

"them smoking weed"

i never said (komuso) monks smoked weed.

"asa"

please do find out and write.

"some taoists burning cannabis"

do all zen practitioners play shakuhachi and all shakuhachi players are of zen?

"no mention of flutes."

flutes were more associated with "enlightenment via sound." later, flutes were added to suizen, the zen of breath, the life, the tao. yes, i am delusional in a way. well? does it make sense to you?

"enough knowledge or education on a certain subject, or even are smoking too much weed becoming repugnant and trying to justify their own messed up delusion."

this is far from the truth. i've seen many "potheads," yet they are not delusional nor over protective of their egos. please do not take my words as condescending, if you felt that way. certainly i wouldn't want to mean that.

You are not asking questions. You just want us to waste our time on your bullshit that is all.

I have no hatred at all but as usual when an individual does no get validation to his idiocy it will be translated as hate. Classical case of childish behavior. My beloved Japan???? Again classical case of you feeling this is what I am saying when I am not saying this please go back to where you belong and where is that??? Fantasyland!

"You are not asking questions."

yes, i am. you are not being mutually respectful here. please see how many question marks i have in my posts for you.

"You just want us to waste our time on your bullshit that is all."

i am sure your "our time" includes my time as well. please remember, you have started this thread.

"I have no hatred at all but as usual when an individual does no get validation to his idiocy it will be translated as hate."

where is the mercy? i hear nothing but self-justification. if you prejudge someone being an idiot, how can you give any validation to his idiocy? don't you see you are in dilemma here? don't you see it's been showing physically throughout your life?

"My beloved Japan????"

yes, your beloved japan. when you learn to gain other's perspective, only then you'll learn to enjoy. you extreme love for japan only backfires on people like me.

"Fantasyland!"

this also started by you. do you really not know "Judge not lest ye not......" mean?

my failure here is that i've given to much respect for you.

that is if you think you are arguing. nice to meet you.

Jon wrote:

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww21 … ternet.jpg