Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

jdanza said - "How can such a deep and profound instrument generate so much judgment and politics I'll never understand."

This deep and profound instrument did not generate said judgement and politics. These were generated by the shallow and inane idiots who use this instrument go bolster their own egos and further their own adgendas. Egos and adgendas are the source of judgements and politics.

Awesome post jdanca!!

When I'd just started playing, I said to my teacher
"one of the things I like about the shakuhachi is that there doesn't seem to be much ego involved". He laughed and said "you haven't met the right people yet then".


I see what he means now.

Strange how a little chunk of a plant can bring such arrogance.

"I am ever surprised and disturbed by how much the Shakuhachi community is so concerned with the form and the vehicle.
How can such a deep and profound instrument generate so much judgment and politics I'll never understand."

You are "surprised and disturbed" because you have judgments, ideals, etc. but most of us do. Thinking that shakuhachi is inherently deep or profound  or spiritual is placing it on a pedestal. That's bound to cause "surprise and disturbance" because no one can live up to an illusion.

TANKA TENNEN STOPPED OVERNIGHT IN A TEMPLE.

On a very cold night Tanka Tenned stopped at a temple. It was so cold that he lit fire to a statue of the buddha. Awaken by the fire the high priest came running: ”Are you mad or something? What are you doing? You have burned one of my most
valuable Buddhas!”

Then Tanka took his staff – and the Buddha was almost burned – and he started looking in the ashes of the Buddha.
The high priest said, ”What are you doing?”
He said, ”I am looking for Buddha’s "flowers". I have heard that Buddha has bones, and those bones
turn into flowers. I am looking for those flowers.”
The high priest laughed. He said, ”You are certainly insane. It was just a wooden statue, it was not
a buddha!”
And Tanka Tennen said, ”Aha! So it was not the Buddha! And the night is still long and very cold,
and you have so many wooden statues; just bring one or two more.”
The high priest said, ”You are a very dangerous fellow! I cannot allow you to stay in the temple.”
And he forced Tanka Tennen outside the temple in the middle of the night.

Last edited by Jon (2010-01-17 20:51:27)

Jim Thompson wrote:

In support of your not heard often enough statement, I'd like to add:
   If I do something artistic, does that make me artistic?     No.
   If I do something artisticALLY, does that me me artistic?  Yes.
   Art is an attitude and an intention. It is not any specific act.

Nicely put, Jim.

But there's a rub to this: If I do something artistically, does that make me an artist?

Chris Moran wrote:

If I do something artistically, does that make me an artist?

For that moment, absolutely!

Jon wrote:

You are "surprised and disturbed" because you have judgments, ideals, etc. but most of us do. Thinking that shakuhachi is inherently deep or profound  or spiritual is placing it on a pedestal. That's bound to cause "surprise and disturbance" because no one can live up to an illusion.

I bow to you, Jon. You are absolutely right that it is my jugdment.
   I do, however, feel that there is some kind of "objective" quality to the instrument that touches most people very deeply (other than some children, dogs and cats . It certainly changed my life, which would be too long a story to tell here, and from my performances the feedback that I get is pretty consistent. So I confess I do put it on a pedestal. Considering that I have been playing music for about forty years exclusively, traveled and trained in several instruments all over the world, and have passionately studied the power of sound, I do humbly trust that my opinion/feeling holds some weight
  For me the Shakuhachi, ever since I first heard it, clearly represented the voice of Spirit calling Home, and since I've always felt a sense of not belonging to this strange place, it affected me in a profound way.
   But, going back to your comment... it is certainly my bias and, as an old teacher of mine used to say: "Opinions are like assholes... everybody's got one".
 
  Justin, thank you for your thoughtful comments... One difference about Tibetan Buddhists... they have a sense of humor!. I lived for three years in India and spent lots of time in monasteries. I never met a Lama that took themselves too seriously (can't say that for many Shakuhachi sensei).

Last edited by jdanza (2010-01-18 14:52:57)

jdanza wrote:

Justin, thank you for your thoughtful comments... One difference about Tibetan Buddhists... they have a sense of humor!. I lived for three years in India and spent lots of time in monasteries. I never met a Lama that took themselves too seriously (can't say that for many Shakuhachi sensei).

Hi Jdanza
Yes most Tibetan masters have a great sense of humour don't they! One of the (many) great things about the tradition. I've also spent years in India and Nepal studying and practicing, and occasionally came across some aspects I didn't like. To take an example relevant to contemporary life, it is often taught that "Enlightenment cannot be achieved without receiving Highest Yoga Tantra (Anuttarayoga Tantra) initiations and practicing tantra." This then excludes even Japanese Vajrayana Buddhism (the closest by lineage to Tibetan Buddhism) since they are missing these Tantras. Or, it is taught that Hinayana Buddhism cannot lead to full enlightenment. Some highly trained monk-philosophy teachers directly equate Hinayana with Theravada Buddhism now existing in Thailand, Laos etc, even though if they cared to study from within these traditions they would find they do also contain Mahayana teachings (as defined by Tibetans, thought the Theravadins would not call them "Mahayana, and indeed there are monk-philosophy teachers in Thailand teaching how Tibetan Buddhism is not Buddhism at all and that they have no hope!)

So these things are messy and, I think, unpleasant. If what they were saying in these things was the truth, I think it would be OK. But the thing is, I don't believe it is. That's not because I want everyone to "get along". It's because of having studied these points from within the respective traditions.

These points are difficult when entering a tradition. It can be easy to inherit these biases and I have met a number of intelligent Westerners who after years of study (not academic but as insiders) naturally come to believe these things. On the bright side, there are people like the Dalai Lama - when he was young he taught this view of the Highest Yoga tantra being the only way, but since he actively learned as much as he could about other traditions, he now has a much more open view and feels it is not the only way. Similarly, Choegyam Trungpa Rinpoche met the great Zen master Suzuki Roshi and had great respect for him, even bringing Zen elements into his own teaching methods.

I would hope that these sectarian elements, where they still remain, would not be enough to put anyone off from studying/practicing Tibetan Buddhism. I see it as the most effective and alive spiritual tradition of all, well worth dedicating ones life efforts to. Similarly I feel very disappointed when I hear a shakuhachi teacher saying "this embouchure/playing style is "suizen" and if you play another way it is not suizen", and students of a school believing only their school has any value. Simple logic or historical knowledge are enough to contradict these views. But again as with religion, I hope these arguments and sectarian traits would not be enough to put someone off. There is so much to learn from the traditions, and as individuals we can try to let these extreme views pass by, and if we don't believe them, simply not adopt them.

In fact they may serve some purpose. One of course is to give more encouragement in study. For the Highest Yoga Tantra for example, if the disciples believe it is the only way to enlightenment they will (hopefully) take it very seriously, generate more devotion and diligence, and be propelled into dedicated practice. With shakuhachi I don't think it is necessary or even helpful to believe other ways are bad, but, it may have a natural effect at keeping a school together, and preserving the lineage so that it doesn't get mixed up. That conservative factor that keeps the living world heterogenous, maintaining diversity (the compliment of creativity).

I guess in the end we all have our biases and levels of acceptance or boundaries. There are also plenty of people in the shakuhachi world who are very open to other schools, and plenty of Tibetan meditators (less focused on the words than the scholars!) who are also very open.

My conclusion personally is that in order to progress one must discriminate, and that within one school are indeed right and wrong ways of playing, but that these do not necessarily apply to other schools. And I enjoy studying from many schools. So I try to keep the styles as true to each school as possible. And though I may sometimes prefer a certain school, I really appreciate the different schools and what unique character each has to offer. I understand also that many of the best teachers may have no interest in other schools  and may indeed be biased against them, so I have found that it is sometimes best to not get into conversations about other schools. In fact if someone is obsessed with only their school that can often make them a very good teacher of their style. So, while the politics and biases within the Japanese shakuhachi world can at times be unpleasant, I encourage anyone who has the interest to "empty their cup", at least temporarily, suspending judgement and opening up to the treasures the traditional shakuhachi world has to offer.

Last edited by Justin (2010-01-18 22:03:25)

Jim Thompson wrote:

Chris Moran wrote:

And the next moment?

The choice is yours.

So you're pro-choice then.

Hey Justin et all
   The way I see it (wether in Buddhism or Shakuhachi) there are two streams that run parallel to each other and are equally necessary:
One is comprised by those who study, research and strictly stick to the Tradition. We can call them the Keepers. The other is comprised by those who, although knowledgeable and rooted in the Tradition, have a thirst to expand it and bring it up to the times by changing, adapting and experimenting. We can call them the Explorers...
In most cases Keepers and Explorers seem to act as enemies and fight endlessly, whereas I think both streams are very necessary and important, and don't contradict each other at all!.
  When I arrived in Canada and started my recording career I contacted the Shakuhachi society, wanting to connect to the community and be in touch with the"keepers". I received a dry and polite letter from the President, saying basically that he had no interest whatsoever in what I was doing because he only listened to Honkyoku. I don't need to tell you my opinion/feeling about that exchange. I never had anything to do with any Shakuhachi anything until I found this blessed forum. The Keepers and Explorers are still fighting, but at least here (mostly) there is communication and mutual respect, and an important exchange of information.
  I agree with Justin that we need discrimination, but discrimination and judgment are a very different thing (discrimination says: "this is no good for me", judgment says: "this is no good").
  There are many roads that lead to the top of the Mountain. May we all meet there and celebrate our diversity.

As for the other parallel thread running here about art and being an artist I say: who cares?. Those are just labels for the display of the ego. As my first teacher kindly told me: "Shut up and play your flute"

Last edited by jdanza (2010-01-18 23:42:45)

May I contend that you are all illusions - presented here are many points of view based on feelings and emotions and fueled by experiences...  All this is merely mental flossing. The instrument that we complete by providing it with breath and sound is nothing more. A wooden Buddha indeed.  There are other parables that meet this issue -the one where the old monk carries the woman across a stream, comes to mind directly and more applicably.  I believe that the issue should have been laid to rest moments after it began. WE in our own minds create our perception -don't let others change it for you. The shakuhachi - Is a wooden buddha. It is whatever we/ the users have created. And we evolve it does not.
But in regard to discrimination, and tonality, and schools of thought and "correctness" -these too have their place. What a loss to the world could we not hear an ensemble of instruments -in tune and focused - together making far more than each individually. Belief also can provide more understanding when expressed as a group -focused and in tune.  But beware lest the Ego once again makes you think that this is more than illusion.
O

We should just keep an empty mind and play. let others do what they will do.