Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Tairaku 太楽 · 2006-05-15 10:05:23

Greetings,

Are there any good computer programs/software for writing Kinko notation? User friendly, not for computer geeks only?

Regards,

Tairaku

Bruce Hunter · 2006-05-15 12:27:18

Tairaku,
I use a font called shakukana. It's a True-type font and I use it in a spreadsheet. Google should find you a free download.
HTH,
Bruce Hunter

dstone · 2006-05-15 12:47:11

Tairaku,

I created a basic notation font here: ShakuhachiNotation

If you use that font in Excel, for example, you can lay out measured music pretty easily. For honkyoku, you can set up a table in Word with, say, 10 columns... center-align each column, hit Enter after each character, and you sort of have the basics. It falls short though, I know.

I intend to create a notation program and this font will be the first step. I have limited time and this project is on the side-burner, I'd like to solicit ideas from people who would use such a beast.

-Darren.

ima_hima · 2006-05-15 20:08:41

Hmm. Actually I'm also planning to start on a shakuhachi notation program in the next couple of weeks. Ideally, it will convert from Kinko to Tozan to MIDI to Western and back. Obviously, this will involve some compromises.

Perhaps we should work together?

I'm planning on writing for Mac OS X, and I'm thinking of basing it (or attempting to base it) on Calliope, which is open-source software for Western notation: http://sourceforge.net/projects/calliopemusic which may or may not be a good idea.

That said, I'm really just starting on the planning stages of this project, and I'll probably end up way over my head in code.

It will be GUI-based (i.e. mouse, not text) and the plan is for it to be user-friendly not only in usage, but also in installation, so you don't have to install a million little software libraries and such to get it to work.

Anyway, I have to work out some software design issues first, but any ideas about input methods, etc. would be welcome.

dstone · 2006-05-15 21:11:30

Hi Ima. I'm also at the planning stages, though last year I cobbled together an app that took textual input in either western pitches (e.g. "C#5") (potentially extracted from MIDI) or labels for shakuhachi pitches, with duration and measure/breath breaks, and then rendered a page of honkyoku-like notation. Output was rough and the interface was brutal.

I'd like to target multiple platforms with a GUI app, since I use Linux primarily, but occasionally Windows (largest user base there), and acknowledge that there are many Mac users also, especially among musicians. But this requires special planning... Two approaches I've had luck with for cross-platform GUI apps in the past: standalone Java apps, and apps based on wxWidgets. I'm considering the latter with Python as the underlying language because that also has excellent Win/Mac/Linux support and excellent built-in libraries, so no need for "a million little software libraries", as you say. And Python is a great language (comes with Mac OS X, I believe).

But if wxWidgets and Python is not your cup of tea, perhaps we could collaborate on a project in Java? Java apps take on native OS look-and-feel reasonably well, and I believe there is decent bitmap/PDF/TTF and that sort of support in Java.

By the way, my assumption here is that such a program would be free on the basis that the shakuhachi community needs this software but the target audience is so small that it wouldn't be commercially significant.

Anyways, nice to see that one way or another this void could be filled some day. Drop me an email off-forum and we can instant-message or email or something...

-Darren.

Moran from Planet X · 2006-05-15 23:39:02

ima_hima wrote:
Hmm. Actually I'm also planning to start on a shakuhachi notation program in the next couple of weeks. Ideally, it will convert from Kinko to Tozan to MIDI to Western and back. Obviously, this will involve some compromises.

Sounds magnificent. Now, if we could get Chikuho notation fit in there (Dr. Riley Lee) it would be quite the bee's knees!

kyoreiflutes · 2006-05-16 01:39:44

Darren, isn't it possible that you might not have to do much for the Mac side of things? Doesn't OSX basically run on a linux base, or am I wrong on that?

I use both platforms, and plan to keep doing so when I get an iMac. I do graphics and such on the PC, but video on the Mac. At some point, I'll probably go all mac, but that's not for some time.

Just my two cents.

-E

dstone · 2006-05-16 02:19:19

kyoreiflutes wrote:
Darren, isn't it possible that you might not have to do much for the Mac side of things? Doesn't OSX basically run on a linux base, or am I wrong on that?

Sure, if a programmer plans well, it's possible to create a GUI application that runs on Windows, OS X, Linux, BSD, and more. But OS X has a BSD-based kernel, which isn't Linux at all. Non graphic apps might get away with only minor differences but OS X's APIs for graphics, windows, buttons, menus, fonts, etc. is significantly different than Linux (KDE/Gnome/GTK/Qt/etc. on X) or Windows or anything else.

That's where tools like Java or wxWidgets can help a lot -- they abstract away many of these details away so the programmer can think and code in generic terms. The disadvantages can include a learning curve (for the programmer), slower execution times (not significant for a shakuhachi notation program), and maybe losing some platform-specific luxuries.

Okay, nerd talk OFF temporarily... Soliciting potential user feedback now, from everyone...

1. Would people see this kind of app as essentially a word processor, with something of a blinking horizontal cursor that worked its way down lines and across the page (right to left) as one entered notes, instructions, phrases, etc.? Maybe with a palette of symbols off to the side and/or a keyboard mapping for typing the notation?

2. Not being familiar with Tozan notation, is it realistic to think of describing/saving pieces with all/most required nuances and special techniques in a generic, conceptual format? Any piece could then be rendered at will into Kinko or Tozan or Chikuho or whatever, at will? (e.g. special layout styles and fonts for each school could be "plugged in", modularly) Or is there something fundamental about the nature of some schools' repertoire that might prevent this generalizing or translation?

Sorry if I'm asking naive questions or reinventing a wheel... I'm a proficient programmer but a relative beginner to honkyoku, and my exposure has only been to Kinko thus far.

-Darren.

dstone · 2006-05-16 02:39:12

Ima... thinking out loud, and extending the thinking of my second question... whether or not we collaborate on a project right now, it may be advantageous to design a standard "Shakuhachi Piece" file format (XML or text-based) that described a piece, measured or unmeasured, and with no particular style/school attached. That would be the means of exchange/input/output of any programs or even simple import/export utilities that could be written later, by anyone else, for Mac/Windows or whatever. I'm quite sure this doesn't exist yet.

From that common-denominator format, we could transform, transpose, render different school styles, export/import to/from MIDI (yuck, but...), etc.

I have a few thoughts of what this format might look like. I've dropped you an email with my contact info.

-Darren.

asmanien · 2006-08-30 15:53:31

I have developped a shakuhachi notation editor and sequencer software for about two years (holidays, weekends). It is far not complete and there are bugs, but it includes nice features:
It supports supports Kinko and Tozan notation and conversion. You can edit, print and play the pieces (compressed xml format). A virtual shakuhachi shows how to play the notes in realtime.
It requires Windows and the .net framework 1.1
In some days I will release an improved version based on the .net framework 2.0
I am looking forward to feedback, bug reports and suggestions to improve the software.
Download: http://software.webmoment.at/

Albert

Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

#1 2006-05-15 10:05:23

Computer notation

#2 2006-05-15 12:27:18

Re: Computer notation

#3 2006-05-15 12:47:11

Re: Computer notation

#4 2006-05-15 20:08:41

Re: Computer notation

#5 2006-05-15 21:11:30

Re: Computer notation

#6 2006-05-15 23:39:02

Re: Computer notation

ima_hima wrote:

#7 2006-05-16 01:39:44

Re: Computer notation

#8 2006-05-16 02:19:19

Re: Computer notation

kyoreiflutes wrote:

#9 2006-05-16 02:39:12

Re: Computer notation

#10 2006-08-30 15:53:31

Re: Computer notation

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