Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

purehappiness wrote:

It almost feels kind of cruel that we claim these animals as ours anyways. We should just be their friends and let them live their own lives. But then I don't know how long dogs would live by themselves in the wild.I suppose dogs and man do coexist well together.

...and they have for at least 12,000 years.

Besides, in spite of all the cruelty and neglect millions of pets are subject to, the 'Wild' is an even more vicious and heartless place.

Get a grip.

purehappiness wrote:

It almost feels kind of cruel that we claim these animals as ours anyways. We should just be their friends and let them live their own lives. But then I don't know how long dogs would live by themselves in the wild.I suppose dogs and man do coexist well together.

My family had a Samoyed when I was 11 - 15 years old. I'm always surpised at how often I think of her through out the years.

Laurie and Kinya has a yard inhabited by many denizens with whom they enjoy a respectful co-existence. They recently documented the raising of a family right outside their bathroom window. This one is named Mejiro.


Photo by Laurie Sogawa

Last edited by Yungflutes (2010-02-04 09:27:19)

In the communication department take a look at dolphins and elephants.  They pass the MSR (Mirror Self-Recognition) test, indicating self-consciousness.  Read G.A. Bradshaw's Elephants On the Edge; What Animals Teach Us About Humanity (2009) for an eye opening view of the pachyderms...(traumatized elephants and the breakdown of elephant cultures under stresses of wars, culls, poaching, habitat loss...)

Tairaku wrote:

... Similarly women treat each other much worse than men treat women. So these feminists should stop harassing us dudes.

Getting back to the topic at hand:

Many prehistoric anthropologists would argue that man has been able to accomplish what he has specifically because dogs chose to be our companions.  Certainly many dogs have been and are treated as property and in strictly pragmatic terms.  However, dogs kind of domesticated themselves by exploiting ancient trash heaps that sprang up outside of prehistoric villages for food.  Dogs, in many ways, naturally selected themselves for tameness by virtue of their flight tolerance.  The most tolerant of people simply found their way back to the source of the trash/food, the village itself.  Dogs have also been selected, by men, for their propensity to bark.  This became a major upper hand in survival for villages with dogs, as opposed to those without.  Although a great deal of violence has been perpetrated on the domestic dog, the actual domestication of the dog was not such a violent occurance, at least as far people interested can ascertain.

I'm sure that there are lots of people who still feel that they own their dogs, and are therefore responsible for them.  However, I think that a growing majority of people feel that our dogs and cats, at least, are ours in much the same way that our children or our parents are ours.  The ownership and "beast of burden" factor seems to be fading for many, although what you describe is a very Buddhist way of looking at the pet owner scenario.  And, I understand the vast difference in when you have to take your pet to the vet to be put down.  It is quite a bit more active than simply letting our loved ones go and usually boils down to a question of convenience for most, not all but at least many.  My wife had a 15 year old cat that just would not stop pissing everywhere due to kidney issues.  We changed the food, which helped for a while and tried some other things that the vet suggested, but in the end he went back to having control issues.  I don't plan on taking my folks down to the suicide booth, a al Welcome to the Monkey House, when they can't hold their bowells anymore, so there is still alot of hypocrisy.  We snuffed the old cat late last year.

We still have a 10 year German Shepherd/Alsacian named Rommel (mine before the marriage), and a 6 year old boxer named Ally (hers before the marriage).  They have really been enjoying themselves since we all met 4 years ago.  When we finally moved in together, they were both very excited.  I'm glad my guy has company throughout the day now that he is getting up there in years.  I dread the day I'll have to take him to the vet for the needle.  Still, having seen another of my shepherds die from more natural causes, going the vet route does indeed seem more humane, in an ironic and rationalising kind of way.  Of course, I hear Chikuzen will off your cat for you at no charge, traveling expenses not withstanding. ;D

I can see both sides of it, but only because I haven't made the hard decision to go without pets.  That would be a difficult one for me, but I can respect it.  It is a moral decision very similar to eating meat.  I certainly respect vegetarianism, although I still enjoy eating meat.  It has helped me lose weight recently, even.  It is odd, because I said I wouldn't take my folks down to the suicide booth, but the decisions involved in putting a pet down often boil down to, "do I have enough money for the medicine needed."  Here in the US similar decisions are made all the time about people based on whether or not the family can afford the health care.  Recently people even tried to "pull through" to the new year because a capital gains tax was expiring.  Now, lots of folks may decide to "pull the plug" (we have euphemisms for evetything) before new years eve to take advantage of the lapse before it is rectified.  Certainly, it is a sick business.  Still, I think that ideas of purity and stainlessness are euphemisms in and of themselves.  I think the point of the thread is that a guy lost his pal.  In such situations I generally make a nervous and inappropriate joke, but that is probably not the best reaction.  Resorting to our "Buddhist" persona may not be the classiest thing to do either, but I see where you are coming from on it.

Hey Jam.
I remember when the mad Springer I grew up with (mad even by springer standards) died while I was off at Uni. In some ways not being there was the hardest part, it feels like "home" will never be the same again. Which is true enough, but it's still home, the hole heals. When you get there, you'll see.

Low - have you seen the Russian research with the tame Foxes - and the scarier stuff done with breeding rats for behavioural traits?
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 … ation.html

For some reason it makes me think about Gandhi's comment on western civilisation.

Last edited by Ambi (2010-02-10 14:49:27)

Jam wrote:

If I may interject,

I appreciate everyone's posts in this thread. While I'm still upset, it's getting easier. I couldn't imagine a life without a pet. It's going to be difficult going home.

Saying that, everyone's entitled to an opinion, and I honestly don't mind that it happens in here.

Yes, back to the subject at hand ...

Gosh how terrible.

"believe in the foma [harmless untruths] that make you brave and kind and healthy and happy"

Or not.

Another thing it showed is to watch out what you do in life because you never know what results it will bring(karma?).

Dogs came to our home fires long ago, Pure.  ...cats sauntered into our midden areas sometime after that.  I love my kitties a heck of a lot.  Do I own them?  Let's say I care for them and leave it at that. 

It's actually quite interesting, the theory of domesticated pets.  Dogs with a lower adrenaline response were the ones that came close to the fire, probably; those who stayed fearful and away remained wolves.  A few decades back, Russian scientists selectively bred foxes, choosing the friendliest ones to breed litters; within a few generations they had very dog-like foxes, even with 'doggish' features.

Interesting. Living in a wooded area I see so many different animals. Coyote,raccoon, turkeys,otters once, etc... All animals are such beautiful creatures. I have chipmunks scurrying about all of the time as well as squirrels too.

I saw some foxes playing in the street once. They are very beautiful. That brings up another subject on how anyone could hunt. I know I can't. I don't fish either. It is too cruel. Especially, if you don't eat them.I remeber one day while fishing I picked up this pumpkin seed or perch I caught and just looked at it gasping for air and that was the last time I fished. Why do it. You know.I think we all need to realize how beautiful all the animals are.

Last edited by purehappiness (2010-03-05 11:45:16)

edosan wrote:

purehappiness wrote:

Interesting. Living in a wooded area I see so many different animals. Coyote,raccoon, turkeys,otters once, etc... All animals are such beautiful creatures. I have chipmunks scurrying about all of the time as well as squirrels too.

I saw some foxes playing in the street once. They are very beautiful. That brings up another subject on how anyone could hunt. I know I can't. I don't fish either. It is too cruel.

Cruelty is relative. Get hongry enough, you can hunt. Or eat grass. No problem.

Cruelty is definitely relative. If you wanted to carry it out to an extreme then think about all those cows caged up and giving you milk or even chickens laying eggs. Then there are leather goods and feather pillows. If you eat meat then at some point it was walking around. The difference is how detached you are from the process.