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#1 2010-02-23 09:17:49

Musgo da Pedra
Member
From: South of Brazil
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 332
Website

Shaving the chin rest

I have a 1.8 which have the a straight chin rest. See the pic:


http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv24/musgodapedra/chinrest.jpg



Someone very skilled and in which I trust a lot sugested me to shave it to make it round, because the flute is a bit sharp at all. The idea is that doing this I will besides the comfort, get the pitch a bit lowered because I will have my lips a bit closer to the mouthpiece.

I think this way the flute could be blowed a bit more kari what will give more room to dai meri notes (but I am affraid that playing it kari will make the flute get back to the original place)

This job is not hard, for sure, but I am not sure if it's a nice thing to do that on a old flute without be certain that it will make the improvement I want.


Any thought?


Omnia mea mecum porto

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#2 2010-02-23 10:46:42

radi0gnome
Member
From: Kingston NY
Registered: 2006-12-29
Posts: 1030
Website

Re: Shaving the chin rest

Musgo da Pedra wrote:

I have a 1.8 which have the a straight chin rest. See the pic:


http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv24 … inrest.jpg



Someone very skilled and in which I trust a lot sugested me to shave it to make it round, because the flute is a bit sharp at all. The idea is that doing this I will besides the comfort, get the pitch a bit lowered because I will have my lips a bit closer to the mouthpiece.

I think this way the flute could be blowed a bit more kari what will give more room to dai meri notes (but I am affraid that playing it kari will make the flute get back to the original place)

This job is not hard, for sure, but I am not sure if it's a nice thing to do that on a old flute without be certain that it will make the improvement I want.


Any thought?

I'm not sure because of the limited number of instruments I've had my hands on, but it rings true to me that rounded chin rests make the flute meri easier. However, that same flute that your post made me think about is hard to play in tune because it's so easy to meri that it is hard not to meri to some degree.

You left out a lot of information, most that fits under the umbrella of "how good of a flute is this"? This can have different answers depending on who is evaluating, but what I'd take most into consideration is if there is evidence this is a well-played flute that it's time to be cautious about modifications. You could be destroying a rare clue to understanding the aesthetics of a different culture in a different time.


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#3 2010-02-23 10:50:36

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Shaving the chin rest

Do it.

I doubt very much that rounding it off even quite a bit will put your lips ANY closer to the mouthpiece, and it will make the flute much
more comfortable to play. If you are concerned, just do it a little at a time, and see how it goes.

I suggest using a fairly coarse file to change the overall shape, and smoothing it with a couple grades of sandpaper--I'm sure you'll
have no difficulty doing that part.

Some examples (in case you don't happen to have any laying around..):

       http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/255/threeutaguchiscs2.jpg

Don't change the overall angle of the back cut, just work on the area right across from the utaguchi.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#4 2010-02-23 14:22:17

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Shaving the chin rest

That Ichijo looks purty, very nice dark mottling going on there.  Is it bamboo from kyush area? Oh yeah, and a nice chin rest to boot.


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#5 2010-02-23 17:35:15

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Shaving the chin rest

Lorka wrote:

Is it bamboo from kyush area?

Probably. Here's a pick of the entire instrument:

      http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/907/rtendtop800he2.jpg

It's a very nice shakuhachi.


Lorka wrote:

Oh yeah, and a nice chin rest to boot.

I rounded that off a fair bit more myself. Ichijo's chinrests aren't rounded off, and a bit fuller, with a nice angle to the
actual part that hits the chin. I just made his profile more rounded, and took a tad off.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#6 2010-02-23 19:08:36

Christopher B.
Member
From: Berlin, Germany
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 235
Website

Re: Shaving the chin rest

*OFF TOPIC*

But hey this flute look really really beautiful ED!!!

All the Best!


In reality it is Ha,Ro,Ha,Ro... ~Sensei~
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#7 2010-02-23 20:09:40

Musgo da Pedra
Member
From: South of Brazil
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Shaving the chin rest

radi0gnome wrote:

I'm not sure because of the limited number of instruments I've had my hands on, but it rings true to me that rounded chin rests make the flute meri easier. However, that same flute that your post made me think about is hard to play in tune because it's so easy to meri that it is hard not to meri to some degree.

You left out a lot of information, most that fits under the umbrella of "how good of a flute is this"? This can have different answers depending on who is evaluating, but what I'd take most into consideration is if there is evidence this is a well-played flute that it's time to be cautious about modifications. You could be destroying a rare clue to understanding the aesthetics of a different culture in a different time.

Hi Charles!

To be honest, I don't use to have many problems to play in tune, but I would like to make some things flow better, that would be great!!! For example, the angle I need to play in D at 440hz is almost the same used for some meri (maybe chu meri)in other flutes. So if I need to get in pitch with other people that can make the things a bit dificult. A BIT dificult not impossible. I will only need to play a bit lower in pitch and maybe will not get all the sonority out of the flute.

It's a really nice flute, really well played, even in my home. If I would not being careful, my axe would already made it round in a single slam (euhieuheiuheue) and I would not be here asking! I am conscious about the value that some shakuhachi have even besides money, maker, age, and other things.

Thanks for make me get slower.




edosan wrote:

Do it.

I doubt very much that rounding it off even quite a bit will put your lips ANY closer to the mouthpiece, and it will make the flute much
more comfortable to play. If you are concerned, just do it a little at a time, and see how it goes.

Hi Ed!

Thanks for the encouragement! Maybe even just the comfort can worth the job. I am not afraid to work on it, but to work on a flute that someone who used to make greater flutes than me. Although I think it will be good to the playability, I was feeling weird about do that.

I will do.


And let me say too, the Ichijo is beautiful! I have only seen one in front of me once, from Lienhard (what a sound he gets!!!) and maybe soon I will have the oportunity to play in another from a friend! wowwwww


Thank you Edo!


Omnia mea mecum porto

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#8 2010-02-23 21:22:06

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Shaving the chin rest

Thanks for the pic Ed, I really dug it.  It is pretty close to perfect, at least in terms of aesthetic considerations, nodal placement, etc.  I love that mix of darker colours as well.  I would be a little scared doing work on a flute that costs multiple thousands of dollars, but it looks great the way you have done it.   Comfort really is important, otherwise you will never really bond with a flute.  If it does not feel right in the hands and the chin, then you will never love it, no matter how good it is inside the bore.  This is, of course, not to suggest that the work in the bore is unimportant, but for everything to work it has to be a unity of feel and sound.


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#9 2010-02-24 00:36:13

Karmajampa
Member
From: Aotearoa (NZ)
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 574
Website

Re: Shaving the chin rest

I'm not clear as to whether you are referring to the inner or outer edge ?

However, if you intend to spend a lot of time with this flute I think you should adjust it to your feel, but very gradually so you don't take off more than you need to.

Regarding the inner edge, I have found this affects the proximity of my lips to the edge and I would begin with no more than three passes with a 180 grade sandpaper then polish with something much finer, then play for several hours before taking a similar amount off. Also check the angle that you are removing, that it actually affects the discomfort and improves it. If you don't get the correct angle you may not feel much difference.
My experience is that removing material from the inner edge brings the lips closer to the edge and also sharpens the pitch, very slightly but still evident.

Regarding the outer edge, I like that rounded all the way round but again as above, a little at a time, with good checking between adjustments.

It makes sense to me that as people have such different profiles that one chinrest will not fit all chins, so why not adjust it for your personal fit, just don't mess up with impatience.

One last thought is, are you pulling the flute in too tightly overall, if you relax your hold, is it now comfortable and still plays as it should ?

K.


Kia Kaha !

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#10 2010-02-24 00:56:07

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Shaving the chin rest

Lorka wrote:

I would be a little scared doing work on a flute that costs multiple thousands of dollars, but it looks great the way you have done it.   Comfort really is important, otherwise you will never really bond with a flute.  If it does not feel right in the hands and the chin, then you will never love it, no matter how good it is inside the bore.

I made and worked on fretted instruments that were worth several times what this shakuhachi cost (which was plenty, I must add), so I'm not intimidated by the idea of tweaking it. I do not know this for a fact, but I suspect that Ichijo leaves the back area of the chinrest un-rounded, so as to give some leeway to the purchaser in shaping it. He puts a definite shape to that area, and other of his new flutes that I've seen are
shaped with that same sort of facet right at the chin-contact point, and it's not rounded off. I have an Ichijo 2.4 that was the same way when I bought it. More like this:

          http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1722/ichijoutanew01.jpg

Last edited by edosan (2010-02-24 01:10:14)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#11 2010-02-24 08:20:28

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Shaving the chin rest

Is this a common practice, leaving an area that is to be fitted to the personal needs of the player?  I have not heard of it till you brought it up.  It's a pretty good idea though.  Makes sense.  What's comfortable to one player might be hindering to another. 

Next uncomfortable flute I get, I'm sending it your way for a good shaving :-)


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#12 2010-02-24 13:57:59

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Shaving the chin rest

Lorka wrote:

Is this a common practice, leaving an area that is to be fitted to the personal needs of the player?  I have not heard of it till you brought it up.  It's a pretty good idea though.  Makes sense.  What's comfortable to one player might be hindering to another. 

Next uncomfortable flute I get, I'm sending it your way for a good shaving :-)

I honestly don't know, or even if it's the intention of Ichijo.

Only difficulty with sending a flute to get shaved is that your chin will have to come along, too...


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#13 2010-02-24 16:23:50

Lorka
Member
Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Shaving the chin rest

Sounds good to me, neither my chin or my shakuhachi have ever been to Salt Lake City.


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#14 2010-03-30 08:47:04

Musgo da Pedra
Member
From: South of Brazil
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Shaving the chin rest

The flute was shaved about 3 weeks ago, and now I am feeling really adapted to the new shape of the chin rest.

When I did it, I thought my embouchure has been lost.

Now, I feel that I have the desired effect that I wanted. I can play with the flute more vertically, and also, I have the pich a bit lowered (about 15 cents).

So, I think that my sensei was right about the issue. 2~3 mm less on the chin rest can put your lips a bit closer to the mouthpiece and do the trick of lower the pitch a bit...

I am without cam, but I will post a pic just to people compare with the original shape.


A big hug


Omnia mea mecum porto

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