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#1 2010-03-12 17:46:06

John
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 2010-01-13
Posts: 18
Website

Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

What a cool resource it would be to develop a library of reference lessons.  Imagine how future generations would cherish teachings from masters who have passed.


"The more necessary anything appears to my mind, the more certain it is that I only assert a limitation." ~ The Book of Lies, Ch. 45 "Chinese Music"

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#2 2010-03-13 23:56:23

Mike Raftery
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-10-25
Posts: 44

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

In line with this idea, do you know of ANY reference lessons available on video now?  All I'm aware of is the Huebner series of video lessons, hoping though to find some more.

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#3 2010-03-14 00:31:32

Mike Raftery
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-10-25
Posts: 44

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

A teacher teaching shakuhachi, hopefully honkyoku. And what does it mean to you, Jon and John?

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#4 2010-03-14 01:57:25

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Jon wrote:

what is a reference lesson in this context?

Put fairly simply, it's something that doesn't exist.

Move along now, nothing to see here......

Last edited by edosan (2010-03-14 01:58:25)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#5 2010-03-14 10:22:45

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3203
Website

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

John wrote:

What a cool resource it would be to develop a library of reference lessons.  Imagine how future generations would cherish teachings from masters who have passed.

I think many of the classes from the various shakuhachi festivals have been recorded. That might be a place to start.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#6 2010-03-14 13:03:03

Matt Lyon
Member
From: North Eastern Oregon
Registered: 2009-06-30
Posts: 92

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Tairaku wrote:

John wrote:

What a cool resource it would be to develop a library of reference lessons.  Imagine how future generations would cherish teachings from masters who have passed.

I think many of the classes from the various shakuhachi festivals have been recorded. That might be a place to start.

I like that idea.

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#7 2010-03-14 15:54:00

mrwuwu
Member
From: Chicago, Illinois
Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 160

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Yes, there is an beginner's instructional DVD for shakuhachi other than Huebner's.    It is offered on Ebay and is a 100% Japanese product,  meaning No English!    However, for those who do not wish a teacher Internet or live,  this will probably get you through a few simple Japanese folk songs and through the fundamental notes and the high ( kan ) octaves.   Most beginners' wish for a close-up image of the basic fingerings and an audio sound matching the note played for musical reference, so here it is.  It also shows a close-up of the teacher's embouchure.  This DVD seems to be a basic How-To for the Japanese beginner.   In this case,  where another thread on the forum explored the Japanese method of teaching mostly by imitation,  you will be unless you can speak a modicum of Basic Nihongo ( Japanese colloquial speak ).   The teacher seems to be a Tozan player and the video and the production quality seems just average,  but I feel it would help most average new players with no other recourse.   The cover has the Japanese characters for Shakuhachi,  dvd produced by Far East Island Record DVD Series, Studio Ongakukan, by Takashi Chino.    A little man in a white dress shirt and black pants up to his chest is playing a shakuhachi in a verdant green bamboo grove on the cover.   ISBN4-925074-87-3      COO73


" You know, it's been three years now, maybe a new teacher can help you? ...... " Sensei

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#8 2010-03-14 16:12:52

John
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From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 2010-01-13
Posts: 18
Website

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Mike Raftery wrote:

A teacher teaching shakuhachi, hopefully honkyoku. And what does it mean to you, Jon and John?

My wording was quirky when I said reference lessons.  What I meant was a kind of long view, not merely a substitute for one on one lessons, but something with the idea of preserving the styles and methods of master teachers for future generations of students to study.


"The more necessary anything appears to my mind, the more certain it is that I only assert a limitation." ~ The Book of Lies, Ch. 45 "Chinese Music"

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#9 2010-03-14 16:35:03

John
Member
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: 2010-01-13
Posts: 18
Website

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

mrwuwu wrote:

In this case,  where another thread on the forum explored the Japanese method of teaching mostly by imitation,  you will be unless you can speak a modicum of Basic Nihongo ( Japanese colloquial speak ).

This earlier thread was what got me thinking about this.  Other threads mention students would sometimes sit and listen to other students sessions with a teacher  to try to further their own studies.   Perhaps I've a case of wishful thinking that a library of such teaching sessions could be built up.


"The more necessary anything appears to my mind, the more certain it is that I only assert a limitation." ~ The Book of Lies, Ch. 45 "Chinese Music"

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#10 2010-03-14 17:47:04

mrwuwu
Member
From: Chicago, Illinois
Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 160

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Hello, John,  It may be wishful thinking.       I work in the film business, and the reality of filming anything is that you need a sole videographer to do that one job.          A shakuhachi student can't learn and play music and tape interesting footage at the same time.        At our three days of Florida Shakuhachi camp, all three days were recorded, but the camera was set up in one corner of the room for each of the whole days. and let run for over thirty accumulative hours.   To even roughly edit this in a watchable presentation would take forever or you have to pay someone a lot.          It would be very boring with no change in camera angles except for the very hardcore shakuhachi enthusiasts,  I guess us.         Not meaning to be negative, it can be done, except someone had better owe you a favor or you have to pay.   Also,  every little moment of three days can be unflattering sometimes, and you may need everyone's permission to be shown publicly without being sued if used in a library format, not You Tube.  I don't think You Tube has a long enough playing time to show anything at length.


" You know, it's been three years now, maybe a new teacher can help you? ...... " Sensei

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#11 2010-03-15 05:23:52

Musgo da Pedra
Member
From: South of Brazil
Registered: 2007-12-02
Posts: 332
Website

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

John wrote:

What I meant was a kind of long view, not merely a substitute for one on one lessons, but something with the idea of preserving the styles and methods of master teachers for future generations of students to study.

I think this preservation is already occuring since the masters (almost all) have students, and advanced students who are getting deep into the teachings.

Anyway, recordings are a way to be certified that after some years, and about some generations before the transmitions, the disciples do not put words over masters words, or sounds over sounds...


Omnia mea mecum porto

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#12 2010-03-15 08:58:56

madoherty
Moderator
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 361

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Musgo da Pedra wrote:

I think this preservation is already occuring since the masters (almost all) have students, and advanced students who are getting deep into the teachings.

Anyway, recordings are a way to be certified that after some years, and about some generations before the transmitions, the disciples do not put words over masters words, or sounds over sounds...

Well stated.

Last edited by madoherty (2010-03-15 08:59:29)

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#13 2010-03-15 20:35:37

Mike Raftery
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-10-25
Posts: 44

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

No, video lessons can not substitute for a teacher; rather, besides supplying a potential means of income for the producers and teachers involved in their production, they could be explications on the finer points of playing.  Imagine if John Coltrane, or Amadeus Mozart had had digital video available within their own homes.  I"m certain they would be a treasure trove of musical knowledge if they were employed for instruction--what a cool resource, I agree!!  Any teachers out there have any digital video equipment nearby?  One last question, why aren't there any of these already?

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#14 2010-03-15 22:57:30

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Mike Raftery wrote:

One last question, why aren't there any of these already?

Because, frankly, it's not a very valid idea. Just sayin'.

Why, I ask you, aren't there heaps of recorded lessons of other classical music traditions?

The only useful way to apprehend those fine points you're referring to is through a one-on-one exchange.


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#15 2010-03-15 23:10:57

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3203
Website

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

edosan wrote:

Mike Raftery wrote:

One last question, why aren't there any of these already?

Because, frankly, it's not a very valid idea. Just sayin'.

Why, I ask you, aren't there heaps of recorded lessons of other classical music traditions?

The only useful way to apprehend those fine points you're referring to is through a one-on-one exchange.

Don't burst their bubble, man!

Anyway Beethoven has announced he's about to start Skype lessons.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc123/Tairaku/beethoven.jpg


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#16 2010-03-15 23:58:49

rpowers
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 285

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

edosan wrote:

Mike Raftery wrote:

One last question, why aren't there any of these already?

Because, frankly, it's not a very valid idea. Just sayin'.

Why, I ask you, aren't there heaps of recorded lessons of other classical music traditions?

The only useful way to apprehend those fine points you're referring to is through a one-on-one exchange.

The problem with Just sayin' is that it tends to discount the value of knowin' or thinkin' before the sayin' happens.

Master classes are very common in classical music training, often in the form of an individual lesson in front of a large audience of other players. The master can pass on technical and philosophical advice to many more people than could ever take individual lessons.

Wouldn't it be valuable to learn what a Heifetz or a Casals or a Segovia is thinking and doing when they perform? They aren't with us anymore, but the videos are out there.


"Shut up 'n' play . . . " -- Frank Zappa
"Gonna blow some . . ." -- Junior Walker
"It's not the flute." -- Riley Lee

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#17 2010-03-16 00:11:07

Mike Raftery
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-10-25
Posts: 44

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

edosan, there are heaps of recorded music lessons available, maybe not all orchestral instruments,  and in just a cursory glance of one page from google I saw an extensive number of instruments being taught via video. 

Can you attempt to describe what is being taught in one to one, it is a non-verbal teaching? Something being transmitted mind to mind.  Is it a zen thing?

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#18 2010-03-16 00:16:37

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Mike Raftery wrote:

One last question, why aren't there any of these already?

You may have noticed, for example, there are a million options for all kinds of teaching materials for guitar because there are millions of people who want to play it. Therefore, a potential for profit. Now let's move down the food chain to saxophones. Not as many people want to play that and there are accordingly fewer products available. Now lets go to the bottom of the food chain to the arcane and esoteric shakuhachi. In short, there ain't no dough in it and nobody is in it for the money. Therefore, few products. Some people may make a living at shakuhachi but nobody started out thinking it looked liked a good way to make money. The closest thing I've seen to what your looking for might be Ralph Samuelson's break down of Hi Fu Mi. Very detailed and helpful but you would still need someone to explain that to you. The things your looking for don't exist because the market is extremely limited.


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

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#19 2010-03-16 00:33:37

Mike Raftery
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-10-25
Posts: 44

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Supply and demand, Jim, no doubt. I'll look into getting a copy Samuelson's video and use it as a cross reference with Huebner's.  Its the new digital age, so who knows what we come down the pipe

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#20 2010-03-16 00:46:46

Jim Thompson
Moderator
From: Santa Monica, California
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 421

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Ralph's breakdown is in print form. No video. It is available in volume  II of the International Shakuhachi Society's Annals.


" Who do you trust , me or your own eyes?" - Groucho Marx

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#21 2010-03-16 02:57:45

Mike Raftery
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2008-10-25
Posts: 44

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

How to guides sound good to me, Jon, that's what I thought you were inquiring about in the first place.  It seems they are no where to be found at this time.  Why horrific decisions? Hyperbole or fear?  Why not the current generation have a chance to study with these masters?

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#22 2010-03-16 03:39:59

Ambi
Member
From: Leeds UK
Registered: 2006-06-22
Posts: 108

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

- a library of lessons - that would be something like this then:
http://www.senzoku-online.jp/traditional/03_shaku8.html
For me better would be interview\lessons along the lines of these Pastorius videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgK5VygLxbc
The dude's long gone but the format of gives an insight into his playing philosophy as well as technique.


"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it."

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#23 2010-03-16 10:47:49

Yungflutes
Flutemaker/Performer
From: New York City
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 1039
Website

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Mike Raftery wrote:

...Why horrific decisions? Hyperbole or fear?  Why not the current generation have a chance to study with these masters?

Hi Mike,
I've wrestled with this for a while now. I offer mp3/video lessons because of my chaotic schedule. If a student can wait a week or two  (or three smile), they can have a lesson that can be viewed over and over again.

See here:

http://www.vimeo.com/10034542

(I inadvertently referred to Tsu as Chi in the middle of the video. It was early smile)

I thought about making them all public, but it doesn't seem fair to the students who paid. I welcome input on this dilemma.


"A hot dog is not an animal." - Jet Yung

My Blog/Website on the art of shakuhachi...and parenting.
How to make an Urban Shakuhachi (PVC)

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#24 2010-03-16 11:34:46

purehappiness
Member
From: Connecticut USA
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 528

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

I sometimes feel money puts too much emphasis on things. Of couse a skype lesson or actually being there would be better but this does help those less fortunate.Just my 2 cents.


I was not conscious whether I was riding on the wind or the wind was riding on me.

Lieh-tzu

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#25 2010-03-16 11:47:07

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Preserving teachings in the age of Youtube

Jim Thompson wrote:

Ralph's breakdown is in print form. No video. It is available in volume  II of the International Shakuhachi Society's Annals.

And unless you have someone to show you how to do it, it's pretty much useless...

       JUST SAYIN'


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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