Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Kiku Day wrote:

Also, as we all know we play a Japanese instrument. Playing shakuhachi in a place far away from Japan via Skype (it seems like most are taking lessons with non-Japanese teachers on Skype) - how connected do you feel to Japan via your activity of shakuhachi playing? I am not insinuating you have to feel connected to Japan when playing shakuhachi. I think the shakuhachi has moved beyond borders as a modern instrument of the world.

I never lived in Japan or other place than in this city in which I live. But the good impressions I got in my soul due to shakuhachi involvement are enough to make me feel conected to Japan by heart. A greatful one.

One can say that since I never experienced shakuhachi or the life in Japan,  I can't know the evil side of shakuhachi world. But then I would say that this is not a side of the shakuhachi world but simply the world from humans.

How many lessons did you take before deciding to switch?

Kiku Day wrote:

Brian P, in your previous experiences did you stop playing the instruments because your teachers weren't able to inspire you? While in the case of shakuhachi you found the right teacher for you - via Skype?

I have never stopped playing an instrument that inspired me.  I don't need an individual to inspire me to continue the pursuit of an instrument but it can help me to progress faster.  It is a shameless plug but only because I mean it.  Chikuzen speaks to my instructional needs very well as he does to many others. 

I have taken "traditional" lessons from good instructors before that suit others perfectly.  I need a teacher who can watch what I do and assess what I am doing and how to correct the problems quickly.  Chikuzen has the ear and the eye to make sure I don't continue mistakes and help me to progress as fast as I am willing to.  I have seen him take players who have been playing wrong for years and correct basic issues that should have been corrected by their original teacher.  Within a day I have seen him correct bad habits that have literally caused years of pain and almost caused one student to quite. 

This is not meant to be a "Jesus healed the sick and fed the hungry" story.  It is actually more geared towards answering the question of why my teacher suits me.  Inspiration is great but I feel inspiration comes from within and if you love an instrument you continue to pursue it and a teacher that suits you  

Brian

Supplementing Skype lessons with in-person lessons has been essential in my experience.  My in-person experiences have been much fewer than Brian's, but have been very important for the reasons that you have mentioned Bas.  One does not get the same sense of the energy used to play over Skype, and if you learn by hearing, like me, then the sound quality over the WWW is not sufficient to get a good grasp of.  However... I have been surprised in what I have been able to hear over Skype... differences in flute timbre, etc.

Further, for me, I find that playing into a computer is a big psychic drain - feels like I am playing into a void (that is NOT a reflection on my sensei!) - for me it feels like playing through a translator almost... and I guess that is what it sort of is.

Luckily, Chikuzen also supplies CDs so that I have that immense amount of information to work from as well- not unlike other teachers from what I have read here.

Last edited by madoherty (2010-04-28 15:28:27)

A bad teacher will be bad in real life and digitally.
A good teacher off-line can be a good teacher online, or a bad teacher online.

lowonthetotem, are you saying that you have not seen a difference between your online lessons on Skype and one in person?  Have you experienced both with the same teacher?

My two cents worth:

1. This has been mentioned but I'll make a stronger case for not over looking the fact that students need guidance when starting out as to how to hold the flute, sit up, how to breath, and some basic embouchure tips. Why this is ignored is baffling to me. Methods for teaching beginners is one of the most under developed aspects of anything to do with shakuhachi. Again and again I come across "advanced" players-people have have played for many years- and even "teachers" who have habits so bad that it retards their ability to develop more or give guidance that makes any sense to beginners. This simply means the development of bad habits. These troubles occur because of a lack of guidance early in the playing stages and could be avoided with some suggestions from the teacher. There are many ways of holding a flute and these differ depending on the type of music you are playing, i.e. solo vs. ensemble, there are also differences in the schools (sects) ways of holding the flutes, and of course, differences in how to hold based on the length of the flute. Using skype, I (a teacher) can give examples of each and show why one is more effective for a certain type of music vs. another. We all have some differences but most shakuhachi players have two hands with several fingers and a thumb or two; a couple lips, some teeth, at least one lung, a vertebrae, etc. My point is that there are enough similarities to offer some very useful suggestions. The student will use these tips and knowledge as a reference when building their shakuhachi playing self/body. Differences will naturally appear as things ultimately will be determined by the difference in finger length, flexibility of the thumb, size of lips, ego, etc., but in most cases, the differences are not so big as to NOT allow the student to try out what is being suggested.  For this, the dialogue and the video aspect are of utmost importance. This dialogue and the fact that you show sincere concern for helping the student from the beginning earns their trust and sets the tone for a healthy relationship. As far as listening again and again, it has already been mentioned that you can record these lessons, and that you have the possibility to really engrain bad habits if they are not caught early on.

2. Like Nyogetsu says, this medium, skype, may be better for some teachers in terms of reaching their objectives. And even though this forum subject started out as an inquiry about efectiveness and experiences of using skype,skype, Nyogetsu has brought up points of difference in his system with skype that allows us to compare and contrast. So, if we chose to branch out a bit with the discussion it may be effective to throw light on the subject from different perspectives. There's a difference of how each sect deals with the pieces that are taught. The way you (Nyogetsu-san) teach on these cassettes, would never work for me. In so called "Dokyoku", I teach the SHIN version of a song first. This is the version where the student and the teacher play what's on the page. This is an objective (and the simplest and most conservative )version of the song, which does not "customize" the song to one's flutes strengths and weaknesses nor the students personalities. This insures the pure transmission of the song in a basic form. When the student begins to develop and after they can play the SHIN version, we move into the GYO version. GYO moves into the realm of the subjective, and begins to take into account the fact that the student is DEVELOPING as a player. GYO is all about starting to "customize" the song to the students strengths and weaknesses and also, of course, takes into account what the strengths and weaknesses of the flute are. There are always three in this relationship: the flute, the player and the song. The student will incorporate many facets of their development in the music as they continue to play and it's the teachers job to view this and and offer supportive feedback. GYO allows this as no song is ever "static. In order to do this, we must be able to talk to each other. Maybe in some sects, one version of the song will suffice, but there's no way one recorded version of a song will work for "Dokyoku".

3. The teacher is able to better impress the sound having both the visual and audio parts working together.

Nyogetsu, please include my camps in your list of available camps next time. I'm hurt immeasurably! They are found on my calendar.

Tairaku, I took lessons with my first teacher, F2F, for six months before I switched to Skype lessons with my present teacher Michael Gould.

Kiku, it wasn't that the technology of Skype over came issues that were occurring F2F it really was just that the way I learned was not a good match for the way my first teacher taught.  Whether it had been on skype of F2F, as a beginner I felt there was very little instruction on how to hold the flute, for example, there was no teaching about how to 'count' the timing but rather strong emphasis on using a metronome, there was an expectation that I could play the phrases completely with one breath which I simply could not do in those early days and a sense of disappointment and even a hint of impatience from my teacher that I was not able to immediately produce the notes in Kan.

Though I felt a strong bond with the bamboo flute, during those early lessons I questioned my ability to progress in learning to play the instrument. When I switched to lessons with Michael Gould, he began by teaching me how to hold the flute properly so as to avoid injury.  He also gave me a lot of information about the history of the flute and basic techniques in a informal manner that put me at ease and inspired me.  His well paced approach gave me lots of time and space to build basic skills and his expectations seemed realistic given my abilities.  Michael has a lot of skill as a teacher, he gives clear explanations, provides a variety of methods to learn and practice a particular technique and offers vivid, often concrete demos that are easy to remember and work well when applied.  Michael is very tuned in to what is happening with regards to the mechanics of playing both in terms of all the variables in the mouth and the physics of air movement to and through the flute.

I continue to make slow progress though I practice diligently every day for at least an hour yet Michael continues in his gentle, encouraging way always seeming to provide just the right method to learn a technique at just the right time.

In my professional life, I too am a teacher and, as such, am no stranger to teaching methods and learning styles.  Sometimes there's a good teacher, by talent and training, that just is a cut above other instructors and when you happen upon a person like that you know you've lucked out and you do whatever you can to become their student whether its travelling for F2F lessons, if and when possible, or meeting via Skype.

Last edited by airin (2010-04-28 19:05:09)

A little late to chime in here. I have had one f2f lesson and two via Skype over the last few years. Living in mostly rural areas there is little to no opportunity to study with a teacher in person on a regular routine basis. Having the opportunity to take Skype lessons is essential me. I am not a good student and I don't seem to retain much from the lesson but feel if I had Skype lessons more frequently the hyper alert nervousness wanting to take everything in and strain to retain kind of experience would diminish. What Ronnie and Perry are doing with the MP3 format lessons has me very interested. I will be speaking to the teacher I took my Skype lessons from about the possibility of something like this:) Thanks Kiku for starting this thread it has been great to read everyone's experiences.

Michael,

Good point that the students need a lot of instruction on such things as holding the flute, posture etc. When I get beginners that's probably at least half the lesson for the first 5 lessons or so. Because you can't build on bad basics.

Which brings me to the question I asked Erin. I was concerned that with the easy access to skype teachers, people might go "teacher shopping" as they frequently do "doctor shopping". Switching teachers (or doctors) before giving them a chance to get results can be counterproductive. For example I think switching teachers after one lesson which doesn't go the way you wanted or expected is silly. Because the teacher is looking much further down the road than what he's showing you this time.

Thanks for the answers.

Hi Chikuzen,

I am so sorry to have omitted your Camps. They seem to be enjoyed by all (including my students) who have gone to them. I highly recommend them !
And I apologize to all others as well that I missed (That is what is wrong with making lists !)

Also, I wish to mention there may be some misunderstandings with my "cyber" method.
I began with the use of cassettes.
This is because there was no Internet back in those days over 30 years ago.
While students still can use cassettes (one still does !), I have been using a system which uses Audacity and mp3s for the past 20 years or so.

edosan wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

Because the teacher is looking much further down the road than what he's showing you this time.

Perhaps, perhaps not. They may also be looking at the clock...

edosan, always keepin' it real!

From a student's point of view, some folks may go teacher shopping.  But I think that this generally happens at inception and once people find someone they can learn effectively from, they stick there, especially if it has taken them a while to find that teacher.  Perhaps some folks may not appreciate the generally difficulty of the instrument and may be unsatisfied with anyone they try, but I imagine they wash out altogether over time, regardless of who they learn (or don't learn) from.

radi0gnome wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

I was concerned that with the easy access to skype teachers, people might go "teacher shopping" as they frequently do "doctor shopping".

While I agree that any teacher a student decides on should be given some time to see if things might start falling into place (I think Airin's 6 months is probably enough), doesn't the teachers offering introductory lessons sort of encourage teacher shopping? I also don't see what the problem is if a student doesn't like the trial lesson and decides to switch teachers, because that is what the trial lesson was supposed to be for.

Teachers offer trial free lessons as a courtesy. I do it also but I wouldn't hope that would be considered a lure to grab other people's students. In Japan usually if you want to switch teachers you have to and the new teacher has to get the permission of the current teacher. Just another cultural difference I suppose.

The practice of taking as many free individual lessons as you can get from different people is probably not the most efficient way of getting somewhere, I might suspect.