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#1 2010-05-16 16:24:08

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
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From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
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Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Those DVD’s look great and I am sure they are well produced.

What gets to me is that so many  performers have been left out of the list. Why? Because there was not enough space? It surely makes sense but on the other hand why  was there a full  DVD used for that Tibetan book of the dead thing as far as I was told this was a separate  show  from the festival itself.

Tairaku, John singer, Al Ramos, Michael Chikuzen Gould and me as well as many other I am sure could have been packed in one DVD instead of only spending a DVD on one subject as it was done. 

This will be my usual self shouting in the void but this reeks of self promotion at the expense of  a group of performers that cam all the way to Australia to contribute to this  event to be left out like this at the expense of  one DVD that could have been used to include all instead  of  how it was done.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#2 2010-05-16 16:57:17

radi0gnome
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From: Kingston NY
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Gishin wrote:

This will be my usual self shouting in the void...

You're actually being heard by too many. Raging discussions about new-age  perspectives of shakuhachi and zen are pretty benign, but this kind of stuff is probably best hashed out offline. That is unless we the audience start stomping our feet demanding a ninth DVD to see our other shakuhachiforum pro friends performances. Is it a possibility?


"Now birds record new harmonie, And trees do whistle melodies;
Now everything that nature breeds, Doth clad itself in pleasant weeds."
~ Thomas Watson - England's Helicon ca 1580

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#3 2010-05-16 19:18:09

caffeind
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From: Tokyo
Registered: 2006-04-13
Posts: 148

Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Gishin wrote:

Those DVD’s look great and I am sure they are well produced.

What gets to me is that so many  performers have been left out of the list. Why? Because there was not enough space? It surely makes sense but on the other hand why  was there a full  DVD used for that Tibetan book of the dead thing as far as I was told this was a separate  show  from the festival itself.

Tairaku, John singer, Al Ramos, Michael Chikuzen Gould and me as well as many other I am sure could have been packed in one DVD instead of only spending a DVD on one subject as it was done. 

This will be my usual self shouting in the void but this reeks of self promotion at the expense of  a group of performers that cam all the way to Australia to contribute to this  event to be left out like this at the expense of  one DVD that could have been used to include all instead  of  how it was done.

Youre totally wrong Gishin. It is simply a matter of limited resources. Five people working sixteen hours a day, four cameras, we simply could not be in all places at one time. Myself editing for the last eighteen months at my own expense. There was a lot going on at the festival, and there were a lot of technical difficulties in post production.

Furthermore, I was only commissioned to shoot the main concerts; anything else that was filmed outside of the main concerts and the three master workshops was supposed to be additional or cutaway footage for a documentary, to augment interviews that I conducted with seven players. What was shot was my choice. In the end the best of that footage was used for the Shakuhachi Champloo DVD, which is simply a collation all the performances I had on tape that were well shot, from the beginning to the end of a piece. There is a lot of other footage with bad lighting, poor sound, only half the piece shot, etc.

The reek is not of self promotion, just the sweat of people who worked hard.

Anyway, all that aside, I think the DVDs turned out really well. There is some really nice footage. Most of the crew were were not so experienced, but I think they did a truly amazing job, and much of the editing came together beautifully. Considering the scope of the project, with every performance a one off chance to shoot, the DVDs turned out better than I expected. Enjoy!

Last edited by caffeind (2010-05-16 19:42:50)

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#4 2010-05-16 19:46:21

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
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From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
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Posts: 612
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Reality IS that no matter what way you want to see it all participants paid their own way to get there which was pretty expensive and time consuming. It should be common sense that when putting DVD’s of the festival ALL people the were listed in the program and performed should be put on those DVD’S.

Here is the list of People that ere not put on  the DVD’S again for what reason? No reasons can justify this.

Now did all those listed people show up I am pretty sure most of them did also lots of big names were left out of the DVD’S at the expense of too much repetition and one DVD made out of a single subject which does not even relate to Shakuhachi itself which wasted lots of valuable playing time that could have shown many other valuable players instead making the set more complete.

Shoji Aoki
Michael Chikuzen Gould
Elizabeth  Reian Bennett
Dr. Robert Foster
Tom Hare
Robert Herr
Tomoe Kaneko
Peter Hill
Ken Kanzaki
Marco Lienhard
Gunmar Jinmei Linder
Vlatislav Matousek
Shunzan Matsushita
Hiromu Motonaga
Anne Norman
Akihito Obama
Alcvin Ryuzen Ramos
Carl Rathus
Brian Tairaku Ritchie
Kaoruko Saijo
Stan Kakudo Richardson
Ned Rothenberg
Shodo Sakai
James Nyoraku Shlefer
Bill Shozan Schultz
John Singer
Ronnie Nyogetsu Reishin Seldin
Daniel Nyoraku Soergel
Ryudo Takahashi
Komei Takamura
Shiku Yano
Reiko Yokota
Sebastien  Gishin Cyr
Kurt Ellenberger
Izumi Fujikawa
Ying Ho
Satsuki Odamura
Haruko Watanabe
HideakI Kuribayashi


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#5 2010-05-16 20:05:26

Priapus Le Zen M☮nk
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From: St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
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Posts: 612
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Nono please don't it is as you said about money and time so don't waste DVD's and a Stamp on this.

I don't matter in all this but it is a shame that so many big names were left out of the recordings the set could have brought so much more than what we see so far.


Sebastien 義真 Cyr
春風館道場 Shunpukan Dojo
St-Jerome, Quebec, Canada
http://www.myspace.com/shunpukandojo

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#6 2010-05-16 20:48:07

Tairaku 太楽
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

OK this argument is not going to get resolved because there are two or more different ways of looking at the situation.

My personal view is that Riley put on the festival and took the financial risk doing so. In exchange he had leadership and the curatorial role. Part of the curatorial role is that he can invite, feature or emphasize whatever he likes. That happened in the festival and it's happening with the DVD's because they are a document of the festival. i.e. things that were featured in the festival are featured in the DVD's and those not......etc.

WSF '08 went to fairly extravagant lengths to include as many performers as possible and extended professional courtesy to a vast number of performers. Too many, in my view. I would have paid for a few of the top people and had the rest come on their own, like at a scientific conference. For example E.O Wilson would get VIP treatment but Dr. Joe Blow presents his paper on his own or with support of his museum or university. That's a model I would use if I was doing it. I turned down a few perks Riley offered me because I thought it was too generous.

With this level of inclusiveness there are a lot of performers. It doesn't necessarily follow that they should or can all be included in the DVD. If that was a condition it would serve as a disincentive to invite that many performers and also strip Riley (or whoever is in the curatorial role) of discretion.

As Lindsay says a lot of people worked their asses off to make anything at all happen. These DVD's will function as a souvenir for those who were there and a document for those who were not. I would have liked to see more of the small scale performances too, because that's where a lot of the best stuff happened but they couldn't film everything. If there is an obligation to film and release everything I suppose that would mean a bigger budget and more expense for the attendees. Maybe for future festivals they should offer an extra level of payment that includes having your performance filmed. Another idea would be to have the DVD's as a commercial thing but supplement them with youtube videos of the performers like Gishin who want to have their stuff accessible.

In the end what's on the DVD is more important than what's not on it. It's great when people follow through on things and there are outcomes, kudos to everybody involved in making these DVD's.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#7 2010-05-18 01:17:47

Riley Lee
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From: Manly NSW Australia
Registered: 2005-10-08
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

I'm happy to see that the WSF08 DVDs are already generating interest!

I suppose this is really where this discussion should be, but I can't help think it odd that the WSF08 DVDs are already in the "Review" section, when no one (at least on this forum) has seen any of them yet. But then, I suppose Gishin is reviewing the covers, which are available for all to see. He and the others who have commented in this thread all have some good points, to which I'll respond asap.

I do have time to explain one thing. That "Tibetan book of the dead thing" (sic) was indeed a special case. The performance and the DVD of the performance was organised and funded differently from the rest of the Festival. The DVD was produced in part because of the relatively large, non-shakuhachi following that the production already has here in Australia. BTW, thus far, this DVD is outselling all others, though I hope the international shakuhachi community will set that figure right soon.

In other words, the DVD was already going to be produced, and so it was included in the complete set of eight WSF08 DVDs. For those purchasing the entire set, in effect this DVD is thrown in free.

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#8 2010-05-18 02:17:12

rpowers
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 285

Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

In addition to  . . . in the between, six of the DVD programs are from events that were, in effect, plenary sessions; they could be recorded in entirety because there were no other festival events to compete with them. To accommodate all of the players that Gishin listed there were usually three to five events going on at the same time. Only part of Shakuhachi Champloo includes any of the smaller venue performances.

I saw lots of (amateur) cameras everywhere at the festival. If you don't like the official release featuring the usual suspects, go underground and start networking (your local Deadhead can explain the process for you).


"Shut up 'n' play . . . " -- Frank Zappa
"Gonna blow some . . ." -- Junior Walker
"It's not the flute." -- Riley Lee

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#9 2010-05-18 02:39:31

Tairaku 太楽
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

rpowers wrote:

In addition to  . . . in the between, six of the DVD programs are from events that were, in effect, plenary sessions; they could be recorded in entirety because there were no other festival events to compete with them. To accommodate all of the players that Gishin listed there were usually three to five events going on at the same time. Only part of Shakuhachi Champloo includes any of the smaller venue performances.

I saw lots of (amateur) cameras everywhere at the festival. If you don't like the official release featuring the usual suspects, go underground and start networking (your local Deadhead can explain the process for you).

Good point Rich, it would have been difficult to record everything when there were 4-5 different venues going at once. Not to mention that everything would have been affected by sound bleed from one venue to the other, not to mention the blowhards who kept hacking out their "licks" and "chops" at the flute sale table, which marred many of the smaller sessions.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#10 2010-05-18 11:19:05

Larry Tyrrell
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From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 2005-11-09
Posts: 73
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Hello,

I'm sorry to say that this is the apotheosis of a shakuhachiforum discussion–lively but empty. If this is to be a discussion of the non-contents of a DVD set that Gishin hasn't seen shouldn't we simply consider this a public meditation on MU with the WSF 2008 as the koan and place it in Miscellaneous.  It might also be better targeted to open a Rant section for this topic. You are being very kind, Tairaku, to consider the original posts 'musing'.  By the way, I'd like to say that Riley Lee, Al Ramos, Michael Gould and Brian Ritchie will not be appearing on my next CD. I'm currently negociating with Anne Norman to see if she will also not appear.  Let's hope this generates interest in my CD.

Ciao,

Larry

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#11 2010-05-18 12:25:20

Lorka
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Registered: 2007-02-27
Posts: 303

Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Larry, I think your analogy is not fair, and a tad silly.

Gishin is not, from what I read, grumbling about the lack of his own inclusion, but lists the names of many top players (such as Michael Gould and many others), and wonders why it is that something could not have been done to document their contributions.  Many of these players forked out thousands of dollars to be there.  So, it seems his question was a valid one.  If you feel the question was satisfactorily answered then great, but your answer, which I can only assume was an abortive attempt at irony, does not contrubute to that discussion.  Next time, perhaps attempts can be made to document the 'less important' performances, whatever those may be.


Gravity is the root of grace

~ Lao Tzu~

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#12 2010-05-18 13:14:50

Rick Riekert
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Registered: 2008-03-13
Posts: 100

Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Larry Tyrell wrote:

this is the apotheosis of a shakuhachiforum discussion–lively but empty

Perhaps because Gishin was "shouting in the void"?


Mastery does not lay in the mastery of technique, but in penetrating the heart of the music. However, he who has not mastered the technique will not penetrate the heart of the music.
~ Hisamatsu Fűyô

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#13 2010-05-18 13:36:44

madoherty
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Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 366

Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

It resonated with me, though, I am an outsider (didn't go to the festival) in this discussion - a possible consumer however.

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#14 2010-05-18 15:21:54

Dun Romin
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From: Holland
Registered: 2008-04-19
Posts: 136

Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

It resonated with me too. I couldn't go to the festival, but I'd love to hear how all those names, you hear/read so much about in this Forum, play and approach the instrument. For that a cd with a big collection of players would have been ideal. But I can respect the given reasons why that could not be so.


Tomorrow's wind only blows tomorrow. (Koji)

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#15 2010-05-18 18:48:36

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Dun Romin wrote:

It resonated with me too. I couldn't go to the festival, but I'd love to hear how all those names, you hear/read so much about in this Forum, play and approach the instrument. .

Many would have videos on YouTube. cool


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#16 2010-05-19 00:23:47

madoherty
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Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 366

Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Dun Romin wrote:

It resonated with me too. I couldn't go to the festival, but I'd love to hear how all those names, you hear/read so much about in this Forum, play and approach the instrument. For that a cd with a big collection of players would have been ideal. But I can respect the given reasons why that could not be so.

A collaborative CD is an excellent idea...
not to move away from Gishin's points mind you.

Last edited by madoherty (2010-05-19 00:25:24)

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#17 2010-05-19 00:50:15

Moran from Planet X
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From: Here to There
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Larry Tyrrell wrote:

I'd like to say that Riley Lee, Al Ramos, Michael Gould and Brian Ritchie will not be appearing on my next CD. I'm currently negotiating with Anne Norman to see if she will also not appear.

So, Larry, I guess this is the answer on my offer to play spoons for Tamuké?


"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I am all out of bubblegum." —Rowdy Piper, They Live!

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#18 2010-05-19 09:15:08

Larry Tyrrell
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From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 2005-11-09
Posts: 73
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Hi Chris,

Correct.

Larry

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#19 2010-05-19 12:19:05

Mujitsu
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From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 884
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

A few of the last posts have been removed. Please keep further threads focused on the topic.

Thanks.

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#20 2010-05-19 17:20:22

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

OK soon you will be receiving your DVD's. I'm looking forward to reviews of what's ON them and hopefully without refernces to what is not. sad


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#21 2010-05-19 17:41:33

Dun Romin
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From: Holland
Registered: 2008-04-19
Posts: 136

Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Ok, smile smile Brian, I'll let you know asap and I'll do my best not to give you a redundant and emotional sonata doing so.


Tomorrow's wind only blows tomorrow. (Koji)

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#22 2010-06-03 19:41:49

Riley Lee
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From: Manly NSW Australia
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 78
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

One of the things really exciting about The Sydney World Shakuhachi Festival 2008 was the large number of shakuhachi players who performed in Sydney, who are NOT known outside of Japan. Many of these musicians can play circles around some of the better known players outside of Japan, the ones, for example, that we hear so much about on this Forum (including me). So, if you've not heard of the people on the DVD, then your shakuhachi experience is in store for some dramatic enrichment (once you purchase the DVDs....)

It would have been wonderful if all of the performers and their performances could have been included on the DVDs. All events were certainly worthy of recording for posterity. To include everyone and everything however, would have meant over 70 hours of DVDs in the set. Yikes! But more to the point, it would have required so many more cameras, so much more editing, more $$, more volunteer labour, more of everything of which there was already not enough.

Yet, if you look at the figures, the representation on the DVDs are better than Gishin makes it out to be. Let me explain.

The list of the players NOT on the DVDs, which Gishin has generously compiled, total, if I counted correctly, 39 names. Of those, 8 or 9 are not even shakuhachi players, but people who accompanied shakuhachi players on koto, piano, etc, or who gave lectures, and so forth.  BTW, of these non-shakuhachi performers in Gishin's "NOT" list, at least 3, in fact, are on the DVDs. "Ari" instead of "nashi", in this case.

So that leaves about 30 shakuhachi players who performed at the Festival, but who are not on any of the DVDs (unfortunately, nashi).

In contrast, there are, again if I counted correctly, 41 shakuhachi players on the DVDs, as well as about 20 non-shakuhachi players or groups, including two choirs. Wow, Lindsay did very well in including that many performers! In other words, there are nearly twice as many performers on the DVDs than are on Gishin's NOT list, and about 60% of all the shakuhachi players who performed at the Festival are (ari) on the DVDs.

Here is a list of the shakuhachi players on the DVDs. They are in no particular order other than the first four, the 'elder masters'. These four might have been the only ones not 'out of pocket', by coming to WSF08. Let me stress, these Shakuhachi Festivals are a labour of love...for EVERYONE!

Reibo Aoki
Kodô Araki
Kawase Junsuke
Kôhachirô Miyata
Kifu Mitsuhashi
Yoshio Kurahashi
Genzan Miyoshi
Seizan Matsuaki
Toshimistu Ishikawa
Véronique Piron
Michiaki Okada
John Neptune
Teruo Furuya
Kazushi Matama
Jim Franklin
Retsuzan Tanabe
Elizabeth Brown
Shôzan Tanabe
Chikuzen Nanba
Riley Lee
Kaoru Kakizakai
David Kansuke Wheeler
Christopher Yohmei Blasdel
Satosi Simura
Junmei Tokumaru
Kuniyoshi Sugawara
Akikazu Nakamura
Hôzan Nomura
Kidekazu Katô
Taizan Kawamura
Ryan Anglim
Lindsay Dugan
Philip Horan
Chôzan Imoto
Kazuhiko Kira
Bronwyn Kirkpatrick
Taichi Miyamae
Marty Regan
Joshua Smith
Justin Williams
Ting Zhang

Though I realise that it's unnecessary for me to explain this, I'll do so anyway, for the record. I am in these DVDs, while so many excellent performers aren't, in part because the Shakuhachi Kenshukan people (who got us a big grant from Japan Ministry of Culture) asked me to perform in a major concert (I think because it was considered 'good form'), and also because Lindsay, as was his prerogative as editor and in spite of my objections, decided to include me.

There are too many good performances on the DVDs to really choose my 'favourite', but one that has to be up there near the top is that of Simura Satosi playing "Takiochi no Kyoku" (Cascading Waterfall) on a shakuhachi so long that he has to use his little finger on his bottom hand to close the lowest hole. The great close ups of his exquisite, dance-like finger movements alone are worth the cost of the DVD!

Lindsay has done a fantastic job of editing the footage taken by the four professional cameras used for the filming. These are as close to professional quality DVDs as they can be, for something made on a 'volunteer basis'. In other words, in my opinion, the DVDs are a far cry from a video clip made in the audience by a small handheld digicam or by a single stationary camera set up at the back of the auditorium.

........................
Which brings me to something that came up earlier in this discussion.

It was always my intention to ask each and every person who attended the Festival to send in photos, audio and video recordings, and any other material that they might have made during the Festival, to be posted on the internet, a la YouTube. As suggested earlier, it is likely that much of the 70+ events (no joke, there were at least that many separate official concerts, recital, workshops, seminars, etc!) held during the Festival, were recorded by someone in the audience.

Alas, the job of contacting everyone, then receiving, collating, organising, editing, and finally uploading 100 or more hours of recordings, and the many hundreds more pics that might exist somewhere 'out there', is a task that I do not wish to take on. Any volunteers?

Seriously, if someone or a group of people would like to try to do this (they would have to speak, read and write English and (keigo) Japanese, or know someone who does who is also a nutter for volunteer work), then I would provide them with the names and contact details of as many people as possible. I would also happily provide an eventual home for all of the material, for example, the still operative WSF08 website, http://www.worldshakuhachifestival08.com/

Alternatively, or additionally, the material could live on the International Shakuhachi Society's http://www.komuso.com website and on the Australian Shakuhachi Society's website, http://www.shakuhachi.org.au  - there are many possibilities!. Once uploaded, all of the collected recordings, etc could be downloaded freely. What a resource that would be! It's not too late; I'm sure most of the digital information is still sitting somewhere on someone's hard drive.

The first thing would be to write a letter in Japanese and English, to be emailed (and in some instances, snail-mailed) to the 'master list'. After that, write and send the second letter, then the third and fourth and fifth letter.....

So - do we have any volunteers with the language skills, the time and the patience?

In the meantime, the DVDs are waiting for you: http://www.rileylee.net/WSF08_DVD.html

Last edited by Riley Lee (2010-06-03 19:43:16)

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#23 2010-06-04 18:38:16

Tairaku 太楽
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From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3222
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Good one Riley, the call for volunteers is always a shrewd move! wink

I got my DVD's so that means others have gotten theirs, let's see some reviews! You don't have to justify yourself Riley, the festival and this DVD set are both massive undertakings and you should just sit back and enjoy the fruit of your labors now.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#24 2010-06-04 22:10:55

math_ferreira
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From: Săo Paulo, Brazil
Registered: 2009-08-09
Posts: 33
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Friends, lets stop complaining and thank Riley and all the staff/volunteers from the WSF08. it's a blessing that we can have this events!!!!

If we want to find what's missing, we will always find something....

Thank you Riley for your wonderful work and devotion to the shakuhachi!


Sound & Silence

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#25 2010-06-04 22:29:07

Larry Tyrrell
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From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 2005-11-09
Posts: 73
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Re: Gishin muses on contents of WSF DVD

Yes, I too hope for a merciful end to this string and to a real and well considered review of the DVD set as it is!

Riley, I agree you really needn't answer to anyone and should be very proud of your contributions to the world of shakuhachi.

Larry

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