Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

Thank you. I'll file away then!

I'm running out of scrap pieces I'm afraid. As mentioned Bamboo is VERY hard to come by in Sweden. I only had one 1.7 meter piece that I was able to get two flutes out of. So.. I only have one more node to practise on, before the next flute piece.

I'm looking for good importers of bamboo here. One has promised me to let me come loot through a big container with bamboo coming in next month. I'll hopefully find some good things there. I also wrote to a company that should be able to ship 210cm "selected tonkin quality" rods of 22-24 mm diameter. I'm hoping alot for them, they're really cheap! About one dollar a piece. But the shipping might be bad. I also found this guy that imports bamboo for asian restaurants. I'll try to borrow a car and drive up to his house and see what he has to offer

I wish there was a Bamboo'R'Us here somewhere. If there was I'd hack utaguchis aaaaaall day long, every day!


Do you just cut by eye? It seemed Perry was very careful with measuring to get the exact angle.

Last edited by Toffe (2006-06-11 14:15:48)

Edosan wins.

That cardboard guide is a good idea, I never thought of that.

If you're really hurting for bamboo, what could we do to help you out? I have a VERY large bamboo shop in town, and they ship. I don't know about to Sweden, lol, but you never know. I don't know too much about this stuff, but I'll help if I can. Do you have a flute right now?

-E

Impossible to tell without seeing them, and I don't have a measurements converter.

-E

My 1.8 is just over 1-3/8", the Yuu is 1.5, and my 2.1 is just under 1-3/8. That is THE thinnest I can see making a shakuhachi: I've seen ones a little thinner, and found them hard to play, and they had weak Utaguchi.

I'd also go for the shortest pieces you can find: this should save on shipping, and you could try and ask for only the lower 3-4 feet of each piece, if they'll do that for you.

The place I buy from always has some near-root in the back that I've used quite effectively. It doesn't have to be root-end, but it sure helps.

How soon are you planning on selling flutes?

-E

Oh, see, don't actually CUT to the guide, just use the guide as where you will end up. Does that make sense? Start much higher than the guide, and take away as you need.

See, I still don't like to use a saw for the first part at all, but I also don't have the best saws in the world. If anything, I cut off a fairly small chunk, just to get started, then sand the rest. I'd suggest getting a small hand sander, unless you LIKE aching hands.

And about getting that crumbling V... what you need to do is start higher above the node and go down from there. The act of placing the utaguchi correctly in relation to the thick part of the bamboo usually results in a better utaguchi. That combined with getting the proper angle will get you to where you need to go.

This will also help result in giving you a better edge to rest your chin on: you'll see what a difference it makes. My first flutes were pretty uncomfortable to play, but my new ones are very nice and comfy.

Take the piece you just messed up and practice cutting and finishing Utaguchi on the other nodes you now have for practice. See how things works out? Just look at these pics, and think carefully about how far above the top node you'll want to cut in order to have enough material to shape your lip area and utaguchi. A half hour or so (or more) of studying the flute and pics and the guide will go a VERY long way in helping you get the shape you desire.

I hope this helps... Do you have a flute now?

-E

I'm an amateur so take my advice with a grain of salt.
I've made probalby 30 shakuhachi with wildly varying degrees of success but what I have found works best for me is to make sure I clean up the node I will be cutting the utaguchi on first. I use a dremel tool with a small sanding drum for this. Make sure that the inside is sanded cleanly and is approximately the shape you want. This will help with gauging how deep to make the cut for the utaguchi and keep you from making a mistake and going too deep.

As far as actually cutting the utaguchi I use a table mounted upright belt sander. It has a firmly mounted rest at the front which I can move to the angle I need and allows me to check progress as often as I need to make sure I don't go too far. The only problem with these is that it is pretty easy to rotate the shaft of the potential flute and get a rounded surface for the blowing edge. These are still playable but it really cuts down on the quality of sound I can produce.




off topic.
As far as making a living selling flutes I cant see how anyone really succeeds. When I add up my time spent on a flute and consider how much I feel they are worth (I am highly critical of myself) I would only make 1 or 2 dollars per hour. Right now I content myself with giving flutes away as gifts and I find the appreciation of the flute worth more than the $75 to $100 I could get for them.
Let me know if you figure out a way to be successfull. I'd love to quit network engineering and devote my time to making and selling flutes.

Two first-class pieces of advice for utaguchi making...

I used a stationary sander once, and I liked it, except that you have to be VERY careful not to over do it, and I didn't have any kind of guide for the bambooo as I did it. It can move around a lot if you're not careful. If I had the machine, though, I'd use it again.

And, personally, I'd say not to use a Dremel until you really get to know what you're doing: again, a power device will go VERY quicly if you're not careful. I'd say use your hands for awhile, THEN go to power tools: that way, you get a better feel for the bamboo and what it wants to tell you. I say learn how they did it back then, use some of those techniques, THEN get busy with modern stuff. I just think that's the best way to get good at making.

On selling... I'm not sure how ANYone makes a living doing this, if anyone does. I suppose, if you had a very small place in the woods and used little to no resources, it could work. That's IF you have the money for the property, that is.   Anyway... I have a friend in Florida that makes flutes for a living on eBay, and I'm not sure how he's making money right now. I'm not sure how many he sells, or what his profit is like or anything, but it works for him somehow. Of course, he's moving to NY to live in some apartment that will only cost him $300/month -- the jerk -- so I guess he doesn't need much.

I wanted to make and sell these, too, but it's kind of a pain for awhile if you aren't an older, experienced maker, because those guys have not only been doing this for awhile, they've also made serious connections and can get bamboo more easily than some of us. I'm not sure if selling flutes is ALL they do, but I assume they have to make SOME money off it to keep doing it the way they do. That's one of the main things about making flutes, in my opinion: if you look at eBay, you'll see Perry's flutes, my friend from Florida's, and one or two others. Except for Perry and my friend Jon (and the occasional awesome flute from Japan), a lot of the flutes you'll see on eBay are, well, not so awesome, just to be nice. There are a LOT of junk flutes out there, and, personally, I don't see a need for such things when there are already PLENTY. I've noticed some pretty amazingly BAD flutes on eBay, and have even wanted to write the guy and talk to him about how to cut utaguchi, or how to bind, or to not claim you're a "Zen Monk" who makes flutes. But I'm a nice guy, and those people will either learn or they won't; it's not my life.

So, I guess you have to think about all the time it takes to GET the bamboo, then how long it takes to make a good flute that you'd actually LIKE to have your name on (what's the point, otherwise?), and how much you think you could really charge. Remember, there are TONS of "hocchiku" flutes out there that are just junk. If you make flutes for sale, my advice is to wait until you've got something good, THEN sell it: the product will hopefully speak for itself, and you'll have better sales, and people won't be upset at the quality of your flutes.

My friend Jon makes mostly hocchiku (out of good timber 'boo) for sale on eBay, and, aside from some utaguchi issues he's since worked out, he has some good quality hocchiku, with thick walls and a solid feel. If I weren't already a maker who can make pretty good hocciku, I'd get one of his. He just made me a custom 2.5 that I can't wait to get. It's one of his first root-ends, and I'm pretty excited about playing it.

I don't know if any of that matters, I'm just babbling. lol.

-Eddie

Last edited by kyoreiflutes (2006-06-13 14:09:50)

You guys are the best!!
I just can't wait to get more bamboo.
By the way is "hocchiku" like... non rootend shakuhachi with natural bore and no utaguchi inlay? Or what does it mean?

Eddie.. first of all. Thank you so much for all the time you've spent answering my threads. You're a great guy and your setting the best example for how a community is supposed to work!
I've learned so much from reading your posts and looking at your flute pictures.

It would be awsome if it was possible for you to help me ship some bamboo from your bamboo-shop.  Maybe it's possible to ship like 4-foot pieces. If you find the time to look into it and if it doesn't some out as expensive as shipping contraband diamonds it would be awsome! But don't go through too much trouble if it's hard to make it.

By the way... I got ny two books from Monty today

"The Japanese Shakuhachi Flute" by Monty and "Kinko Shakuhachi - One Maker's Approach". Hopefully I'll learn something from these books. They seem awsome!
Some good utaguchi instructions i Monty's book.

// Toffe

You really do have to take alot of time getting to know how fast the power tools cut before I would use them on a flute. I have been making other things out of wood for 16 years now so I'm pretty used to it. The dremel tool with the normal sized sanding drum on SLOW speed works wonders getting the Utaguchi shaped right and keeping it symetrical in relation to the bamboo.

I have to admit I did make a few flutes using hand tools when I first started but I have some hand problems that make using manual tools tough to use for too long.

FWIW, filing the utaguchi from the beginning would take forever - you really should carefully use a hacksaw or coping saw to cut off much of the material. Filing from that point takes only a few minutes, even if you work slowly.

Those are excellent saws, edosan. I like Japanese hand tools quite a bit, and it's definately worth it to have hand-made ones, just like with most things I suppose.

What do you do about splintering? It's the main reason I use sandpaper and files, since I have less chance of splintering. (I also do it so I don't over-cut)

-E