Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

nyokai wrote:

Tairaku wrote:

I don't see the advantage of lowering the head slightly and shading as someone suggested because then you add another variable.

Yes, I agree. Finding the exact balance between a little bit of head and a little bit of finger on a tsu chu meri goes into the life's too short category for me. I tell students they can use either just finger or just head -- one or the other might sound better to them.

That "someone" was me.  This has been an interesting discussion.  I'll take it up with Andrew (McGregor) next lesson, to see what he thinks.

Tairaku wrote:

Now if we want to open Pandora's box we can talk about the pitch of tsu no meri. I usually play it a quarter tone or so above D, but I know a lot of people who play Eb.

The whole question of tuning is something I am trying to form a view on right now.  I have tried to deliberately NOT think of the notes in terms of the Western counterparts (or the closest equivalents thereto).  As someone said earlier, the different fingerings are considered as entirely different notes even if the pitches are approximately similar.

This was brought home to me recently when I met a flute teacher (Western classical) who was teaching herself shakuhachi.  We tried to play a couple of tunes together.  When it got to Sakura, I bowed out because I have not yet mastered Tsu no meri.  Her comment was "Oh, that is just Eb - there is an easier fingering for that" and proceeded to show me a cross-fingered version.  I had to explain to her that the character of the meri note is an essential part of the tune - it is not just a matter of getting the pitch right.

Also, I note that Ri on both my shakuhachi is slightly sharp.  Andrew Mcgregor confirmed that he alters the holes on his instruments to bring Ri down to Western concert pitch.

I am not sure on this question at all.  My inclination is to try and learn the Japanese tradition - and if that involves a Ri that is different to C in Western notation, or tsu no meri that is lower than Eb, so be it.  There is nothing sacrosanct about the Western scale anyway.  My electronic tuner is tuned to an equal-temperament scale, which is an artificial construct designed to enable modulation freely among 12 diatonic Western scales - an awesome achievement in itself, but not the only way to do things.  If I was to try to alter the shakuhachi scale by "lipping down" or up, I would probably go for a Just or Natural intonation, but frankly I will be happy just to get a good tone and be able to play the notes so they sound reasonably in tune.

Tairaku wrote:

edosan wrote:

Kurahashi-sensei calls the un-shaded Tsu meri the 'no-finger meri', and he does use it in one Jin Nyodo piece he showed me; forget which one. Perhaps Ajikan.

When we do "Mukaiji" we do the whole piece without shading. It's a nice approach.

This was also the instruction given for Banji (from Koshu-Myoanji).

-Darren.

Despite some wonderful answers that went beyond the original poster's question, I'm thinking that either the question that started the thread hasn't been answered fully or I have a new question. 

Quoting the original poster:

PSTL wrote:

I've been practicing without an instructor for two years. There are none here in NE Florida. My primary focus has been on breath control. I can hold notes very well for extended lengths and make numerous transitions quite well. My notes are pretty clean. I practice using an autotuner.

Curiously, this is exactly where I am at this point in time, except I'm in upstate NY and not FL.

PSTL wrote:

My problem is with "E" or  TSU KAZASHI/TSU CHU MERI. Is there a secret to hitting this note as well as others? I can't seem to transition smoothly to this note. It comes out flat, sharp, or sometimes not at all. Holes 2,3,4,5 are closed, and hole 1 half over (at least this is how I understand it).

To me there are a few parts to this question. One is how to do Tsu Chu Meri, that's what brought me to this thread, I was wondering if it was supposed to have a head tilt. That's pretty much been answered in detail.

Another part of the question is the "how to transition smoothly" part. On one hand you could say that's been answered because there were details on how to get your fingers in the right places more easily, but since PSTL goes on to say "It comes out flat, sharp,..." it brings to my mind a dilemma that I have.

When playing by ear a lot of melodies with these partially-holed notes seem OK to me until I decide to bring out the tuner (which is almost always right now). Then it becomes obvious that when I land on the note it's often sharp or flat. If the note is long enough in duration I have time to bring the note into pitch either by adjusting head tilt, hole-coverage or breath. But on shorter duration notes there is not enough time to adjust.

I've been slowing down all the exercises (I'm working from Tokuyama Takashi's book) in an effort to clean this up, which I'm pretty sure is a good thing, but I'm wondering how much tolerance others give to being slightly sharp or flat. The nature of these head-tilt and/or partially-holed notes is that they are going to be difficult to land exactly in tune. I realize that in a musical context notes that start a little off and are brought into pitch can sound good, but as exercises and strict control of the instrument go, how much slack do shakuhachi players normally allow?

Last edited by radi0gnome (2009-04-15 13:25:48)

chikuzen wrote:

There is a way to do these consistently whether you shade the hole or just use the head. It's just doing the same thing each time. If you do the same thing each time, i.e., have the same head angle, same direction of the breath, same finger position, sit up the same way, same air speed, etc.,  you'll get the same results. If you like the results just keep doing it. If you don't, change something. This is just PRACTICE! Work it out. It'll happen.

Thanks for the detailed answer, Chikuzen. That's 5 different variables you listed and then you added an "etc"! That's a lot of things to possibly go wrong and mess up the pitch, but I guess that's why they call good shakuhachi playing "good" shakuhachi playing.

I'm kind of surprised that I haven't seen this topic discussed in the forum more often. But, I guess it's understandable because the way I stumbled upon it was that I got a flute with a sharp Chi, or in actuality a slightly flat Ro that progressively gets sharper until you get to the Chi that's sharp. I thought it would be a good idea to break out the tuner and get the beginning exercises in the Takashi book, the ones without meri's or partial-covered holes, in tune. All went well until I got to the kazashi and meri section where I realized there was no way I could have ever been playing those notes in tune with any flute. If I got them to land even within 20 cents of the note I considered that pretty good. Some might consider that close enough, and I guess it kind of is because I can't really see a beginner getting hung up on it, but it sounds a whole lot better when those notes are landed right on.

What's the kanji and/or katakana for 'kazashi'? (For making notes on scores...)

Zak

But that ain't kanji or katakana...

The kanji (+ okurigana) for kazashi would be 翳し or 翳シ, but in my limited experience with shakuhachi scores it's more commonly written all in katakana: カザシ.

No-sword wrote:

But that ain't kanji or katakana...

The kanji (+ okurigana) for kazashi would be 翳し or 翳シ, but in my limited experience with shakuhachi scores it's more commonly written all in katakana: カザシ.

D'OH!! I see what he was asking now. My bad, sorry.

lowonthetotem wrote:
Etenraku is a good piece to practice Tsu Chu Meri, at least the first and maybe the second sections.


...as is the (relatively) easy sankyoku piece Kongoseki. Very beautiful tune, too.