Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

amokrun · 2006-08-09 06:35:05

When I play, I tend to keep the blowing edge quite close to the opening between my lips. The natural consequence of this is that roughly the bottom half of the end of the flute touches my face. Nothing I've read on the subject went into details on how this should be done optimally. The way I do it works for me in most cases. I can easily enough play most easy notes and they come out quite clear.

The problem with the way I do it is that tilting the chin tends to cause the flute to sort of tilt along. Every tip I've read on the subject explicitly mentions that you should try to keep the flute at the same position and just tilt your chin. In my case, this is nearly impossible unless I tilt the flute slightly as well. I can make the pitch vary and blow, for example, tsu chu meri by simply tilting my head. Still, I'm not entirely sure if the lowest tilt I can manage is low enough in all cases. There simply is no room for the flute to stay in exactly same position if I tilt my head from my normal position.

Thus, here's the question. When you play and tilt your head, how do you avoid moving the flute along with you? Are you supposed to keep a small distance between the end of the flute and you chin or is there some other way to ensure that the flute stays still when you move your head? All of my attempts ended up being either completely unplayble, very uncomfortable or physically impossible.

edosan · 2006-08-09 09:27:40

• First point: It's not clear to me what you mean when you say the flute 'tilts' when you drop your chin (ie, and just how that is a problem), but when anyone drops their chin for a meri note, the flute will move: it should pivot slightly around the point where the finger and thumb of your lower hand grasp the flute.

• Second point: It is almost a given that, as a beginner, you are playing flat. This is because it takes some time (and attention to proper pitch) to develop an airstream which is focused enough to enable a good, clear sound that is at the correct pitch. Before this is achieved, it is common to keep the opening in the lips close enough to the blowing edge to get a decent sound, but it's likely to be flat. I don't know what length shakuhachi you are playing, but I suggest you take some time to check your pitch. You can do this with a digital or analog tuner, or with an in-tune piano.

If the flute is a 1.8, check the pitches of all the basic notes, working from Ro (D) upwards (F, G, A, C, respectively). If you need help figuring the pitches on a different length flute, reply here.

This process is likely to be frustrating, because IF you are playing flat, bringing your pitch up (and this is one area that good teachers will harp on constantly...), the clarity of your sound will drop off, and it'll be a while before it gets better again as your embouchure develops.

Once you get your pitch up to where it should be, you will have much more 'down' available to you in getting to your meri notes.

Watching this video of Andrew MacGregor playing shakuhachi may be helpful to you.

With an experienced player, the movements which accompany meri notes can be quite subtle because, in addition to dropping the chin, subtle changes occur in the embouchure and the direction of the airstream to get the meri note.

eB

Last edited by edosan (2006-08-09 15:35:19)

amokrun · 2006-08-09 15:18:55

edosan wrote:
First point: It's not clear to me what you mean when you say the flute 'tilts' when you drop your chin (ie, and just how that is a problem), but when anyone drops their chin for a meri note, the flute will move: it should pivot slightly around the point where the finger and thumb of your lower hand grasp the flute.

The real question was more or less whether or not that is a problem. I've read from various places that one should watch out and not tilt the flute along with your chin since this naturally leads to the blowing angle staying more or less the same. However, I don't see how it would be possible to not move it at all. From your answer, I get the feeling that you are supposed to tilt the flute to enable your chin to move for as long as the angle is correct. This was the answer I was after. It must be one of those things that are obvious once you know it but rather confusing if you aren't sure.

edosan wrote:
If the flute is a 1.8, check the pitches of all the basic notes, working from Ro (D) upwards (F, G, A, C, respectively). If you need help figuring the pitches on a different length flute, reply here.

The pitches I get are mostly correct for all basic notes. The easier notes that require covering holes partially and such are also mostly correct. I spend a fair bit of time with a tuner, so the notes that I can play to begin with are correct most of the time. My meri notes are still usually off, especially if I play them as part of a song or otherwise jump to them suddenly. And yes, the flute is 1.8 long.

Anyhow, thanks for the reassurance on the tilting. Apparently the way I have been trying to do it isn't entirely wrong at least.

edosan · 2006-08-09 15:34:08

amokrun wrote:
Anyhow, thanks for the reassurance on the tilting. Apparently the way I have been trying to do it isn't entirely wrong at least.

I think you may be on the right track; you just need to do these things a few thousand more times (), and get some face time with a teacher (I think the Gunnar suggestion is good one, if you can pull it off). These things are 'obvious once you know but rather confusing if you don't'--but hey, what isn't. It's always easy if you know how...

In case it's not clear to you already, what is happening when you tilt your head down to play a meri note is that you are decreasing the size of the opening between your lips and the blowing edge. This causes the pitch to drop, the same as it does when you partially cover any of the other five tone holes on the flute. This opening is, in effect, a 'sixth hole'.

I hope you've been able watch the video of Andrew MacGregor playing. Very illuminating.

eB

Last edited by edosan (2006-08-09 15:37:32)

amokrun · 2006-08-09 15:40:50

edosan wrote:
In case it's not clear to you already, what is happening when you tilt your head down to play a meri note is that you are decreasing the size of the opening between your lips and the blowing edge. This causes the pitch to drop, the same as it does when you partially cover any of the other five tone holes on the flute. This opening is, in effect, a 'sixth hole'.

I have a fair idea of what happens in there. I have been playing around with different things to get a feeling for different things. I could somewhat play with the pitch by adjusting my mouth while keeping the flute still. What I was mostly worried about is that by slightly tilting the flute as well as my chin, I'm simply compensating for something that should be done in a different way. The thing I learned in iaido is that it is very easy to find an alternative way to do something that seems to work much better, until you realize that the way you do it simply seems like it works when it fact it does not.

edosan wrote:
I hope you've been able watch the video of Andrew MacGregor playing. Very illuminating.

Yeah, I think I have seen it before at some point as well. Since I originally couldn't find anyone anywhere nearby who could give some pointers, I instead tried to find as many online resources as possible. Not the same thing, but at least you aren't forced to guess.

pablo63 · 2006-08-30 01:44:03

This TECHNIQUE section is wonderful. Following the requests & the response is truely a precious resourse for a old new comer. I'm trying for release all preconceived notion waiting for my first lesson tommorrow. As I mentioned in my indroduction entry, the first time I attemped a shakuhachi a long beautiful tone was created (it took a few minutes) . I have no expectations after reading thru much of the entries in this forum for tommorrows lesson. Oh, I have the notion the teacher will not be WOWED by any of my efforts. The night I found that wonderful note on an acquaintences student 1.8, and fell madly in love with the tone, I used about the same embrochre as if on a Boehm & released breath using a Sudarshan Kriya (yoga of breath). It may not work tomorrow...& as Micheal Valentine Smith said, "I am only an egg"

Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

#1 2006-08-09 06:35:05

Beginner question on tilting chin.

#2 2006-08-09 09:27:40

Re: Beginner question on tilting chin.

#3 2006-08-09 15:18:55

Re: Beginner question on tilting chin.

edosan wrote:

edosan wrote:

#4 2006-08-09 15:34:08

Re: Beginner question on tilting chin.

amokrun wrote:

#5 2006-08-09 15:40:50

Re: Beginner question on tilting chin.

edosan wrote:

edosan wrote:

#6 2006-08-30 01:44:03

Re: Beginner question on tilting chin.

Board footer