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#1 2006-08-24 21:28:28

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Hello everyone,

I'm interested in researching how non-Japanese players of shakuhachi are currently learning traditional Japanese music pieces.  If I can get enough data I'd like to publish something in an ethnomusicology journal.  In the last few years the number of shakuhachi players outside Japan seems to have really taken off... on this forum alone there are almost 300 members.  In Japan I believe that most people still learn the traditional way through private lessons with a shakuhachi teacher or master who represents a certain school, whether it is Kinko, Tozan, Meian, Chikuho etc. (though even this may be gradually changing).  Outside of Japan, qualified teachers are less readily available and people may be supplementing the odd lesson with self-study or even learning mostly on their own with the help of videos, DVDs, Internet sites, going to an occasional workshop, or may be pursuing something like distance learning.  I'd like to research how the Japanese music is being transmitted, taking into account the traditional teacher/student relationship but also trying to factor in technological developments and their influence, for example, the ready availability of instructional DVDs and videos, and the relatively easy accessibility of notation and recordings on the Internet.  My questions may not be completely focused as yet but if you wouldn't mind taking a few minutes and giving your own information about how you are learning traditional shakuhachi pieces, I would be extremely grateful.  As this is a shakuhachi forum, some other players may be interested in this kind of information so if you  like you could answer the following questions on the forum or if you would prefer your personal information not to be made public, you could send the information to my e-mail address at ribbled@gmail.com.  The accumulated data will only be used for a research article (and perhaps a presentation if I can get some statistically significant information; I'm basically interested in the numbers and would like to have as many people as possible answer these questions).  What I'm interested to know is the following:

1.  What kind of traditional pieces are you learning?  (please specify whether honkyoku, gaikyoku, minyo, early twentieth century -- such as Miyagi Michiyo's Haru No Umi, Fukuda Rando's pieces etc., or some combination of the above )

2.  How long have you been learning or playing traditional Japanese music (of any kind)?

3.  How are you learning the pieces?
(Please use the following categories; or if you have suggestions for additional ones please tell me)

_____A.  regular private lessons with a shakuhachi teacher.  (if possible, specify how often -- once a week, twice a month etc.)

_____B.  an occasional lesson with a shakuhachi teacher supplemented by a lot of self study.

_____C.  with assistance from other shakuhachi players

_____D.  attending shakuhachi workshops or festivals 

_____E.  distance learning with a teacher by mail, through tapes etc.

_____F.  distance learning with a teacher over the Internet.

_____G.  largely on my own through books, scores recordings ordered from shakuhachi websites selling the above, such as Monty's Tai Hei, shakuhachi shop Mejiro etc.

_____H.  largely on my own from scores and recordings downloaded from Internet sites.

_____I.  a combination of G and H.

If you are learning from a combination of these ways, try to give a rough percentage figure for each if possible.  Thank you very much for your help.  Happy Blowing!

Last edited by Daniel Ryudo (2006-08-24 21:33:09)

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#2 2006-08-24 23:32:37

nomaD43
Member
From: Portland, OR, USA
Registered: 2006-07-22
Posts: 96

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Daniel Ryudo wrote:

Hello everyone,

1.  What kind of traditional pieces are you learning?  (please specify whether honkyoku, gaikyoku, minyo, early twentieth century -- such as Miyagi Michiyo's Haru No Umi, Fukuda Rando's pieces etc., or some combination of the above )

My primary interest is with honkyoku, though have practiced several folk tunes early on. My main focus has been Kyorei (since my first lesson), though I am now trying to re-learn Mukai-ji, and Sashi.

2.  How long have you been learning or playing traditional Japanese music (of any kind)?

I first began studying around 1992-3 with David Duncavage (student of Yoshio Kurahashi and Ronnie Seldin), I studied for nearly a year before he moved out of Massachusetts. Several years passed before I reconnected with David after he moved back to Massachusetts. I then studied another 6 months to a year at which time I moved to Georgia (2000). Since this time I have not had any lessons and little practice. I have just recently taken up practicing again, without a teacher this is very difficult.

3.  How are you learning the pieces?
(Please use the following categories; or if you have suggestions for additional ones please tell me)

_____A.  regular private lessons with a shakuhachi teacher.  (if possible, specify how often -- once a week, twice a month etc.)

_____B.  an occasional lesson with a shakuhachi teacher supplemented by a lot of self study.

_____C.  with assistance from other shakuhachi players

_____D.  attending shakuhachi workshops or festivals 

_____E.  distance learning with a teacher by mail, through tapes etc.

_____F.  distance learning with a teacher over the Internet.

_____G.  largely on my own through books, scores recordings ordered from shakuhachi websites selling the above, such as Monty's Tai Hei, shakuhachi shop Mejiro etc.

_____H.  largely on my own from scores and recordings downloaded from Internet sites.

_____I.  a combination of G and H.

___X__J. on my own attempting to remember lessons from 6-10 years ago, using sheet music collected from my teacher at the time.

If you are learning from a combination of these ways, try to give a rough percentage figure for each if possible.  Thank you very much for your help.  Happy Blowing!

Daniel, I hope this information is helpful to you. If you have any other questions, I would be very happy to answer them for you.
Damon

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#3 2006-08-26 01:02:58

evan kubota
Member
Registered: 2006-04-10
Posts: 136

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

1. Minyo like you find in most basic texts, and starting to work on honkyoku.

2. About four months.

3. Mainly I, with some learning from the Huebner DVD.

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#4 2006-08-26 14:12:26

Bogert
Member
From: Amagasaki-shi, Hyogo-ken
Registered: 2005-12-05
Posts: 203

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Hello,

1.  What kind of traditional pieces are you learning?  (please specify whether honkyoku, gaikyoku, minyo, early twentieth century -- such as Miyagi Michiyo's Haru No Umi, Fukuda Rando's pieces etc., or some combination of the above )

Right now I'm learning mostly honkyoku.  On my own I have also been learning some contemporary pieces and I have have studied many minyo pieces in the past.

2.  How long have you been learning or playing traditional Japanese music (of any kind)?

Well I guess two years or so, but with a teacher about 6 months or so.

3.  How are you learning the pieces?
(Please use the following categories; or if you have suggestions for additional ones please tell me)

__X__A.  regular private lessons with a shakuhachi teacher.  (if possible, specify how often -- once a week, twice a month etc.)

In the first part of my shakuhachi playing the first year and a half I just played on and off on my own.  I didn't get very far that way.  I had studied with Larry Tyrrell once every to weeks learning minyo for about 3 months.  Now I'm taking lessons with James Hunter every week learning some honkyoku.  I have been studying with him for around 3 months too.  I'm leaving for Japan in three weeks to study with Yoshio Kurahashi for awhile.  Then after that I'll see, hopefully I can stay on with the same teacher for awhile.
       
                                                                                                                Chris Bogert


理趣経百字の偈
菩薩勝慧者 乃至尽生死 恒作衆生利 而不趣涅槃 般若及方便 智度悉加持 諸法及諸有    一切皆清浄 欲等調世間 令得浄除故 
有頂及悪趣 調伏尽諸有 如蓮体本染 不為垢所染    諸欲性亦然 不染利群生 大欲得清浄 大安楽富饒 三界得自在 能作堅固利

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#5 2006-08-26 23:38:57

nomaD43
Member
From: Portland, OR, USA
Registered: 2006-07-22
Posts: 96

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Bogert wrote:

I'm leaving for Japan in three weeks to study with Yoshio Kurahashi for awhile.  Then after that I'll see, hopefully I can stay on with the same teacher for awhile.

Kurahashi-sensei is a wonderful teacher, very warm, generous, open, and speaks English well. I have had a number of lessons with Kurahashi-sensei in Massachusetts before moving to Georgia.
Best wishes,
Damon

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#6 2006-08-30 23:31:02

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Thanks very much, Damon, Chris, and Evan, for your information.  In addition to learning from DVDs and Internet, I think that in the West we have this new phenomenon of the traveling shakuhachi master, people like Kurahashi sensei, who visit various countries and cities and give lessons and workshops, maybe somewhat similar to the wandering komuso but covering much more territory.

Last edited by Daniel Ryudo (2006-08-31 00:20:30)

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#7 2007-01-08 20:55:15

evan kubota
Member
Registered: 2006-04-10
Posts: 136

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

I got back from Japan last week where I studied briefly with a local player who is also a kendo-ka. He was Tozan-ryu, which is apparently more prevalent in the central/western area where I was located (Hyogo prefecture). I had to quickly learn some basics of Tozan notation, which isn't that different but required some time. He also gave me a wealth of CDs and scores, some of which are for Tozan honkyoku that I was totally unfamiliar with. His instrument is a Seppo 1.8 that he generously let me play for a few minutes - wonderful sound and easy playability. I also received a PVC 1.8 made from black pipe. The bore diameter seems different than our 3/4" or 1" Schedule 40, and it has a mellow tone.

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#8 2007-01-08 23:15:42

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

good for you man.
I am planing to go in Japan after a year..

G

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#9 2007-01-09 07:37:36

Harry
Member
From: Dublin, Ireland.
Registered: 2006-04-24
Posts: 221
Website

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Dear Evan et al,

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the Huebner DVD?

Regards,

Harry.


"As God once said, and I think rightly..." (Margaret Thatcher)

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#10 2007-01-09 07:46:48

KenC
Member
From: Western Massachusetts
Registered: 2006-01-05
Posts: 75

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Daniel,

I started with simple Minyo tunes (Koga's book).  I'm presently working on Rokudan to play with Koto and other shakuhachi at a Feb new year celebration and gathering of players. I'm excited but nervous.  My first honkyoku piece will be shortly forthcomming i hope. 

I started playing in Feb of 2005 on my own from Koga's book and CD. Soon after i located a teacher nearby.

I played on my own for about 3 months.  Then I was very fortunate to find a teacher only 20 minutes from my home.  I see her pretty much on a weekly basis for an hour at a time.  She studied with Nakajima Seizan. The quality and progress of my playing was definately improved after seeing a teacher.  I consider myself very,very fortunate to have one so close by.

Ken

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#11 2007-01-09 08:51:30

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Harry wrote:

Dear Evan et al,

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the Huebner DVD?

Regards,

Harry.

Bruce Huebner, an American expat living in Japan, and a fine shakuhachi player, has produced an instructional DVD for learning
Kinko shakuhachi, with an emphasis on Gaikyoku/Sankyoku. Probably available on Monty Levenson's shakuhachi.com.

eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#12 2007-01-09 09:03:40

Harry
Member
From: Dublin, Ireland.
Registered: 2006-04-24
Posts: 221
Website

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Thanks Edosan,

I checked that out, its on Monty's catalogue.

BTW, I like the quote at the bottom of your mail... I'm afraid I'll have to steal it like a good little sheep!

Regards,

Harry.


"As God once said, and I think rightly..." (Margaret Thatcher)

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#13 2007-01-09 19:24:24

evan kubota
Member
Registered: 2006-04-10
Posts: 136

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

The volume I have is actually for honkyoku. There are others targeted at sankyoku.

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#14 2007-01-13 02:56:02

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Ken,

Thanks for your information.  Good luck and gambatte with the New Year celebration with koto and with your first honkyoku piece.  I just happened to be teaching the first three sections of Rokudan to a shakuhachi student earlier this afternoon.  Last month I played played Rokudan in a concert where two of the shakuhachi players played the usual shakuhachi part while two others played a kaede version; the trick is not to be distracted by the players playing that other part.  I'll be playing along with a koto group for their yearly recital next weekend, a gaikyoku piece called Matsu No Kotobuki, and then next month have Cha No Yuu Ondo at another recital, also in honte and kaede parts.

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#15 2007-01-13 08:32:57

KenC
Member
From: Western Massachusetts
Registered: 2006-01-05
Posts: 75

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Daniel,

Your post is actually timely.  I was talking with my teacher after our recent lesson and conversation drifted towards where Shakuhachi is headed in the states. There is sooo much oppprtunity and choice of direction for those studiying this great instrument..  Even for myself. i find myself attracted to so many pieces and types of playing.   It will certainly take this lifetime to explore even a few of them.

The opportunities for those near large metropolitian areas is often pretty good.  For so many players that are too far away from those pockets with teacher availability, the various modes for studiying and the use of technology are of great benefit to those in that situation.

Best wishes and blowing,

Ken

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#16 2007-01-14 19:49:17

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Daniel,

Here ya go. Good luck on getting published. I just mentioned it to my girlfriend Julia, who is in an Ethnomusicology class now.

1.  What kind of traditional pieces are you learning?  (please specify whether honkyoku, gaikyoku, minyo, early twentieth century -- such as Miyagi Michiyo's Haru No Umi, Fukuda Rando's pieces etc., or some combination of the above )

-  I'm mostly interested in Honkyoku, as far as traditional pieces go.

2.  How long have you been learning or playing traditional Japanese music (of any kind)?

-  Roughly 3 years now, although I had been familiar with various pieces over the years.

3.  How are you learning the pieces?
(Please use the following categories; or if you have suggestions for additional ones please tell me)

G & H.

I'm hoping that I can at least get a few lessons in this year, as I feel as though I'm fading from the flute right now. I think some lessons would help energize me. I just have to get the money together.

Hope that all helps.

-Eddie


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

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#17 2007-01-15 02:56:44

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Eddie,

Thanks for your info.  I'm trying to get as many shakuhachi players as possible to answer the questions so that I can get some statistically significant information.  I don't really know how many shakuhachi players are out there in countries other than Japan.  Yes, it might be a good idea to have a few lessons; I find that  after a period of playing with other players I get a rise in my shakuhachi energy level...for example, doing a three day workshop once a year in Bisei really does wonders for my playing; for the few weeks following, at any rate...

Last edited by Daniel Ryudo (2007-01-15 02:57:31)

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#18 2007-01-15 11:18:09

dstone
Member
From: Vancouver, Canada
Registered: 2006-01-11
Posts: 552
Website

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Hi Daniel.  Here are my responses.

1. Honkyoku.
2. Just over 2 years.
3. "A" (private lessons: averaging bi-weekly, aiming for weekly), and "D" (workshops: once or twice a year).

Good luck on your study and publishing it!  It will be interesting to plot the landscape of students.

-Darren.


When it is rainy, I am in the rain. When it is windy, I am in the wind.  - Mitsuo Aida

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#19 2007-01-15 11:25:13

mrosenlof
Member
From: Louisville Colorado USA
Registered: 2006-03-01
Posts: 82

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

1) mostly sankyoku, with infrequent visits to honkyoku pieces, I have an interest in Minyo, but no formal instruction to date

2) Shakuhachi, 10 months.  In silver flute study, I've had sheet music including some 19th, 20th century Japanese music for a few years (more popular than traditional), but no formal instruction on them.

3) private lessons, twice a month, 50 minutes each time.  One multi-day workshop to date, planning another in June.


Mike Rosenlof

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#20 2007-01-15 15:00:44

abarefootboy
Member
From: by the river .. under the pine
Registered: 2006-02-18
Posts: 12
Website

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

I must constantly use my tsuyutoshi to dry the moisture behind my ears.

1.  Minyo, the Japanese flag raising song,  Danny Boy and five dans of Rokudan so far but then it gets going so fast and my fingers don't know where to go and my ear/mind shorts out.  Next week  sensie promised we get to start on Haru no Umi.

2.  I have been studying with sensei James Hunter in Spokane for 8 months.  I feel fortunate to have such a good teacher here in this barbarian land where even the word " Buddha" is rarely heard in public places.

3.  I attend weekly group lessons with 5 other beginning students.  After we drink homemade wine and play our shakuhachi's like old crazy japanese jug band ensemble from an isolated beach village located somewheres in the early 10th century.  Sometimes I try to figure out passages from shakuhachi CD's.  Sometimes I blow bird song to the pygmy nuthaches that come to see what all the commotion is about.  Sometimes I drink too much fine oolong and get to feeling all powerful and blow hot fat prayers to Coltrane then fall in bed and listen to the wind play ancient sad melody through the pine.


“A single night of love is better than a hundred thousand years of sterile meditation."
                                                                                                                                Ikkyu

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#21 2007-01-16 00:33:46

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Thanks, guys.  Good luck with that last dan, bare foot boy.  I liked the image of the Japanese jug band ensemble in an isolated beach village.  I once played in a jug band that only performed in an elevator going up and down ten floors in a university classroom building; we had trombone, wooden/flute/recorder, bongos, harmonica, and a one string washtub bass, and could fit in four or five riders along with the band.

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#22 2007-01-16 18:08:24

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Oh, Dan, that sounds awesome. I love elevator acoustics. That's one reason I've always wanted a good-sounding portable recorder that I can just whip out and work with. There's an old Resevoir north of me that has a natural 45-second reverb, but good luck trying to get any real equipment down there. It's underground, and scary, but several friends of mine have made recordings there, and they're always amazing. I simply MUST take a shakuhachi down there sometime. Sometime this year I'll buy a Tablet PC and one of those USB mics. That way, I have a handy light to work with. wink

Barefootboy... do you live in Spokane proper? I'm sorry. wink  Where did you ever find these other shakuhachi players in that god-forsaken land? If you're ever near Seattle, let's meet up and play over at St. Mark's Catherdral. Wowee.

-W


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

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#23 2007-01-17 02:40:49

abarefootboy
Member
From: by the river .. under the pine
Registered: 2006-02-18
Posts: 12
Website

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Kyoreiflutes ... I live east of the city along the Spokane River where it tumbles ice cold and gray out of Idaho.

Nearly half the members of our shakuhachi class are sumi-e refugees.  We who must live amongst the heathens cling for our very life to these short staves of bamboo ... which  buoy our spirits and quiet our hearts.

I will be sure to find you when I next visit Seattle ... be forewarned however ... my repetoire is sufficient only to charm and woo the pygmy nuthatch.


“A single night of love is better than a hundred thousand years of sterile meditation."
                                                                                                                                Ikkyu

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#24 2007-01-31 14:26:26

Ambi
Member
From: Leeds UK
Registered: 2006-06-22
Posts: 108

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Hi Daniel.
B and I suppose H for me.
Been playing 8 months (somewhat obsesively). Managed 3 lessons which have helped a great deal - the only Honkyoku I play are the 2 I've had lessons on HiFuMeCho and HonShirabe (or wouldn't even have a clue how to read the scores!) - But I also practise just blowing alot and use computer stuff for self checking (Shaku8 autotuner is great and I use audacity to record and review what I've done with ears & eyes).
Maybe immersion listening to Mp3 player at work also helps get the "feel" lodged into me.
Cheers Ambi


"The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it."

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#25 2007-02-02 02:08:48

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: How are you learning traditional Japanese music pieces?

Hi Ambi,

Thanks for your info.  I'm still working on Honshirabe myself; it's a good piece.  Gambatte.

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