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#1 2006-11-01 20:59:49

amokrun
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 413

How old were you when you started playing?

I'm rather curious as to when those of you who have been playing for years got started with shakuhachi? This topic came up when I was talking with someone about how young you need to be to start something in order to become good at it. Although I haven't seen or done any kind of research on this, it seems that it's not that uncommon for western shakuhachi players to start at older than 20. Personally I got my first shakuhachi at the age of 21, although I had done some research before that. I'm rather curious if that is more or less than the average age at which people outside Japan usually begin to play.

Thank you for your time.

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#2 2006-11-01 23:37:28

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

amokrun wrote:

I'm rather curious as to when those of you who have been playing for years got started with shakuhachi? This topic came up when I was talking with someone about how young you need to be to start something in order to become good at it. Although I haven't seen or done any kind of research on this, it seems that it's not that uncommon for western shakuhachi players to start at older than 20. Personally I got my first shakuhachi at the age of 21, although I had done some research before that. I'm rather curious if that is more or less than the average age at which people outside Japan usually begin to play.

Thank you for your time.

I started at 35. I don't think it matters at all when you start if you apply yourself to it.

The advantage of starting young on shakuhachi is that you don't have your own personality and might be more willing to submit to the will of your teacher. That is a good way of transmitting information.

I find that I learn things much faster at my age (45) than I did when I was 20-30. It takes less practice. Recording takes less time.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#3 2006-11-02 14:39:00

JF Lagrost
Shihan/Tozan Ryu
From: Paris (France)
Registered: 2006-10-19
Posts: 73
Website

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

I think students shouldn't start too early on shakuhachi : there are often problems with children under 7 because the utterance of a sound requieres a minimum of concentration, precision and patience they often don't have. Playing the shakuhachi is not like playing the piano, and if the tempo of work is too slow when starting, the improvements risk to stay too slow. If there is an ideal age to start on shakuhachi, I think it would between 9 and 12. It's better to start later and improve faster. But of course there are exceptions, and you musn't frustrate a child who really wants to start.

I started on flute at 9 and on shakuhachi at 24. My students are between 35 and 63. Young people in France (under 20) don't know shakuhachi, but I hope this will change with the developpement of the practice in France (I work for that !) Japanese often start on shakuhachi when retired on pension.

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#4 2006-11-04 16:26:29

James
Member
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: 2005-12-03
Posts: 23

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

amokrun wrote:

I'm rather curious as to when those of you who have been playing for years got started with shakuhachi?

I started taking shakuhachi lessons when I was 41. (I'm now 47.)
However, I started taking silver flute lessons when I was 10, which gave me a head start.

Learning an instrument as an adult seemed a lot more effective than as a kid. I knew what I wanted and how to work for it. Almost liberating in a way.

James

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#5 2006-11-04 17:37:32

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
Website

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

amokrun wrote:

I'm rather curious as to when those of you who have been playing for years got started with shakuhachi?

I started shakuhachi at age 28. (I'm 46 now) I don't know if it matters or not when one starts.

Ken

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#6 2006-11-04 20:55:48

shaman141
Member
From: Montreal, QC.
Registered: 2006-02-02
Posts: 154
Website

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

I'm not a teacher/pro but I figured no one would mind if I shared my story. I started playing at the age of 23, and I feel that there was no better time for me to start than at that age. I have been playing music since i was about 13 years old, kind of moving from instrument to instrument, exploring different types of music and so on.

I think one of the most, if not the most important thing about playing shakuhachi is coming into contact with the people that will inspire you to push forward and overcome the difficulties that come with learning the shakuhachi. There are three main people so far in my life that have provided me with the inspiration to focus and practice, and continue to do so to this day: Perry Yung, who was there when I first discovered the shakuhachi, to give me advice and insight, as well as provide me with wonderful shakuhachi to grow with:), Alcvin ramos, who's passion for every element of the  shakuhachi pushes me to reach new levels of playing that seemed impossible at first, and Bruno Deschenes- who's in depth knowledge of everything regarding the shakuhachi(and essentially any other type of music for that matter) seems never ending-as well as the person I first took lessons with, and who is responsible for me first experiencing the intense beauty of the shakuhachi and koto.
Sincerely,

-Sean.

Last edited by shaman141 (2006-11-04 20:56:13)


Find your voice and express yourself, that's the point.

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#7 2006-11-22 08:59:58

changjc
Member
Registered: 2006-11-20
Posts: 12

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

I satrted playing shakuhachi at age 17, and I am 59 years old now.
I don't play zen music.
Instead, I play Japanese "enga" (i.e. Japanese pop music, especially very old pop songs).
Also I play Taiwanese songs.
I enjoy playing "enga" using shakuhachi very much.

- changjc

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#8 2006-11-22 11:57:39

nyokai
shihan
From: Portland, ME
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 613
Website

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

I started playing when I was 24. Took lessons for two years, then moved away to where there was no teacher. Practiced on my own a few years, then my flute broke and I couldn't afford a new one, or at least believed I couldn't. Didn't play for many years. Started taking lessons again when I was 43. I'm 53 now.

I have a student who started with me when he was 13 and a student who started with me when he was 75, as well as everything in between. It's all good. Under 30 are less stubborn but over 50 have a sense of death.

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#9 2006-11-22 14:34:01

rpowers
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 285

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

nyokai wrote:

Under 30 are less stubborn but over 50 have a sense of death.

Hmmm . . . I suppose that's better than the stench of death.

Last edited by rpowers (2006-11-23 01:40:34)


"Shut up 'n' play . . . " -- Frank Zappa
"Gonna blow some . . ." -- Junior Walker
"It's not the flute." -- Riley Lee

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#10 2006-11-22 15:13:16

Harry
Member
From: Dublin, Ireland.
Registered: 2006-04-24
Posts: 221
Website

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

I started playing when I was 33. I'm now 32... nah, that's not right.

I started when I was 33 and I'm still 33. That is actually not a 'Zen statement'.

I'm presently cultivating my sense of death. We used to call it a 'mid-life' crisis and treat it with sports cars and younger women. Thank the gods for *relatively* cheap flutes!

Regards,

Harry.


"As God once said, and I think rightly..." (Margaret Thatcher)

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#11 2006-11-22 17:00:43

Medit8b1
Member
From: N. Waterboro, ME
Registered: 2006-06-23
Posts: 19
Website

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

I started Shakuhachi lessons about 5-6 months ago at age 33. I am now 34. I am taking lessons from Nyokai, and I am one of the "stubborn" 30-50 year olds he is reffering to. I have been a musician on one instrument or another since age 15, and I've found it can bring allot of baggage to learning the Shakuhachi.

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#12 2006-11-24 00:43:01

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

I started playing shakuhachi at age 31 on a pvc pipe flute.  I gave it up nine months later after moving house and changing jobs but then found a cheap bamboo shakuhachi in a Japanese traditional musical instruments' shop three or four months after that, started back with lessons again, and have never stopped.  I don't think it particularly matters when one starts; a consistent practice should allow one to continue to progress at any age.  I am 50 now.  Starting early can't hurt, though as Lagrost mentioned, there may be some optimum age range for beginning the shakuhachi.  Last week I met a young Japanese professional shakuhachi player (age 28) who performed a concert of mostly bossa nova music with an acoustic guitarist; he had been a student of former national living treasure Yamaguchi Goro and had started the shakuhachi at age 11; his playing was extremely smooth and seemingly effortless though I'm sure he had put in plenty of playing time...

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#13 2007-01-29 16:47:29

Rick McDaniel
Member
Registered: 2007-01-08
Posts: 29

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

I was 60. I will be 62, soon.

Rick

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#14 2007-01-29 18:03:39

Ryuzen
Dokyoku (Daishihan); Zensabo
From: Maderia Park, BC, Canada
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 104
Website

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

I started at age 21. Playing for 16 years. I doesn't matter what age you start. It's the quality of practice that counts. There are many people who've been playing for well over 30 years and (some even have a shihan) and can't play very well (according to some standards). Then there are those who have been playing under 10 years and play at a very advanced level (according to some standards).......The benefit to starting young is that you have more time to enjoy the shakuhachi!

Alcvin


I live a shakuhachi life.

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#15 2007-04-30 21:47:22

shawn_rackley
Member
From: Saint Louis MO
Registered: 2007-04-11
Posts: 4

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

Started At 14 took lessons for 2 years then stopped lessons. im now 26 and suck smile
shoulda stuck with lessons.


Shawn Rackley

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#16 2007-04-30 23:48:56

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

shawn_rackley wrote:

Started At 14 took lessons for 2 years then stopped lessons. im now 26 and suck smile
shoulda stuck with lessons.

BRAVO! big_smile


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#17 2007-05-03 00:31:06

Jeff Cairns
teacher, performer,promoter of shakuhachi
From: Kumamoto, Japan
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 517
Website

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

Takegawa wrote:

There are many people who've been playing for well over 30 years and (some even have a shihan) and can't play very well (according to some standards). Then there are those who have been playing under 10 years and play at a very advanced level (according to some standards).......
Alcvin

This deviates a bit from the topic, but these are interesting questions that Al brings up.  Al, are you suggesting that there are varying and various standards for measuring excellence on the shakuhachi that are discrete but unrecognizable to the uninitiated?  If so, I have a couple of questions: Are these varying standards based on the same criteria for judgement?  How did these varying standards come about?  How does a person as a learner, who doesn't have the capacity to judge the judge, know that they are getting the best they can (learning the right way) when choosing a teacher or mentor if the only thing they have to rely on is what others say combined with their own gut feeling(your suggestion that  a shihan lisense doesn't amount to the same thing across the board?)  This last question relates to your statement that 'quality' of practice matters rather than quantity.
It's been my observance that the world of the shakuhachi player learning outside of the traditional methods that evolved in Japan and indeed physically outside of Japan,  is rife with situations that push the boundries of the traditions, thus also the standards that are used to judge accomplishment.  After the formation of ryuha defining methods of transmission here in Japan (very much an evolutionary process,) there was very little intermingling of standards.  When the shakuhachi moved outside of Japan, a lack of consistant availability of teachers meant that learners had to take what they could get, and often without respect to traditional(Japanese) school boundries.  As a consiquence, a hybrid seems to be developing.  So, how are these 'hybrids' to be judged even casually (because it doesn't seem unreasonalbe to assume that there will be or are people in a teaching position who can legitimately be of this hybrid situation?)  Again we are confronted with this evolutionary process.  Do we let evolve yet another standard for judgement of excellence on the intruement, or do we look at what exists and find common ground that suggests excellence across borders, boundries and lines?
As you know, it's not uncommon for a kinko player to be able to read and play tozan pieces.  It's less common for a tozan player to learn kinko scoring and play kinko pieces, though pieces originally written in kinko have been transposed into tozan for the 'newer' player's benefit.  There are players who can and do read several types of notation to play music on the shakuhachi.  There are some who never play traditional Japanese music on the shakuhachi at all due to their circumstance.  Should we be looking at the formation of a 'meta' ryuha (standard of transmission) in order to solve any problems of recognition that might exist?
Sorry for all the questions and I certainly invite any discussion from anybody.
cheers
Jeff


shakuhachi flute
I step out into the wind
with holes in my bones

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#18 2007-05-03 22:17:26

KODOAN.COM
Member
From: NORTH BEND, OREGON
Registered: 2007-01-16
Posts: 24
Website

Re: How old were you when you started playing?

16

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