Mujitsu and Tairaku's Shakuhachi BBQ

I think ragas would be kind of tough with just 5 holes. Indian scales are full of microtones and are tough enough with the 6 hole bansuri flutes. Maybe a 7 hole shakuhachi would work OK, or maybe a normal shakuhachi in the hands of a master. The only reason I feel somewhat qualified to tackle this question is because I'm familiar with some Turkish scales on ney, they have lots of microtones too, and I can't get them to transfer to shakuhachi.  Even the scales that are almost equivalent to some western modes are tough on shakuhachi.

On second thought,  I wasn't answering your question and only provided discouragement. I didn't mean to do that. By all means, explore it. It would be interesting to hear from others who have went the same path. Isn't there an Indian scale that is close to the Western diatonic scale? I can't even get a decent diatonic scale on shakuhachi. Close, but after stumbling through it a few times I decided that although it's possible, the instrument wasn't designed for it. One of the most impressive things I've seen along those lines was a Mongolian throat singing teacher play a few stanzas of a Mozart sonata on a 6 hole simple flute virtuosically. I guess when you get good at an instrument almost anything is possible.

There are some ragas like bhupali that are pentatonic and are easy on shakuhachi. Some of the other scales are similiar to the Japanese insempo-e.g. Re-chimeri-rimeri-ha-ro-tsumeri-remeri-re is the bhairav scale with 4 sets or semitone intervals.

Monty sells some good introduction guides to raga. There is also the excellent Raga Guide with 4CDs from Nimbus.

Thanks, those are great links, now I'm certain this is wroth learning.   

The Indian forum link works, just try it again.  Sometimes it says Internal sever error or something to that effect, not sure why.

One thing non-traditional music does well for shakuhachi playing is getting the player used to all sorts of fingerings that are not used very often in classical shakuhachi music.  For instance the first time I even ran into re meri was in Nagara no Haru, before that I had never used it (as far as I can remember at the moment).  With most any western piece that note is used regularly.  Also tsu no chu-meri, although used more often, is a regular sight in more western music.  Not only that but some of the note combinations take a bit of getting used to.
Indian music is the same way.  Lots of rare notes and note combinations rarely used within classical shakuhachi playing. 
In my very humble opinion, with no formal music training besides the shakuhachi, I think branching out can only help advance a shakuhachi player. Learning difficult passages can only better a players control of pitch and fluidity.  It also allows for the player to integrate techniques from different musical traditions to see what works.

In my mind no music is inherently harder to play on the shakuhachi than any other, some just takes more getting used to.  Honkyoku integrates all sorts of difficult techniques and fingerings that just take lots of practice, same as any classical western music, but of course different at the same time : ) 

Well that is my thoughts.  I e-mailed Mr. Tim Hoffman to see if he can give me any help with the raga playing.  I will share any hints he gives me for those interested.  It seems he wrote a book on the topic.   I'll have to check that out too.

radi0gnome,
      Oh sorry, I didn't mean to put you on the defensive.  No worries about "discouraging remarks", because it is difficult.  You were just saying it like it is : )  It just takes lots of work.  If everything was easy it would get boring pretty fast.  I guess I missed the circular breathing discussion.  I have heard people do that with the shakuhachi.  That's a pretty good accomplishment, even if it comes naturally for you.  You could certainly develop an unique style with that addition.

Oh, and like it said if I get any hints for raga on the shakuhachi I'll let you'll know.

Tim says the raga scales are easier to play than the insempo scale we use most of the time for traditional music.

philipgelb wrote:

Someone stated they cant play a diatonic scale with a 5 hole shakuhachi. Keep practicing! It is not that difficult if you put the dedication to it. Shakuahchi is capable of playing all 12 notes of the western octave and any microtone found in other musical forms. Just a matter of learning to hear and then finding the geography of the shakuhachi to make it work.

Hi Phil, that was me that mentioned about the diatonic scale on shakuhachi. I could keep practicing it, but I didn't really like the direction it was leading. After the diatonic scale, the next step was obviously western melodies, and I thought my practice time would be better spent elsewhere because the sound I'm going for isn't playing top 40 on shakuhachi. As far as getting all 12 notes on the shakuhachi (and all the microtones in between), I realize it's true, but doesn't  the constant mention of it perpetuate a bit of a misconception? As it is, although it's possible to play early Western classical music on a keyless transverse flute, the reason they started adding keys was to make it easier to play the newer, more chromatic music the composers were coming up with. So even though with enough dedication you can play the music with shakuhachi, it's not what shakuhachi is good at, and that would be sliding through the chromatic scale.

In general,  different instruments evolved or are favored to meet the needs of the different music. A silver flute for newer classical music, baroque flute for baroque music (one of Robert Dick's arguments for saying all silver flutists should learn circular breathing is that longer baroque passages were written for barque flutes that required less wind), Irish flute with the larger finger holes for Irish music, and so on. It's not that you can't cross with good results, examples are Galway's Japanese album, Joannie Madden playing Irish music primarily on silver flute (I find this amazing because I quit silver flute and learned Irish flute for Irish music because I thought the keys were getting in the way), and a number of people who use silver flute for Indian music, some who play bansuri flute too so I take it that they know what they are doing. Maybe shakuhachi works with East-Indian music because it's so easy to slide to the microtones.

wow!! i almost missed  this discussion on the Ragas and Shakuhachi.....
Look out  for John Kaizan Neptune's CD titled " Steps in Time"
He has played different Ragas on his Shakuhachi by collaborating with a couple of Indian Classical Musicians....
The accompaniments include: Violin, Mridangam- -both playing classical Carnatic Music and Bass, Guitar for accompaniments......the songs are played great on the shakuhachi....especially the tracks Saraswati, MAking the waves and the title track Steps in Time.....

Try to get hold of the CD...it is on Amazon...or at Neptunes Website.......
Best of luck
Shashank

Sweet thanks.  I have seen that cd, but didn't know it had that on it. 

"Alas, the book he wrote is in Japanese.

eB"

Yeah, although my Japanese is still rather weak I will get it (whenever I have some money that is).  I'm moving to Japan in about a month or so : )
                                                                                                                    Chris