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#1 2005-12-07 22:10:21

mikesonnier
Member
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 4

Information About Hole Placement

Hello, I am new to this forum. I have been visiting alot of web sites and have communicated with Mr. yung.
He advised me to join forum. I am starting to make flutes , the oriental side blown, and bamboo sax`s, and pan pipes. I am so intrigued about tha Shakuhachi, i want to make one so bad. But i cant find any info about the five hole location for the Shakuhachi. Can anyone help? Please.

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#2 2005-12-07 23:07:12

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Information About Hole Placement

Hello, mikesonnier,

Here is a place to start: It's from the website of Kinya Sogawa, a good maker and performer in Japan. Both links apply to the making of a PVC shakuhachi (1.8 length), but the dimensions will be close for a bamboo flute as well--the application of the dimensions to bamboo will vary depending on the size of the bamboo bore--PVC has a fixed bore size.

Here is the simplest approach:

http://www.fides.dti.ne.jp/~sogawa/englishpagepvc.html

And here is a more complex approach:

http://www.fides.dti.ne.jp/~sogawa/engl … ther%20way

Hope this helps,
eB


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#3 2005-12-08 23:35:23

mikesonnier
Member
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 4

Re: Information About Hole Placement

Thank you Edosan. i will try the pvc first before i mess my first one up.

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#4 2005-12-08 23:37:06

mikesonnier
Member
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 4

Re: Information About Hole Placement

Edosan, will the same princible of the pvc pipe work on a root end, or is it better for the non root end?

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#5 2005-12-09 00:58:46

John Roff
Member
From: South Africa
Registered: 2005-10-21
Posts: 50

Re: Information About Hole Placement

Hi Mike

I use a minor pentatonic ratio from Nelson Zink's website, at: http://www.navaching.com/shaku/scale.html
It is a useful website - not the last word on Shakuhachi making, but useful. I make the holes slightly closer to the mouthpiece, depending on how big I want the holes.

Ken Lacosse's pages are also very helpful. That's a pdf file available on his website.

I hope you enjoy the experience of making the flute - I found it quite wonderful and magical making my first one (out of old irrigation pipe)

Cheers

John


'Concepts create idols; only wonder grasps anything.' - Gregory of Nyssa

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#6 2005-12-09 14:33:16

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Information About Hole Placement

Mike...

In your case, tuning is tuning; you're not going to get perfect results your first time, but you'll get really close. I had to go through a few flutes before I got it, but it's easy now.

If you have Microsoft Excel, I have a type-in formula that my girlfriend made for me...you just plug in your length in either CM or inches, and it tells you where to put the holes. It's based off of a formula in Ken LaCosses' PDF, which is essential (I think) for flutemakers without much in the way of local resources. I made this flute using some eBay-bought bamboo and Ken's PDF, aling with a few hints I picked up along the way (thanks again to Ken for hosting):

http://mujitsu.com/images/eddie2.jpg
http://mujitsu.com/images/eddie3.jpg
http://mujitsu.com/images/eddie4.jpg
http://mujitsu.com/images/eddie5.jpg
http://mujitsu.com/images/eddie6.jpg
http://mujitsu.com/images/eddie7.jpg

I used his formula, along with the 1.8 Yuu I had next to it, and it turned out PERFECTLY. It's so in pitch that it makes me cry. wink

Basically, though, using PVC or bamboo doesn't matter much, as far as holes go. Of course, the bigger or smaller your inner diameter, the more it'll affect pitch. All you have to do then is to change your length to adjust, if possible. You could also just do some bore work, which really isn't all that hard, unless you're using Ji, of course. Otherwise, though, it seems to be more time-consuming than anything else.

Just do things the way you're "supposed" to for a couple of flutes, and then go off from there if you desire. Once you learn the rules, then you can break them.

Good luck!

-E


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

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#7 2005-12-09 15:41:55

edosan
Edomologist
From: Salt Lake City
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 2185

Re: Information About Hole Placement

mikesonnier wrote:

Edosan, will the same princible of the pvc pipe work on a root end, or is it better for the non root end?

Mike,

I'm not the last word on this, but consider: Root-end bamboo culms, by their nature, produce a bore that is more or less tapered, becoming narrower toward the root end. A non-root end piece of bamboo generallly has a parallel-shaped bore, more like the pvc pipe.

The tapered bore will make some difference, if you use the pvc dimensions to make a root-end shakuhachi.

On the OTHER hand, tone-hole placement is not super-critical, due to the nature of the shakuhachi, as opposed to an end-blown flute with a fipple (like a recorder or penny whistle, for example).

eB

Last edited by edosan (2005-12-09 15:42:33)


Zen is not easy.
It takes effort to attain nothingness.
And then what do you have?
Bupkes.

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#8 2005-12-10 22:26:45

mikesonnier
Member
Registered: 2005-12-07
Posts: 4

Re: Information About Hole Placement

Thanks everyone. You all have beeb helpful. I did make one out of pvc, and it sounds good. i am interested in Kyorieflute reply about a formula for the lenght and hole location. Please e-mail me at  balcon5@msn.com
thank you all
mike

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#9 2005-12-19 11:42:18

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 865
Website

Re: Information About Hole Placement

Sigwada,

Here is the link to the PDF flutemaking file.

http://mujitsu.com/howtomakeshakuhachi.pdf

In the file, there are hole measurements for a 1.8 shakuhachi. (These are on the photo of the flute) These work ok for tapered bore shakuhachi. They are a little flat if used for PVC or other straight bored tubes, so you have to adjust some.

There is also a formula for differenct sizes. You have to adjust chi and ri slightly with this formula. This way, it forces one to recognize and learn some of the concepts of tuning.

Ken

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#10 2009-01-14 18:35:27

Taldaran
Member
From: Everett, Washington-USA
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 228

Re: Information About Hole Placement

Being a complete beginner, I have used both websites to build my first PVC Shakuhachi, and using Nelson Zink’s tables, made them in different keys, and all of them turned out very well, and the tuning was very close. Or I should say that they sound close enough for a green player like myself.


Christopher

“Whoever can see through all fear will always be safe.” Tao Te Ching

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#11 2009-01-14 19:13:14

Austin Shadduck
Member
From: New York, NY
Registered: 2008-09-21
Posts: 38
Website

Re: Information About Hole Placement

I don't know much about shakuhachi making, but I have made two from PVC. For my first one I used Kinya Sogawa's instructions. This flute didn't come out quite right (in part because the tools I used were not in metric and my conversions may have been off, and in part because I cut the mouthpiece at an unusual angle). For my second flute I used the following blueprint:

http://www.konkle.com/shakuhachi/make_shakuhachi.html

This one came out nearly dead on pitch. I cut the mouthpiece at the angle used in the Kinya instructions and I left off the "rings to enhance sound." Perhaps I am wrong but the rings seem to be for aesthetic purposes.


“His first, last and only formal instruction for me was embodied in one word: observe.” -Billy Strayhorn on Duke Ellington

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#12 2009-01-15 06:39:24

purehappiness
Member
From: Connecticut USA
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 528

Re: Information About Hole Placement

Thanks for the link. I am new too to this art and will be making a PVC shakuhachi soon.

Thanks


I was not conscious whether I was riding on the wind or the wind was riding on me.

Lieh-tzu

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#13 2010-03-05 19:53:20

Itamar Foguel
Member
From: Israel
Registered: 2009-09-13
Posts: 120
Website

Re: Information About Hole Placement

I got a problem latly with non root end pieces,
if i use the measurement formula for the hole placement of the pvc shakuhachi on a non root end bamboo it comes out really out of tune..its kindof frustrating actually....

Could someone shed me some light on the subject? any tips?

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#14 2010-03-06 06:08:04

Toby
Shakuhachi Scientist
From: out somewhere circling the sun
Registered: 2008-03-15
Posts: 405

Re: Information About Hole Placement

Really out of tune how? Note to note? long-tube to short-tube? Octaves?

Toby

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