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#1 2005-10-07 09:43:29

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
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Jazz/rock/improv

Just to get the outside tradition forum started, does anybody know of shakuhachi players using the instrument in jazz, rock.....or bluegrass? Links and descriptions would be nice.

I will start by mentioning that there is a famous picture of John Coltrane playing the shakuhachi (with atrocious posture, bad boy) shortly before his death. If anybody has that could you please post it?


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#2 2005-10-07 17:40:22

Mujitsu
Administrator/Flutemaker
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-05
Posts: 885
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Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Train
http://www.mujitsu.com/images/coltrane.gif

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#3 2005-10-10 14:13:56

peteross
Moderator
From: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 34
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Re: Jazz/rock/improv

I believe Yusef Lateef also played the shakuhachi and maybe Sonny Rollins.

PR

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#4 2005-10-10 17:57:49

jeff jones
Member
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 113
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

I also read somewhere that John Cage studied some with Watazumi but I don't think he wrote anything for Shakuhachi, also AACM member Douglas Ewart


Beauty is ugly at rest

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#5 2005-10-17 00:34:05

billyboy
Member
From: Toyooka Mura, Nagano Ken, Jap.
Registered: 2005-10-15
Posts: 5

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Since you asked for players using the Shakuhachi in Jazz, rock, and bluegrass...
There's Brian Ritchie of course! John Neptune and Bruce Huebner also spring to mind.  John I think needs no introduction.

Bruce's band Candela have  a web site here http://www.candelatokyo.com/e/index.html
Other members include Robert Belgrade who is a gifted percussionist and multi instrumentalist.

By PAUL BAYLIS, The Asahi Shimbun (Feb 27, 2002)
SHAKUHACHI in JAZZ?
Talk about jazz and which instruments come to mind? The trumpet, of course, the bass, the saxophone, drums and piano-but the shakuhachi?
This traditional Japanese bamboo wind instrument is more closely associated with Zen meditation and samurai movies than with the chaotic,innovate-or-die world of jazz. Indeed, in many respects, the shakuhachi would seem an anathema to jazz. But take this simple instrument and its distinctive sound, surround it with talented jazz musicians and at the very least, something original is bound to result. Which is exactly what Candela - a five-man Tokyo-based eclectic jazz combo is doing.
''I'm trying to make a new vocabulary for the shakuhachi based on the traditional ornamentation and see if I can make something new in jazz,'' said Bruce Huebner, Candela's shakuhachi player and the first non-Japanese to graduate in Japanese Music Performance from the prestigious Tokyo National University of Fine Arts and Music. ''Some people say, `Isn't it like having your hand tied behind your back?' Yes, but that forces you to create your own voice,'' he said.

''One of my philosophies has been to let Japanese people see their instrument out there in the world making music, not because it's Japanese, but because it's good,'' said Huebner.

All things in moderation... especially moderation!
Bill

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#6 2005-10-21 16:54:41

Derek Van Choice
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From: Lake San Marcos, CA
Registered: 2005-10-21
Posts: 99
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Re: Jazz/rock/improv

May be a different sort of improv at times, but I believe David Zasloff is using a shakuhachi in some of his comedy routines, as well as other industry compositions.

http://www.davidzasloff.com
http://www.shakuhachi.com/R-Shaku-Zasloff.html

smile

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#7 2005-10-28 12:30:20

philipgelb
Chef, musician, teacher
From: Oakland, California
Registered: 2005-10-08
Posts: 135
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Yusef Lateef never played shakuhachi though he does play numerous wind instruments on a VERY high level. Sonny Rollins? I never heard of him playing any kind of flute but that would be most interesting. Cage did not study with Watasumi though he greatly admired him, apparently Watasumi did not admire Cage that much.  Cage did compose a flute solo part for his piece "Ryoanji"  that i and numerous other shakuhachi players have performed. And from what i heard from the flute player it was composed for (Bob Aitken), Cage had shakuhachi in mind for that piece but did not think anyone would perform it so he put flute on the cover page instead of shakuhachi. Apparently Cage was fine with any kind of flute playing the piece and Aitken premiered it on a wooden, side blown flute.

as for bluegrass, i once found myself on stage with Peter Rowan's group along with Mike Marshall, Dave Grisman, Daryl Anger and a few others. Quite a fun experience but i did not pull it off too well.

The Coltrane photo always intrigues me! Could Alice be sitting on some tapes of Trane actually playing shakuhachi? That would be something to hear!!!!

although i have not released a full length solo CD, my solo performances often include pieces by Ornette, Ellington and Coltrane.

phil


Philip Gelb
shakuhachi player, teacher & vegetarian chef
Oakland, CA
http://philipgelb.com  http://myspace.com/philipgelb, http://myspace.com/inthemoodforfood

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#8 2005-10-28 13:55:25

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

philipgelb wrote:

Yusef Lateef never played shakuhachi though he does play numerous wind instruments on a VERY high level. Sonny Rollins? I never heard of him playing any kind of flute but that would be most interesting. Cage did not study with Watasumi though he greatly admired him, apparently Watasumi did not admire Cage that much.  Cage did compose a flute solo part for his piece "Ryoanji"  that i and numerous other shakuhachi players have performed. And from what i heard from the flute player it was composed for (Bob Aitken), Cage had shakuhachi in mind for that piece but did not think anyone would perform it so he put flute on the cover page instead of shakuhachi. Apparently Cage was fine with any kind of flute playing the piece and Aitken premiered it on a wooden, side blown flute.phil

Thanks for mentioning it Phil, I love that piece. I am familiar with the version for trombone that James Fulkerson did. Do you have the flute score? I'd like a copy.

And since you mentioned Yusef Lateef, his book is amazing, if baffling at times.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#9 2005-10-28 16:21:42

rpowers
Member
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2005-10-09
Posts: 285

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Tairaku wrote:

Thanks for mentioning it Phil, I love that piece. I am familiar with the version for trombone that James Fulkerson did. Do you have the flute score? I'd like a copy.

And since you mentioned Yusef Lateef, his book is amazing, if baffling at times.

The score for Ryoanji (published by Peters) shows 16 pages of graphic representations of pitch contours plotted over a timeline. Cage derived the contours from tracings of the stones in the temple garden at Ryoanji in Kyoto.

From the instructions to the performer:
"The glissandi are to be played smoothly and as much as is possible like sound events in nature rather than sounds in music. Any multiphonics that happen unintentionally are welcome. The dynamics, not given, are to be soft rather than loud, as a rule, a rule that has exceptions."

Rich


"Shut up 'n' play . . . " -- Frank Zappa
"Gonna blow some . . ." -- Junior Walker
"It's not the flute." -- Riley Lee

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#10 2005-11-21 13:46:59

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

I have to say, there aren't too many musicians I've heard play "other" shakuhachi music better than yourself, Brian. What I've heard from Shakuhachi Club is amazing, and I really should get that CD sometime. I do wish you'd play a little when you're out with the Femmes...the last time you were in Seattle (Woodlawn Park Zoo), I almost made a little sign saying "Hello, Tairaku", but my girlfriend made me realize, and rightly so, how silly that would be. wink I did manage to catch you playing Conch, which really blew everyone away; I can only imagine how it would sound if you pulled out the shakuhachi and did some Improv with it.

I do wish that Coltrane had done some recordings, but he was probably just getting into it, and I'd assume that he'd want to become a better player first. Too bad for us, though.

-E


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

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#11 2005-11-30 02:05:09

Kiku Day
Shakuhachi player, teacher and ethnomusicologist
From: London, UK & Nørre Snede, DK
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 922
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Brian, I will send you a copy of Ryoanji for flute. I did the piece for my thesis recital at Mills. Joelle Leandre, who did the contrabass version gave me some very good advice on it!

Kiku


I am a hole in a flute
that the Christ's breath moves through
listen to this music
Hafiz

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#12 2005-11-30 08:06:36

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

kikuday wrote:

Brian, I will send you a copy of Ryoanji for flute. I did the piece for my thesis recital at Mills. Joelle Leandre, who did the contrabass version gave me some very good advice on it!

Kiku

Thanks Kiku,

I already got it from Sheet Music Plus online. But the advice would be welcome!

BR


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#13 2006-02-02 23:31:51

Lady B Lotus
Member
From: North Carolina
Registered: 2006-01-29
Posts: 22

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

kyoreiflutes wrote:

I have to say, there aren't too many musicians I've heard play "other" shakuhachi music better than yourself, Brian. What I've heard from Shakuhachi Club is amazing, and I really should get that CD sometime. I do wish you'd play a little when you're out with the Femmes...

Kyoreiflutes,

I got to hear Tairaku perform on shakuhachi with the Violent Femmes twice (2005) here in North Carolina!!!

AMAZING!!

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#14 2006-02-03 14:33:03

kyoreiflutes
Member
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: 2005-10-27
Posts: 364
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Oh, man! Brian, why in NC and not in Seattle? We're cultured! I swear! wink

I'll just have to keep catching them every time they come, I guess. lol.

-E


"The Universe does not play favorites, and is not fair by its very Nature; Humans, however, are uniquely capable of making the world they live in fair to all."    - D.E. Lloyd

"Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."    -John Donne

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#15 2006-02-08 20:41:23

Thorsten
Member
From: London
Registered: 2005-10-17
Posts: 29
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Lady B Lotus wrote:

I got to hear Tairaku perform on shakuhachi with the Violent Femmes twice (2005) here in North Carolina!!!

AMAZING!!

Hi Tairaku -  I just came across an advert about the Violent Femmes playing in London, I think in the end of February or so and was wondering if you're in town long enough to do some shakuhachi gig here as well ??
And if that is not an option what are the chances you feel like playing a bit shaku for the London crowd ?
I am sure they will appreciate.
Never seen the Femmes playing live I have to admit so I should go anyway but don't worry I won't be holding up any signs saying 'Hi Tairaku' or demanding 'Honkyoku' either !  wink


Thorsten

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#16 2006-02-08 22:25:59

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Thorsten wrote:

Hi Tairaku -  I just came across an advert about the Violent Femmes playing in London, I think in the end of February or so and was wondering if you're in town long enough to do some shakuhachi gig here as well ??
And if that is not an option what are the chances you feel like playing a bit shaku for the London crowd ?Thorsten

I usually play shakuhachi on one or two songs with VF but we have a show in Ireland day before and Oslo day after so there will be no time to put together a show this time.

However I will be an instructor at the European Shakuhachi Summer Camp in London in July. There will be a faculty concert which I'll perform at, along with performances from fine European and Japanese shakuhachi people. For more information check out Kiku's post here:

http://shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?pid=363#p363


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#17 2006-02-09 07:23:14

Thorsten
Member
From: London
Registered: 2005-10-17
Posts: 29
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Tairaku wrote:

However I will be an instructor at the European Shakuhachi Summer Camp in London in July. There will be a faculty concert which I'll perform at, along with performances from fine European and Japanese shakuhachi people.

Yeah - I've seen a preliminary schedule of the London Shakuhachi Camp - looks like a exciting mixture of lessons and people !

Tairaku wrote:

I usually play shakuhachi on one or two songs with VF but we have a show in Ireland day before and Oslo day after so there will be no time to put together a show this time.

Sure that would be a bit hectic I suppose - well have a good gig here with the VF at the Shepherd's Bush Empire - great venue !

Th.

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#18 2006-02-13 00:01:13

Daniel Ryudo
Shihan/Kinko Ryu
From: Kochi, Japan
Registered: 2006-02-12
Posts: 355

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Hello shakuhachi outsiders...  I had my first experience playing the shakuhachi outside tradition (after nearly seven years of playing only Kinko ryu gaikyoku and honkyoku) with a Delta Blues influenced slide guitarist named Fujishima Koichi at a Kochi acoustic music venue called Mexico City  (recently demolished, but Utagoya No Nikai, its sister venue, still exists).  Check out Fuji's group The Fujii on the Net if you like the Delta sound; they have two CDs out on a label out of London.  Fuji now runs a coffee shop called Missy Sippee up in the mountains of Motoyama, Shikoku; a great place I highly recommend for a visit if you happen to be driving through Shikoku; Fuji busked for over a decade in various countries in Europe, the U.S., and other locations, alternately selling paintings in Japan and returning to Europe  to busk, and has great portraits of street musicians in his book of photos entitled Buskers. 

For the last nine years I've been playing off and on with an acoustic pop group which I cofounded called Bongo Friendee.  We've had several member changes but currently are a trio consisting of djembe, acoustic guitar, and shakuhachi/harmonica players.  We play mostly original tunes and have performed at Kochi's Earth Day Celebration for the last nine years and have occasional gigs at Kochi's Irish Pub Amontillado and other local venues.  We'll be doing some covers from The Beatles album Revolver this coming Earth Day at Kochi's Makino Botanical Gardens with another local group Veteran Hige, a duo on electric bass, electric guitar, and sanshin.
 
I also played the last several years with a rock group named Stop to Panic, headed by a Canadian guitarist, Jerry Marchisseau, who now lives in Naruto, Japan.  We had a British singer, Canadian and Scottish lead guitarists, an Australian rhythm guitarist, myself on shakuhachi and blues harp, and Japanese bass and drum players and played mostly originals and some covers -- sound setting was always a task;sometimes the shakuhachi was drowned out by the two electric guitars!   We had monthly or bi-monthly performances for a year and a half at a local rock club called J's.  The last gig we had was our one and only out of town performance, at a club called D-Box in Naruto City last spring.  All other foreign members have now left Kochi so the band has dissolved.   Last year I was in another short lived group, a trio called Tirititram, along with Juan David and Violene Carillos; shakuhachi, classical guitar, vocals, occasional percussion, the flute accompanying bossa nova and flamenco tunes; the two other members have since returned to Europe.  Shakuhachi outside tradition has been happening in Kochi for the last decade!
Cheers,          Daniel Ryudo

P.S. this was in answer to an old thread!  I've just started to look at the dates...

Last edited by Daniel Ryudo (2006-02-20 21:32:01)

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#19 2006-07-17 17:03:21

peteross
Moderator
From: San Miguel de Allende, Mexico
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 34
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Not to blow my own horn (shakuhachi), but I recorded Good by Pork Pie hat and a jazz version of Kojo-no-Tsuki over ten years ago.  I also can be heard sitting in with a jazz quartet at Mama Mia's in San Miguel de Allende playing such tunes as All Blues, Summertime, and Sunshine of Your Love.

Does anyone have the notation Neptune uses for Take Five?

Peter

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#20 2006-07-23 12:07:31

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

peteross wrote:

Not to blow my own horn (shakuhachi), but I recorded Good by Pork Pie hat and a jazz version of Kojo-no-Tsuki over ten years ago.  I also can be heard sitting in with a jazz quartet at Mama Mia's in San Miguel de Allende playing such tunes as All Blues, Summertime, and Sunshine of Your Love.

Does anyone have the notation Neptune uses for Take Five?

Peter

Yes indeed Peter Ross has made some fine recordings using jazz as a basis. Go for it Peter!

I played a duet concert with Neptune a few days ago. We played "Take Five" but used that elusive and disturbing notation known as "Western". I told John you were looking for shakuhachi notation of it and he shrugged and said, "I might have it somewhere...."


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#21 2006-07-23 17:50:09

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Hi Brian,
Where did you guys performed?
Any recording of that?

Geni

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#22 2006-07-23 19:49:23

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

geni wrote:

Hi Brian,
Where did you guys performed?
Any recording of that?

Geni

I was teaching jazz/improv at the European Shakuhachi Summer School (School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London) and John came in and gave a guest lecture. He was coincidentally in town for a gig. So we did an impromptu concert for the participants. When he played shakuhachi, I played bass. When I played shakuhachi, he played his bamboo drum. And we played some with two shakuhachi, including a duet in octaves (3.0 and 1.6) on Don Cherry's "Desireless". The rest was all jazz, blues, soul and gospel standards. It was a lot of fun. They filmed it, I don't know how that turned out. Neptune is an amazing musician. We made a lot of noise for two guys.


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#23 2006-07-24 20:38:25

geni
Performer & Teacher
From: Boston MA
Registered: 2005-12-21
Posts: 830
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

Hi Brian,
that sounds great. i wish I was there.

I have a question.

have you done any song only shakuhachi and bass? Playing the bass first (Looping) and soloing with shakuhachi?
A lot off bass players do that now.(Specially here at Berklee College) But with the Shakuhachi will be amazing.
I been checking some Jaco pastorius music and Victor Wooden .Amazing, they makes me play the bass.(Just got one:-)

Geni

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#24 2006-07-27 14:43:45

Tairaku 太楽
Administrator/Performer
From: Tasmania
Registered: 2005-10-07
Posts: 3226
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

I play cajon, but what can I say I am handicapped. 

John Sparrow


'Progress means simplifying, not complicating' : Bruno Munari

http://www.myspace.com/tairakubrianritchie

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#25 2007-04-18 08:10:11

Requiem Of The Forsaken
Member
From: Hobart, Tas
Registered: 2007-04-17
Posts: 8
Website

Re: Jazz/rock/improv

I personally wouldn't mind hearing some other different uses of the shakuhachi, does anyone know of some good people, or even more to the point, good songs to start with?

thanks, all help's appreciated.

Req.


"Let's be friends! ...If not, there's a waiting list."
"A student visited his master and said: "Master, this morning I played really well, it sounded fantastic, the best I've ever played!" The master simply replied: "Don't worry, it'll pass." - Tairaku

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